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Ranked battles? No entry for players with poor (tank specific) win rate.


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Schepel #1 Posted 23 September 2017 - 08:27 PM

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Currently, ranked battles are infested with really, really poor players whose 'play' - if you can hard camping in a corner with 0 dmg and n team damage call play, effectively stops everybody else from playing the game. Excessive camping punishes attempts at aggressive and meaningful play rather harshly. If this is a mode for 'good players', there need to be some entry rules. Whether that means you can't play ranked if you got a global w/r below 50% (you still need some people to actually play it), or you need to have at least a 50% w/r on a tank over 100 games or more is something I am undecided about, but I would strongly suggest this mode needs to be off limits for people whose quality of play drops below bot levels.

cro001 #2 Posted 23 September 2017 - 09:13 PM

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Ranked needs new ladder system, you can't start from bottom and claw your way to the top. You should start at middle and have ranks to drop down to if you suck. Also, most shitty thing is rank reset EVERY WEEK, you ranks can't even stabilize properly. Most games have seasons that last 3 months or more.

 

Grindfest is also big no-no in ranked. Players should be rewarded for skill not for time spent playing. While we're at it bonds and improved equipment are terrible rewards.



japtank #3 Posted 23 September 2017 - 10:09 PM

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Average winrate is not 50%, it's between 48 and 49 because of the draws.

And playing tier X lowers the winrate compared to someone playing lower tiers.

Just saying.

 

On topic, I agree there should be some requirements to climb up the tiers, but I guess it goes against the business model so it will happen when hell freezes.



Slind #4 Posted 23 September 2017 - 10:59 PM

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I don't know. I've seen some pro-camping and some 42% rats playing ranked, but the thing is they never go up in the ranks, as any human can if they play smart. It's a totally new ball game compared to random battles and I seem to be too aggressive with my medium or light tanks. But I found a solution that works for me: play SPGs. If my team loses, I'm often the last one alive and thus have better chances of being in the top 5. Also it requires skill *krhm* because if you just shoot enemies, you won't get much XP, you need to shoot enemies that your team can damage while their crew is stunned.

Schepel #5 Posted 24 September 2017 - 12:09 AM

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View Postjaptank, on 23 September 2017 - 10:09 PM, said:

Average winrate is not 50%, it's between 48 and 49 because of the draws.

And playing tier X lowers the winrate compared to someone playing lower tiers.

Just saying.

 

On topic, I agree there should be some requirements to climb up the tiers, but I guess it goes against the business model so it will happen when hell freezes.

 

Which is exactly why I suggested 50%. :-)

 

The rationale is that only people who are, on average, slightly beneficial to their team should be allowed entry. Obviously, ranked should *not* count towards w/r as it is generally bound to lower it.

 

Currently, ranked battles are reduced to an unholy grind with a very large proportion of players who are either literally botting or go semi AFK in the hopes somebody will carry them. Even good players simply get stuck: they can't progress out of the swamp of games which rarely allow them to make any kind of difference. Thus, the entire idea of ranked is lost: it doesn't differentiate between players anymore.

 

Up to a certain point everybody should have a shot at it, but players who do not play the game lose that 'right', IMHO. Sure, some players with great stats turn into red line camping bots as well in ranked, but I strongly believe that if you change the meta enough towards the point where active and useful play is beneficial instead of detrimental, they will generally change their behaviour.



Isharial #6 Posted 24 September 2017 - 12:49 PM

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this is only fixes a small issue

 

I think to fix the wider picture, you need a "requirement" on advancing through the tiers

 

for example


 

player owns the PZ IV H, they do 300 average damage per game, but they need 400 over 100 games (would work like MoE does) to research and buy the T6 VK

to advance from the T6 VK to the Tiger P, they'll need 600 average damage

Tiger P to VK100P, they'd need 800 average damage on their Tiger P


 

that way, it pushes really bad players (like the 500 average damage guys in Maus) to get better to advance, while also not punishing players with actual reasons (like disabilities, poor internet, laptop etc..) from still enjoying the game, they still have to get a reasonable damage average, but its not "unicum" level


 

we need some form of this I think, to stop all this nonsense with horribly bad players infesting top tiers, it would help alleviate the problems with MM a little bit



cro001 #7 Posted 24 September 2017 - 12:57 PM

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View PostIsharial, on 24 September 2017 - 12:49 PM, said:

this is only fixes a small issue

 

It doesn't  fix the issue, it buries it.



Isharial #8 Posted 24 September 2017 - 01:06 PM

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View Postcro001, on 24 September 2017 - 12:57 PM, said:

 

It doesn't  fix the issue, it buries it.

 

 yes but I tried that approach before and the majority just ignore it, so may as well say it fixes it and join them :amazed:

 



250swb #9 Posted 24 September 2017 - 01:23 PM

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It's what we need more of in the game, an official reason for an elite to swagger around pointing fingers. It's worth considering that a player with a 55% WR has only achieved it because there are an awful lot of below average players in the game. Filter the minnows out and everybody's WR and WN8 comes down, now who's going to vote for that?

Isharial #10 Posted 24 September 2017 - 01:25 PM

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View Post250swb, on 24 September 2017 - 01:23 PM, said:

It's what we need more of in the game, an official reason for an elite to swagger around pointing fingers. It's worth considering that a player with a 55% WR has only achieved it because there are an awful lot of below average players in the game. Filter the minnows out and everybody's WR and WN8 comes down, now who's going to vote for that?

 

^ this

 

but there needs to be something in place to stop the people that just stare at the sky or flora and don't actually take any part of the battle...


 

which is why a low requirement as I suggested would be a good implementation for that purpose...


 



Vortex0506 #11 Posted 24 September 2017 - 01:28 PM

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Hi, im just a no clan, no name, no one. Playing wot since early beta days. after 37k battle played i can proudly say im avg 55%, at the moment narrowly 56%. Played about 150+ ranked this week, 40% win rate till saturday, just barly grinded up to rank 4. Than on saturday, after a whole 8 hours of ranked now im sitting on rank 2 with 36.5% win rate. next to me is 2 players from KAZNA, 2 from 322, 1 from EFE, 1 from FAME. Honestly all of wots existance, i never felt so abused. The game just broke me jesterday. 2 min waiting times, Rank 5 players calling me trash every time i refuse to "spot" for the camping meds with my havies.. The correct term wuld be humiliated, is what i feel at the moment. WG changed somthing for the 2. beta with the mm system for shure, there just an unholy amount of people bellow 40%, it makes no sense, and not just the "bots". even now, just 6 points is enugh to get in to legue 1?! really? An event where finaly no one can win?..
On the bright side this time around im saved another 10.000.000 for the rest of the event, i have no chanse to be part of it. Last time i just narrowly finished in legue 1. best moment of my wot experience, now, onlye shame.
Best of luck to those, who lucked in to the winning teams, hope it will last, this time around no one stands a chanse without it.
PS.: entry to the event 100% shuld be regulated. Makes no sense to allow 800 win8 players camp in mauses and type 5 havys all over the place..

VeryRisky #12 Posted 24 September 2017 - 01:35 PM

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I'd prefer if ranked had more divisions with only 1 o Chevrons to advance at the bottom and it started at Tier 6 increasing every few divisions.   Second season you start at Tier 8 if you reached that before or T10 if you reached the very top ranks.   No weekly resets.

gunslingerXXX #13 Posted 24 September 2017 - 01:38 PM

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View PostSchepel, on 23 September 2017 - 08:27 PM, said:

Currently, ranked battles are infested with really, really poor players whose 'play' - if you can hard camping in a corner with 0 dmg and n team damage call play, effectively stops everybody else from playing the game. Excessive camping punishes attempts at aggressive and meaningful play rather harshly. If this is a mode for 'good players', there need to be some entry rules. Whether that means you can't play ranked if you got a global w/r below 50% (you still need some people to actually play it), or you need to have at least a 50% w/r on a tank over 100 games or more is something I am undecided about, but I would strongly suggest this mode needs to be off limits for people whose quality of play drops below bot levels.

Cry more please. If you are a good player you will be out of rank 0/1/2 players fast anyway.



Vortex0506 #14 Posted 24 September 2017 - 01:46 PM

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View PostgunslingerXXX, on 24 September 2017 - 12:38 PM, said:

Cry more please. If you are a good player you will be out of rank 0/1/2 players fast anyway.

 

Thats just not true this time around. I have witnessed a player from FAME officialy quite the event on the 3. day, he was stuck at rank 3 for last 30 battles. Some of the best players of the worldwild comunity are stock on win rates bellow 40%, its Fing hard to climb when you lose 2 games for every win. Thanks to all the not experienced players. Thay got raped a cupple of times, than just spend the rest of the event hideing behind the team, and hoping for miracle, everyone suffers. This event is more chalenging than tier x CW ever, its just NOT for everyone.

Long_Range_Sniper #15 Posted 24 September 2017 - 03:22 PM

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I feel your pain, but if WG have allegedly introduced ranked battles as a way to remove tier X tanks from the queue for a number of reasons then you want to drag as many out as you can.



Schepel #16 Posted 24 September 2017 - 05:35 PM

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View PostgunslingerXXX, on 24 September 2017 - 01:38 PM, said:

Cry more please. If you are a good player you will be out of rank 0/1/2 players fast anyway.

 

That is just not true. The combination of a huge number of largely inactive players (bot/afk) and the number of chevrons required to move on makes it nigh impossible to escape from the bottom. Some people will manage, but it requires an ungodly number of of games or insane luck. Or both. If this is a mode that is supposed to be as close as it gets to skilled MM, it just failed horribly.

View PostVortex0506, on 24 September 2017 - 01:46 PM, said:

 

Thats just not true this time around. I have witnessed a player from FAME officialy quite the event on the 3. day, he was stuck at rank 3 for last 30 battles. Some of the best players of the worldwild comunity are stock on win rates bellow 40%, its Fing hard to climb when you lose 2 games for every win. Thanks to all the not experienced players. Thay got raped a cupple of times, than just spend the rest of the event hideing behind the team, and hoping for miracle, everyone suffers. This event is more chalenging than tier x CW ever, its just NOT for everyone.

 

Exactly. 



Lycopersicon #17 Posted 24 September 2017 - 06:09 PM

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The idea to set a skill barrier to a minigame that features skill-based matchmaking sounds a bit, well, odd. But who knows, maybe you actually can get everyone to insanely good performances simply by kicking out the baddies.

Edited by Lycopersicon, 24 September 2017 - 06:09 PM.


Schepel #18 Posted 24 September 2017 - 07:25 PM

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View PostLycopersicon, on 24 September 2017 - 06:09 PM, said:

The idea to set a skill barrier to a minigame that features skill-based matchmaking sounds a bit, well, odd. But who knows, maybe you actually can get everyone to insanely good performances simply by kicking out the baddies.

 

If you can think of a better solution, feel free to share. Mind, I didn't suggest entry rules because of 'bad play'. The problem is that the mode is infested by players who are not playing at all.




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