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KV-4 totally unplayable. please do something.


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HassenderZerhacker #1 Posted 26 September 2017 - 03:59 AM

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the KV-4 is a total failure of a tank.

 



RamRaid90 #2 Posted 26 September 2017 - 04:01 AM

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No it isn't.

Homer_J #3 Posted 26 September 2017 - 04:16 AM

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View PostHassenderZerhacker, on 26 September 2017 - 03:59 AM, said:

the KV-4 is a total failure of a tank.

 

 

You seem to have the same opinion on every tank you play.



Dundato #4 Posted 26 September 2017 - 04:20 AM

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The KV-4 is a beast

Dava_117 #5 Posted 26 September 2017 - 06:35 AM

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The only thing KV-4 would need is a penetration buff to effectively counter other new superheavys. 

In the next patch it will be reworked to HD, losing all the weakspot. So you just need the old L2P. 

Some suggestion are learn how to angle it (KV-4 is the sidescrape king) and remember that almos every bob will shoot the comander turret. It's not a weackspot so, knowing this, try to wriggle your turret a bit (if your in hulldown it can help, but KV-4 is not too good at it) so they will more likely miss it or bounce.


Edited by Dava_117, 26 September 2017 - 06:36 AM.


JocMeister #6 Posted 26 September 2017 - 06:53 AM

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View PostHomer_J, on 26 September 2017 - 04:16 AM, said:

 

You seem to have the same opinion on every tank you play.

 

He admitted he redline snipes with his Tiger II "because the only way to play it is to stay out of view range"...even posted a vid of him doing the same thing in his E75....no doubt he does the same thing in his KV4. He plays the tanks completely wrong, makes a thread about it and then report and put everyone who disagrees with him on his ignore list. Its what he does.

 

He did make a thread about how lovely the T-10 was compared to the E75 (which he made another thread about how bad it was). 42% WR 1100 DPG in the T-10...still trying to figure that one out.

 



ederfe #7 Posted 26 September 2017 - 06:54 AM

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16 games in it. You might have meant:

View PostHassenderZerhacker, on 26 September 2017 - 05:59 AM, said:

stock KV-4 is a total failure of a tank.

 

 


Edited by ederfe, 26 September 2017 - 06:57 AM.


Sfinski #8 Posted 26 September 2017 - 07:07 AM

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I ground the tank with the 175 pen gun. Worked fine. L2p pal.

Spurtung #9 Posted 26 September 2017 - 07:18 AM

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View PostHassenderZerhacker, on 26 September 2017 - 04:59 AM, said:

the KV-4 is a total failure of a tank.

 

 

Perhaps the problem lies with the player and not with the tank?

Uebergewicht #10 Posted 26 September 2017 - 07:40 AM

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While I have a soft spot for the tank, I have to say it feels like the KV has been powercrept quite serverly. Looking at the new tier 8 tanks and the current tier 8 matchmaking, what the KV-4 is up against tends to just overpower the KVs strong point, which is its armor. It can still side scrape and has hit points to spare, but listing the weak spots that can be abused is quite the long list: Against anything but low tiers, most of the front - lower plate, raised upper plate - is weak and must be hidden. The MG weakspot removal doesnt really help there if the surrounding area barely surpasses 200mm effective. Most of the turret front besides the gun mantlet is flat and not overly thick, even when angled, which is especially noticeable with the mini turret on top. That is... a whole lot of the tank. And the KV doesnt really have anything besides armor. The gun is okay with decent handling but average in alpha and dpm, not all that suited to trading. The tank is also quite slow, blind and lacks gun depression (even if it had more, the tumor and the turret placement would still hinder its hull-down capabilities a lot). Now that the VK100 is around the KV-4 looks serverly dated, as that tank out-armors, out-spots and out trades it and even gets better hull down capabilities to boot. To feel up to snuff, the KV-4 really needs something.

 

There have been a few ideas around how to buff the KV-4 without giving it ridiculous armor trademark WG - for example, by giving the long 107 basically TD-like penetration to turn the 4tress into an anti-superheavy brawler... maybe add a few hitpoints on top so the KV can tank with these, possibly a slight dpm increase, and there you go - you´ve found a niche for the tank. The penetration idea also has the benefit of not screwing over low tiers which the KV would have penned anyways, other than VK levels of armor would.

So, yeah, there are quite a few suggestions around. WG just needs to try something out or else the KV-4 might become a pure enthusiasts tank.

 

While WG has stated plans to rework the IS-4 branch a while ago, I´m already disappointed that no new infos on that surfaced for the last patch, where they reworked the IS-7, the upcoming patch and even the patch after that... however once they do get around to doing whatever they´re planning, they will most likely also do something to the KV-4, similar on how they´re reworking the tier 8-10 British heavies now. But, yeah, this might take a while... WG stated they´re mostly doing balance patches till spring, so there is hardly anything to do but to sit and wait.



Dava_117 #11 Posted 26 September 2017 - 08:03 AM

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View PostUebergewicht, on 26 September 2017 - 07:40 AM, said:

While I have a soft spot for the tank, I have to say it feels like the KV has been powercrept quite serverly. Looking at the new tier 8 tanks and the current tier 8 matchmaking, what the KV-4 is up against tends to just overpower the KVs strong point, which is its armor. It can still side scrape and has hit points to spare, but listing the weak spots that can be abused is quite the long list: Against anything but low tiers, most of the front - lower plate, raised upper plate - is weak and must be hidden. The MG weakspot removal doesnt really help there if the surrounding area barely surpasses 200mm effective. Most of the turret front besides the gun mantlet is flat and not overly thick, even when angled, which is especially noticeable with the mini turret on top. That is... a whole lot of the tank. And the KV doesnt really have anything besides armor. The gun is okay with decent handling but average in alpha and dpm, not all that suited to trading. The tank is also quite slow, blind and lacks gun depression (even if it had more, the tumor and the turret placement would still hinder its hull-down capabilities a lot). Now that the VK100 is around the KV-4 looks serverly dated, as that tank out-armors, out-spots and out trades it and even gets better hull down capabilities to boot. To feel up to snuff, the KV-4 really needs something.

 

There have been a few ideas around how to buff the KV-4 without giving it ridiculous armor trademark WG - for example, by giving the long 107 basically TD-like penetration to turn the 4tress into an anti-superheavy brawler... maybe add a few hitpoints on top so the KV can tank with these, possibly a slight dpm increase, and there you go - you´ve found a niche for the tank. The penetration idea also has the benefit of not screwing over low tiers which the KV would have penned anyways, other than VK levels of armor would.

So, yeah, there are quite a few suggestions around. WG just needs to try something out or else the KV-4 might become a pure enthusiasts tank.

 

While WG has stated plans to rework the IS-4 branch a while ago, I´m already disappointed that no new infos on that surfaced for the last patch, where they reworked the IS-7, the upcoming patch and even the patch after that... however once they do get around to doing whatever they´re planning, they will most likely also do something to the KV-4, similar on how they´re reworking the tier 8-10 British heavies now. But, yeah, this might take a while... WG stated they´re mostly doing balance patches till spring, so there is hardly anything to do but to sit and wait.

 

After the poll death I posted the result on the suggestion thread. Hope they took a look at it. Cross my fingers! :)

Aikl #12 Posted 26 September 2017 - 08:14 AM

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Abuse T10s with APCR, and it'll be over soon. :)

Baldrickk #13 Posted 26 September 2017 - 08:15 AM

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UrQuan! Where are you?

You have been summoned!

Zirakss #14 Posted 26 September 2017 - 09:07 AM

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I played it before the rework of the matchmaker. I liked it, but it was a gold magnet.

 

Some weeks ago I took it, as someone out of my clan took his KV4 and it sounded like a neat idea. With the actual match maker this thing is a XP piniata for the big boys. An he will meet them nearly every match.



UrQuan #15 Posted 26 September 2017 - 09:21 AM

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I heard KV-4!

 

Uebergewicht made a great summary on today's issue with the KV-4. It was a nice tank for a long time, thanks to it's specialization (sidescrape king) at T8 & was fairly resistant to powercreep for a long time, then VK 100 & Defender came along, making the KV-4 feel outdated & powercrept in one fell swoop. 

 

With that said, the KV-4 does have a terrible stock-grind, especially in today's T8 MM. You start with a 122mm gun with 175mm pen base. Best keep a big load of prem shells. The first thing you should go for to unlock in KV-4 is the topgun. It really makes the tank a ton better. All other possible unlocks pale compared to this. Stock engine does it's job. Topturret is nice, but weights tons, so you need the upgraded engine & suspension to prevent making your KV-4 slow. (KV-4 speed is fine in a straight line, it just bleeds speed when it turns)

In short, the most enjoyable unlock path:

- 107mm topgun

- Engine / suspension

- Turret

 

With all that said, is the KV-4 a failure of a tank? No, far from; it is still a great sidescraper & will actually be buffed in this regard when it goes HD (as Dava_117 pointed out to me before). If you know your armor layouts & have a rough idea on penetration of the guns, you can do a whole lot to hamper the enemy without even firing a single shot, as you got an reliable armor layout that you can angle easy. The KV-4 works best on medium range engagements, as this makes it much harder to hit the weakspots reliably, while the high pen topgun will still strike true on weaker parts of the enemy armor. Even without the topgun, this is the best engagements range. If you still use the 175mm gun, aim for the front wheel/rear wheel tracks & let your allies wreck the enemy.

The shape of the tank (long & narrow) also give it a unique advantage, as when it drives angled towards an enemy, the LFP/Front weaker armor gets hard to hit (narrow strip).

 

The KV-4 best location is the front, when able. Seek out locations you can sidescrape at. Avoid hulldown spots as the tank is really bad at this. You want them to show your (sidescraping) hull, not show them your weaker turret. Even in TX matches, the front is usually the best spot, thanks to the fabulous new 3-5-7 format, guaranteeing there will be T8's on the front. Just don't go 1 on 1 with TX tanks, that's a bad idea, no matter who you are.

Avoid at all costs going alone tho, KV-4 is no solo tank & really needs teammates to shine. Simply having a few teammates behind you is already a great boost, as they'll prevent you from being flanked, bolstering your capacities greatly.

 

In the end, KV-4 is a tank that is powercreeped, no denying it. But that's the case for most older tanks that haven't been updated. Fun thing is that people sometimes ignore you for the bigger alpha tanks, leaving you be, allowing you to shoot them with impunity with your 107mm 'weak alpha' gun.

 

Last but not least; KV-4 always has right of way.

 


Edited by UrQuan, 26 September 2017 - 11:10 AM.


Cobra6 #16 Posted 26 September 2017 - 09:42 AM

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No it isn't, it's pretty awesome for the HT-12 missions where you have to bounce your own HP in damage. Really, learn to angle properly.

 

Park it at roughly 45 degrees and keep going back and forth in a random fashion so you are not predictable enough for them to hit your cupola and watch even premium ammo bounce.

 

Cobra 6


Edited by Cobra6, 26 September 2017 - 09:44 AM.


arthurwellsley #17 Posted 26 September 2017 - 09:52 AM

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KV-4 = everything UrQuan says.

 

The real issue is what are WG going to do about the KV-5?

 

Lots of KV-5's in players garages that are not taken out and are gathering dust.



Quintuss #18 Posted 26 September 2017 - 09:55 AM

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View PostCobra6, on 26 September 2017 - 09:42 AM, said:

No it isn't, it's pretty awesome for the HT-12 missions where you have to bounce your own HP in damage. Really, learn to angle properly.

 

Park it at roughly 45 degrees and keep going back and forth in a random fashion so you are not predictable enough for them to hit your cupola and watch even premium ammo bounce.

 

Cobra 6

 

The only problem with that is that these days odds are 2/3 of the guys shooting you are 300 WN8 "players" that shoot HE.  I had hoped to get HT15 done while grinding VK 45B but no chance - good players don't shoot unless they are likely to pen, bad ones just spam HE from the start.

mrmoff10 #19 Posted 26 September 2017 - 09:56 AM

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I personally do a little wee when I see one charging towards me.

Dava_117 #20 Posted 26 September 2017 - 10:05 AM

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View PostQuintuss, on 26 September 2017 - 09:55 AM, said:

 

The only problem with that is that these days odds are 2/3 of the guys shooting you are 300 WN8 "players" that shoot HE.  I had hoped to get HT15 done while grinding VK 45B but no chance - good players don't shoot unless they are likely to pen, bad ones just spam HE from the start.

 

Just 3 words: Superheavy Spall Liner. Enjoy O-ho and HE100 damaging you for 90hp! :trollface:




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