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Interaction between HEAT and spaced armor (Especially on the Super Conqueror)

HEAT spaced armor game mechanics discussion wiki 9.20.1 super conqueror

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Drunken8 #1 Posted 24 September 2017 - 05:32 AM

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Hello, since the new Super Conqueror will be introduced in the upcoming update I wondered how the spaced armor will affect the gameplay of this tank.

I went to the Wiki and kept on reading and found most of the information. Things I couldn’t solve are on the end of this post, please help with it ;D

 

So basically, most players know how spaced armor is supposed to work:

-thickness affects remaining penetration

-bullet keeps on flying but loses penetration

 

I collected the information about what happens between HEAT and spaced armor (haven´t found it one piece):

  • someone shoots at you, the penetration is shuffled (+-25%)
  • no loss of penetration for HEAT over distance, no penetration of obstacles like fences
  • the shell hits your spaced armor, no normalisation of impact angle and no overmatch (this means no affect on the impact angle at all)
  • effective armor is calculated, the shell may penetrate (penetration greater eff.armor), gets absorbed (penetration smaller eff.armor) or bounces off (angle greater 85° )
  • the initial penetration of the shell is reduced by the amount it penetrated and travels on
  • for each 10cm the shell travels its penetration is reduced by 5% (no idea if from the initial value, the one after penetration or from every new 10cm or so)
  • the shell hits the main armor of the tank, again no normalisation or overmatch
  • the angle and effective armor is calculated. penetration, overmatch or bounce is used
  • if it penetrates damage is calculated (base+-25%), internal module and crew damage is equal to AP/APCR

 

This would mean:

A HEAT shell wit 330 base penetration is fired on you in a Super Conqueror:

Block Quote

330- 25% = 247,5

 

"best" case

Block Quote

247,5-20 = 227,5

 

let’s keep it simple and don’t angle the spaced armor, generally just the space between the layers of armor matters, not the thickness of the thin spaced armor. For parallel armor the calculation is the same as effective armor for "effective space"

Block Quote

227,5-(25cm/10cm*5%)=227.5-12.5% = 201.33

 

depending on how to really calculate it... 25cm is of course also an assumed value, maybe too much

Block Quote

201.33 - (127/cos(45°  ))/cos(30° ) = 201.33-207.4 = -6.07

 

This would be a hit on the upper side of the turret, coming directly from the side. Absorption, no damage

 

Of course, this is a special case with a very low roll, but especially the Super Conqueror has some locations where the main armor is much thicker under the spaced armor (for example at the upper plate, although the distance of the spaced armor is shorter).

 

What information are missing:

  • exact values for distance from spaced armor
  • a single line in the wiki is very confusing:

Block Quote

HEAT shells, like HE shells, can also pre-detonate on spaced armor or external modules."

 

(http://wiki.wargaming.net/en/Ammo). What is meant by that? Are special no damage hits on spaced armor with HEAT possible?

  • exact way of calculating the 5% per 10cm rule (maybe most important)

 

 

Please fill the missing information and correct me where i am wrong :unsure:

 

Edit:

actually my guess for the rule is distance/10cm*0.05*averagePen, this would mean in my example 25/10*0.05*330=41,25 not the calculated 26!


Edited by Drunken8, 25 September 2017 - 04:15 PM.


tajj7 #2 Posted 24 September 2017 - 07:57 AM

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Anfield did tests on it and it can block 420mm average penetration JpE100 HEAT, even on the UFP, so sites like tanks.gg don't quite calculate how spaced armour works. 

Spurtung #3 Posted 24 September 2017 - 10:06 AM

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View PostDrunken8, on 24 September 2017 - 06:32 AM, said:

  • effective armor is calculated, the shell may penetrate (penetration greater eff.armor), gets absorbed (penetration smaller eff.armor) or bounces off (angle greater 80° )

85º


Edited by Spurtung, 24 September 2017 - 10:09 AM.


Dava_117 #4 Posted 24 September 2017 - 10:20 AM

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When wiky says that both HE and HEAT can pre-detonate on obstacles and spaced armour simply mean that they explode on impact. The penetration mechanics will be applied then.

Basically if you hit an obstacle you lose the shell and if you hit spaced armour damage is reduced (HE) or penetration will be reduced by armour and air (HEAT).


Edited by Dava_117, 24 September 2017 - 10:21 AM.


Drunken8 #5 Posted 25 September 2017 - 04:14 PM

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@tajj7: interesting video. But the front is in many places already good enough angled to bounce the shell anyway. I wanted to find special cases. Especially shoots from the side or from above, snapshots or “to easy shoots to aim”.

That side scrapping is even more useful because there is no overmatching with HEAT wasn’t in my focus, but is very interesting and makes spaced armor, and side armor of course, on this tank even more effective.

 

@Spurtung: you are right, my fault :)

 

@Dava_117: sounds logic, the information about penetration loss of HEAT are separate in the wiki, I thought they mean something additional.

 



Balc0ra #6 Posted 25 September 2017 - 04:49 PM

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View Posttajj7, on 24 September 2017 - 07:57 AM, said:

Anfield did tests on it and it can block 420mm average penetration JpE100 HEAT, even on the UFP, so sites like tanks.gg don't quite calculate how spaced armour works. 

 

Key word here is average. With a 25% high roll, we are talking way past 500mm of pen. So if he rolls high enough, it's more distance it's shell can be effective after hitting the shields. As other tests I've seen, had a few JpE100 HEAT pen the cheeks. Even tho the gap behind it is fairly long. So it's not 100% impervious vs it.

 

But... if he is not using his gun depression good enough, you might as well go for the view finder on top. As it's like the SP tubes, just aim dead center and hit the armor behind it. Or the 270mm area below the gun if you can hit it. The turret ring sticking out on the side behind the toolbox above the tracks is a bit tricky head on as it's 400+ effective. But if he is side scraping, it's 320 behind the first box, 230 behind the gap between box 1 and 2. As we had no issues abusing that in a training room.






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