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Has the mm been changed over the last year so that T-44s and its variants almost always fight in hig...


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Max_Tesla #1 Posted 29 September 2017 - 01:55 PM

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Has the mm been changed over the last year so that T-44s and its variants almost always fight in higher tiers

 

Over the last year has there been a change to mm for the T-44 and the T-54 mod1 and T-44-100 so that they almost always fight in Pure Tier 8 battle, Tier 7-9 and  tiers 8-10 battles, and very rarely tiers 6-8?

 

ALSO on a sidenote

 

When did WOT start having PURE tier battles, before i remember it would happen rarely where both sides were all the exact same tier

 

But not it happens a quite a bit.



Junglist_ #2 Posted 29 September 2017 - 01:56 PM

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MM for all tier 8s is broken not just T-44. 

Userext #3 Posted 29 September 2017 - 01:56 PM

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View PostMax_Tesla, on 29 September 2017 - 01:55 PM, said:

Has the mm been changed over the last year so that T-44s and its variants almost always fight in higher tiers

 

Over the last year has there been a change to mm for the T-44 and the T-54 mod1 and T-44-100 so that they almost always fight in Pure Tier 8 battle, Tier 7-9 and  tiers 8-10 battles, and very rarely tiers 6-8?

 

ALSO on a sidenote

 

When did WOT start having PURE tier battles, before i remember it would happen rarely where both sides were all the exact same tier

 

But not it happens a quite a bit.

 

they changed MM not sure when but it is changed. I think it came with grand battle and warbonds update. Not 100% sure though, wasn't here

Mimos_A #4 Posted 29 September 2017 - 02:01 PM

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Since they changed the mm to the template system you often get crappy matchmaking in especially tier 8 meds and heavies.



Max_Tesla #5 Posted 29 September 2017 - 02:26 PM

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View PostJunglist_, on 29 September 2017 - 01:56 PM, said:

MM for all tier 8s is broken not just T-44. 

 

I see, ok so it was not "just" me

Max_Tesla #6 Posted 29 September 2017 - 02:26 PM

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View PostUserext, on 29 September 2017 - 01:56 PM, said:

 

they changed MM not sure when but it is changed. I think it came with grand battle and warbonds update. Not 100% sure though, wasn't here

 

View PostMimos_A, on 29 September 2017 - 02:01 PM, said:

Since they changed the mm to the template system you often get crappy matchmaking in especially tier 8 meds and heavies.

 

Ok :)

 

Thanks for the replies :)



Sfinski #7 Posted 29 September 2017 - 02:27 PM

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Been 5 months now that MM has been broken. Fixing is hard...

VarzA #8 Posted 29 September 2017 - 02:34 PM

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View PostUserext, on 29 September 2017 - 01:56 PM, said:

 

they changed MM not sure when but it is changed. I think it came with grand battle and warbonds update. Not 100% sure though, wasn't here

 

In 9.18.

 

OP, basically all t8's suffer through this.

T8's now have to face higher tiers about 70-80% of the time and rarely get to be top tier vs t6-7.

This makes them difficult to grind, but if you are decent player, it can work out well for you, as you get more xp.

it's horrible if you want to make creds, as some are MM dependent and they don't have the armor or the pen to handle hgiher tiers so often.

 

T9's are also rather bad if you are grinding the tank stock and don't have the XP to freexp all the mods, you end up way to often top tier, so you get reduced xp on a tank that is gimped and does overall worse than the t8 counterpart.

if you have it fully unlocked, T9 is amazing though.



arthurwellsley #9 Posted 29 September 2017 - 02:40 PM

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@ Max_Tesla - have you been away from the game for awhile?

 

(a) WG changed the MM in patch 9.18. The relevant patch notes say;

Specific features of the new matchmaker:

  • Pattern-based matchmaker. The new matchmaker for Random Battles based on predetermined patterns. Pattern is a complex of team characteristics, including the number of vehicles at the top/middle/bottom of the team list, number of Platoons, number of light/medium/heavy tanks, SPGs, and tank destroyers. The teams are always created according to the following rule: number of vehicles at the bottom of the team list should exceed the number of vehicles at the top or middle of the team list. The priority pattern for three-tier battles is 3-5-7; the pattern for two-tier battles is 5-10. One-tier battles are allowed under conditions when other patterns are not possible.
  • Only same-tier Platoons are allowed.
  • The number of SPGs per team should not exceed three vehicles.
  • Enabled the limitation for usage of SPGs in Platoons. Selection of SPGs in the Platoon window is disabled. The limitation affects both Platoons that include only SPGs and Platoons that include other vehicle types.
  • The matchmaker considers the number of light tanks and tank destroyers.
  • The difference in the number of Platoons should not exceed one full Platoon (three players).
  • Preference of placing a player at the top/middle of the team list, if they have already played several battles at the bottom of the team list.
  • Improvements to the map selection mechanics that decreases the chance of playing on the same maps within a game session.

 

(b) The T-44, T44-100, and T54 mod 1 have all been Super Tested with considerable buffs. See for example https://thedailyboun...n-tank-changes/



Enforcer1975 #10 Posted 29 September 2017 - 02:50 PM

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View PostMax_Tesla, on 29 September 2017 - 02:26 PM, said:

 

I see, ok so it was not "just" me

 

Nope...it's broken for everyone. Some get lucky and see more games as top tier, i had maybe 4 in 30 games played today until now.

Just hope that when you are mid or even low tier that the enemy has tanks that you can actually pen. That's when i got the high score games.



RandomBlank #11 Posted 29 September 2017 - 03:02 PM

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If the MM picks a template: 3x tierX, 3x tier9, 9x tier8 - and there are 100 players of Tier X playing currently, that throws 300 Tier8 players into battle as bottom tier. If there's the same number of TierX players as Tier8 players at the same time, Tier 8 will end up in that template three times more often than Tier 10. And considering Tier 10 is in that template roughly 1/3 of the games, that makes Tier 8 to get there nearly every time.

 

Just the perfectly natural effect of the "Template MM" system. Nothing tank-specific or hand-tuned, just a crappy general idea working as designed (not equivalent to as desired).



Max_Tesla #12 Posted 29 September 2017 - 03:06 PM

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View PostSfinski, on 29 September 2017 - 02:27 PM, said:

Been 5 months now that MM has been broken. Fixing is hard...

 

Ahh :)

View PostVarzA, on 29 September 2017 - 02:34 PM, said:

 

In 9.18.

 

OP, basically all t8's suffer through this.

T8's now have to face higher tiers about 70-80% of the time and rarely get to be top tier vs t6-7.

This makes them difficult to grind, but if you are decent player, it can work out well for you, as you get more xp.

it's horrible if you want to make creds, as some are MM dependent and they don't have the armor or the pen to handle hgiher tiers so often.

 

T9's are also rather bad if you are grinding the tank stock and don't have the XP to freexp all the mods, you end up way to often top tier, so you get reduced xp on a tank that is gimped and does overall worse than the t8 counterpart.

if you have it fully unlocked, T9 is amazing though.

 

Ok :)

 

View Postarthurwellsley, on 29 September 2017 - 02:40 PM, said:

@ Max_Tesla - have you been away from the game for awhile?

 

(a) WG changed the MM in patch 9.18. The relevant patch notes say;

Specific features of the new matchmaker:

  • Pattern-based matchmaker. The new matchmaker for Random Battles based on predetermined patterns. Pattern is a complex of team characteristics, including the number of vehicles at the top/middle/bottom of the team list, number of Platoons, number of light/medium/heavy tanks, SPGs, and tank destroyers. The teams are always created according to the following rule: number of vehicles at the bottom of the team list should exceed the number of vehicles at the top or middle of the team list. The priority pattern for three-tier battles is 3-5-7; the pattern for two-tier battles is 5-10. One-tier battles are allowed under conditions when other patterns are not possible.
  • Only same-tier Platoons are allowed.
  • The number of SPGs per team should not exceed three vehicles.
  • Enabled the limitation for usage of SPGs in Platoons. Selection of SPGs in the Platoon window is disabled. The limitation affects both Platoons that include only SPGs and Platoons that include other vehicle types.
  • The matchmaker considers the number of light tanks and tank destroyers.
  • The difference in the number of Platoons should not exceed one full Platoon (three players).
  • Preference of placing a player at the top/middle of the team list, if they have already played several battles at the bottom of the team list.
  • Improvements to the map selection mechanics that decreases the chance of playing on the same maps within a game session.

 

(b) The T-44, T44-100, and T54 mod 1 have all been Super Tested with considerable buffs. See for example https://thedailyboun...n-tank-changes/

 

Yes I dont play wot much, always been on and off with long periods in between. About the T-44s being tested that is all nice, but against tier 9 and 10s, the T-44s are bad, at least for me :P

Max_Tesla #13 Posted 29 September 2017 - 03:09 PM

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View PostRandomBlank, on 29 September 2017 - 03:02 PM, said:

If the MM picks a template: 3x tierX, 3x tier9, 9x tier8 - and there are 100 players of Tier X playing currently, that throws 300 Tier8 players into battle as bottom tier. If there's the same number of TierX players as Tier8 players at the same time, Tier 8 will end up in that template three times more often than Tier 10. And considering Tier 10 is in that template roughly 1/3 of the games, that makes Tier 8 to get there nearly every time.

 

Just the perfectly natural effect of the "Template MM" system. Nothing tank-specific or hand-tuned, just a crappy general idea working as designed (not equivalent to as desired).

 

WOOOOOOO

 

Inside baseball

Impressive :)



Max_Tesla #14 Posted 29 September 2017 - 06:26 PM

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View PostRandomBlank, on 29 September 2017 - 03:02 PM, said:

If the MM picks a template: 3x tierX, 3x tier9, 9x tier8 - and there are 100 players of Tier X playing currently, that throws 300 Tier8 players into battle as bottom tier. If there's the same number of TierX players as Tier8 players at the same time, Tier 8 will end up in that template three times more often than Tier 10. And considering Tier 10 is in that template roughly 1/3 of the games, that makes Tier 8 to get there nearly every time.

 

Just the perfectly natural effect of the "Template MM" system. Nothing tank-specific or hand-tuned, just a crappy general idea working as designed (not equivalent to as desired).

 

Does that mean that for Tier 7 and Tier 6, that they have "good" matches more often, because they would be top tier more often?

Or?

RinTin_NL #15 Posted 29 September 2017 - 06:38 PM

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Yes MM for tier 8 is broken, garbage!!! :justwait:

Aikl #16 Posted 29 September 2017 - 06:43 PM

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View PostSfinski, on 29 September 2017 - 01:27 PM, said:

Been 5 months now that MM has been broken. Fixing is hard...

 

Are you assuming that WG actually wants to fix it? I've seen some half-arsed answers on the topic, but no definite plans. They seem more occupied with ensuring that each team gets the same kind of tanks (no FCM 50t vs Defender, for instance), which is hardly the main problem in the matchmaker anyway. For what it's worth, 3-5-7 likely is a brilliant choice for WG. T9/10 is beneficial to play, T8 gets harder, more reliance on premium ammoif you want to get stuff done. Less so for the players - except those who live by the occasional roflstomp they get once a week or so by being top-tier (in their Defender, Maus, or whatever) and get to maul T6-8 tanks en masse.

 

I don't like 3-5-7, and frankly see no real benefit with it. Still, even the forum poll, comprising mainly above-average players (I checked the average winrate per answer on what kind of 'pattern' people preferred), suggested that a lot don't really mind it, or think that it at least isn't worse than before (which I can see, to some degree). We can to some degree assume that above-average players are worse off in the new MM pattern, so overall I'm guessing that a lot of players like it. If a majority of players like it, and that happens to cover the groups that spend the most of the game, I'm guessing WG don't see any reason to adjust it.

Personally I'm not sure if WoT would be that interesting if there wasn't a fair amount of really good players in it. I really enjoyed Counter-Strike servers with a somewhat 'hardcore' audience. Frustrating in the beginning, but a ton of fun to know that you're (sometimes) beating the very best in their own game.

 

Anyway, many also seem to find it frustrating to (effectively) be the main force in a battle only 20% of the time (on paper, that is), and to hope that the three top-tier tanks are somewhat balanced in terms of combat ability and player skill - not to mention where they go on the map. It's so fudging fun when they don't meet each other - means that your T8 is very unlikely to actually see the seven other T8s in a match (which are most likely camping in base regardless, because hey, map design!). The variance introduced with forcing less top-tier tanks is messing more with 'per-battle balance' than "class imbalance" is.

 

/rant


Edited by Aikl, 29 September 2017 - 06:47 PM.


Johnba98 #17 Posted 29 September 2017 - 11:22 PM

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Well for me the mm definitely was improved. I remember games with my tier 6's that the whole team except 3 guys including me were tier 8. As for tier 8 mm broken i have ho idea since i don't own any tier 8.

Edited by Johnba98, 29 September 2017 - 11:23 PM.


japtank #18 Posted 29 September 2017 - 11:45 PM

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If the gap between tier VIII and IX-X wasn't so large, the system would be perfect, honestly.

What this game needs is a global rebalance from tier I up.

 

But it's a lot of work, something a company making millions/month probably can't afford :)



Max_Tesla #19 Posted 30 September 2017 - 01:39 AM

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View PostJohnba98, on 29 September 2017 - 11:22 PM, said:

Well for me the mm definitely was improved. I remember games with my tier 6's that the whole team except 3 guys including me were tier 8. As for tier 8 mm broken i have ho idea since i don't own any tier 8.

 

Yeah I am wondering if tiers 6 and 7 now have it "easier" than before. Not that such a thing is bad, just wondering if it is so.

Rati_Festa #20 Posted 30 September 2017 - 03:55 PM

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Tier 7 is ok, 6 can be a bit of a nightmare due to the influx of t34-85m wg introduced. Quite a lot of stat padders driving them and they can be hard to beat in standard t6s.

 

Tier 9 is an option too as u can see 3 t10s but u are in a far better tank to deal with them.






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