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My ceedecee is killing mee

AMX CDC halp how to

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Lycopersicon #1 Posted 01 October 2017 - 06:27 PM

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...and nobody else.

 

I know there are plenty of "buff the CDC now" threads (about once a week I believe); this here is not supposed to be one of them. Let us be a little constructive for a change: perhaps a knowledgable player cares to give advice how to actually make this thing work. So far, in my 50 games with this tank, I would have done better by playing T-34-85 in the same matchups. I know the ultimate answer is that I suck and the ultimate advice is to play tier 2 (as a passing unicum with unfamiliar to me Slavish-sounding name kindly suggested in a lovely PM today), but I kinda suck a little less in some other tanks, so there seems to be some unused space. Basically, I either get killed immediately, or I avoid getting killed immediately and scratch my butt while watching my team either melting away or wiping enemies out of the map - with the same result for me in all three scenarios. Shots from distance never seem to hit, I get spotted miraculously, do 1:3 trades and generally keep offering myself for a tasty snack to anyone who bothers to take it.

 

Below are some typical games from my today's portfolio; not the worst (had some zero-damage ones, too), not the best (i.e. I omitted the one where I picked up a Lehväslaiho in three minutes and then found a way to drown myself in Erlenberg - apparantly the tank thought we had already done more than our quota). Oh, and I watched everything in YT about this tank by LemmingRush and Quickybaby; apparantly to no avail.

 

http://wotreplays.eu/site/3856544

Till this moment, I am amazed at how this game went: fluffed an important shot, got spotted by who knows what, and attempting to do something, was freely shot at by the entire enemy team. I have no idea what I could have done better.

 

http://wotreplays.eu/site/3856540

Another one of the same theme: easily spotted over pretty big distance (the crewmen had about 90% camouflage at that moment), happily thrashed by all their campers (why the hell are they always loaded and pre-aimed at me?), then sulked a bit and eventually found a way to shoot a few times. Four shots worth of damage, relatively good game.

 

http://wotreplays.eu/site/3856493

Short and sweet: attempted to make myself useful, even got to shoot a few enemies (and this time hit them!), but got stomped anyway. Cannot imagine what I could have done better, apart from realising earlier that the Pilot had line of sight with me.

 

http://wotreplays.eu/site/3856489

Noted the lack of TDs, decided not to get squished first this time and became a bush-humper myself, but didn't find much to shoot and didn't hit what I shot, so the team melted away without me.

 

http://wotreplays.eu/site/3856487

I remember there was a time when I had a good game in Prokhorovka pretty much automatically, but somehow, the magic is gone and last few months, I have only had disasters there. This is yet another.

 

Yeah, enough, I guess. And I apologise in advance, but I am planning to keep playing CDC (and other T3+ tanks) :P


Edited by Lycopersicon, 02 October 2017 - 07:38 AM.


gunslingerXXX #2 Posted 01 October 2017 - 07:22 PM

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View PostLycopersicon, on 01 October 2017 - 06:27 PM, said:

Basically, I either get killed immediately, or I avoid getting killed immediately and scratch my butt while watching my team either melting away or wiping enemies out of the map - with the same result for me in all three scenarios. Shots from distance never seem to hit, I get spotted miraculously, do 1:3 trades and generally keep offering myself for a tasty snack to anyone who bothers to take it.

I have the same problem (or worse, did not watch replays). 

My current tactic is to rush to a place where I know I can put in a shot at enemies getting into position. After the first shot I often don't know where to go. I do know staying in a position where you are spotted is killing.



IncandescentGerbil #3 Posted 01 October 2017 - 07:26 PM

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Sold mine ages ago. It would probably be even worse now. Was never as fast as it was supposed to be, gun was a bit crap, and it was massive with no armour. With a good team it could be useful, but how often does that happen.
One for the elite players I think.

mortalsatsuma #4 Posted 01 October 2017 - 07:48 PM

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Just watched Foch's updated review on the CDC where he explains that WG pretty much eviscerated this tank in the soft stats. For example its power to weight ratio of 35 on paper is just a total lie thanks to it having velcro tracks and its gun dispersion is worse than most heavy tanks such as the IS-3/IS-7. 

IncandescentGerbil #5 Posted 01 October 2017 - 08:03 PM

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View Postmortalsatsuma, on 01 October 2017 - 07:48 PM, said:

Just watched Foch's updated review on the CDC where he explains that WG pretty much eviscerated this tank in the soft stats. For example its power to weight ratio of 35 on paper is just a total lie thanks to it having velcro tracks and its gun dispersion is worse than most heavy tanks such as the IS-3/IS-7. 

Yeah, WG's soft stats policy is a joke. Others have said it would perhaps be classed as fraud in certain parts of the world. I'm no legal expert so can't comment on that, but if a tank gets edited up the edited by its soft stats, you should be told as much when you purchase it.



Strappster #6 Posted 01 October 2017 - 08:28 PM

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I think part of the problem lies with the soft stats that could really use some positive tweaks and part with the camo pattern that erects an enormous flashing neon arrow above your tank whenever you pop over a ridge because everyone suddenly sees the softest target outside of arty appear. 

 

Yet whenever I shoot at a CDC, my HE fails to pen so I only get half damage. Sure, that seems fun and engaging ... :sceptic:



Lycopersicon #7 Posted 01 October 2017 - 08:52 PM

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View PostStrappster, on 01 October 2017 - 09:28 PM, said:

I think part of the problem lies with the soft stats that could really use some positive tweaks and part with the camo pattern that erects an enormous flashing neon arrow above your tank whenever you pop over a ridge because everyone suddenly sees the softest target outside of arty appear. 

 

Yet whenever I shoot at a CDC, my HE fails to pen so I only get half damage. Sure, that seems fun and engaging ... :sceptic:

 

Camouflage is indeed disappointing; with (now) 100% concealment skill, the client shows me 18.07 on the move, which (among medium tanks) is only better than Germans and Shermans. CDC is big, indeed, so lousy camo is understandable; I guess we just automatically expect a squishy tank to have usable camo rating.

 

This makes me wonder whether I should perhaps declare the camouflage thing hopeless and go boldly for view range and repair as second skills when I reset the commander and loader for their perks (the crew is all for CDC for the foreseeable future, as i am through the French low-tier meds and will not get the high-tier meds anytime soon).

 

As for shooting a CDC with HE, it is mostly wise but can, indeed, backfire. It has big tracks and its turret front is sloped enough to not let most HE through. However, I still have fond memories of a CDC player who for some reason called me a "gold boob" (sic!) when I had pumped its arse full of HE from my KV-13. It went pop pretty quickly.



IncandescentGerbil #8 Posted 01 October 2017 - 11:12 PM

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View PostSergeant_Antaro_Chronus, on 01 October 2017 - 11:07 PM, said:

Edited

great use of Edited there. Ffs what is wrong with you people? Heard it on TV and think it's cool? 


Edited by Asklepi0s, 02 October 2017 - 01:32 PM.
This post has been edited by the moderation team due to inappropriate remarks


japtank #9 Posted 01 October 2017 - 11:50 PM

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The Chasseur de Chars is one of my favourite mediums but since tier VIII only see VIII+ it's not great anymore.

The gun sucks big time, it still dies to arty and it gets ammoracked too often.

 

The new MM and too many big alpha tanks killed it, unfortunately.

With a gun handling buff it would be workable though.



_EXODUZ_ #10 Posted 02 October 2017 - 12:02 AM

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Replay 1 - Cliff

Thought process, countdown: Top tier (gotta carry attitude), open map,1 T6 arty, a similar mix of meds, heavies and td's. E3 is a good option considering your mobility, an opportunity to do early damage into passing tanks by gaining key position, backup plan - stone behind F2. F6 seems like a safe option if there is no one else going to E3.

 

Then I started watching what you did there. :amazed: You decide to go up the cliff with a tank that get easily spotted. You could easily poke and snipe enemy tanks from the same position. You had tanks on your left, you had tanks pushing right, all you had to do is to control that middle area. You play like a headless chicken with no game plan. When you poke you don't pull back behind the bush when you fire. You could easily feast on all those low tiers. Easy 2k damage game in worst case scenario.

 

Replay 2 - Arctic Region.

On this map and with that MM you should be a support tank. Meaning first you look where your team goes. You go middle, ok. That could be a good possibility to spot the north side, but you have 3 other tanks with you. That's already bad, you should consider turning around and take G1 to control vision on the 1 line, there's a bush there which you can use for some extra camo. Ok, you decide to spot and snipe. Once again, 3 other tanks are doing that, meaning they if they get spotted - people will fire there. That's exactly what happens, you loose all your HP because you took a bad position, you didn't adjust. And you call that a good game. Seeing your heavies were doing a good job you could push forward when you had HP, maybe you'd take damage, but you would take it while getting to good positions where you can do damage.

 

Replay 3 - Tundra

Going hill is ok, but you should play as support. You can only go there for some early damage if someone goes up. Instead you decide to go up seeing that the enemy team has top tier meds that will gladly feast on you, oh and 2 clickers as well. You're lucky to put some shots into Pilot since he made a mistake. Then you die to a Batchat who should've actually killed you earlier. Basically, you should've safely dropped down after dealing with Pilot 1.

 

After seeing 3 replays of yours I can clear say you don't have any game plan nor situational awareness. You need to start thinking if you want to do better. Pretty sure it's not the problem with CDC. Your other T8's are on the same level, just a bit more forgiving.

 

 



Sergeant_Antaro_Chronus #11 Posted 02 October 2017 - 12:43 AM

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View PostIncandescentGerbil, on 02 October 2017 - 12:12 AM, said:

great use of cancer there. Ffs what is wrong with you people? Heard it on TV and think it's cool? 

 

Oops, excuse me. I forgot that it's late 2017 and we are getting to 2018 when everyone get offended by every little thing on the internet. 

Matcorr #12 Posted 02 October 2017 - 02:18 AM

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I thought I was just getting really unlucky with my CDC, it's good to see everyone else struggling with it. I have an FCM too, can't even remember the last time I played it. I've been considering selling FCM to get the 183 before it's replaced but Idk, that crapcost real money.

Edited by Matcorr, 02 October 2017 - 02:21 AM.


Mike_Mckay #13 Posted 02 October 2017 - 03:58 AM

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TBH I always treated the CDC as a lightly armoured TD/light tank variant


Just because it says its a medium doesn't mean it should be played like a type 59 or pershing per se, same as the british heavies aren't front line brawlers either


So I have tended to have my best games in the CDC by playing like a pure support TD from the back until the other team has spread out/been thinned out and then used the speed and fairly good pen towards the end game as you will often see lights doing

Its never seemed as mobile as it should be on paper but as the game thins out and you start to have isolated heavies, TDs and artys it can work fairly well, but like many tanks its situationally dependant on the map and how the two teams deploy, some maps end up being mostly brawls so youre reliant on meat shields and the enemy not being able to just charge you and some games move so quickly you cant play support as the front line charges you lol

But most tanks have some degree of being situational, but the CDC is probably worse than many, certainly most meds I reckon

When it clicks though it can be fun, but as I haven't really knuckled down with the French line since I got them to tier 6 I haven't played it much as its certainly not a "go to" tank for a fun game

Its also like some other premiums more of a skill dependant tank than a fun plinker, and requires a very specific type of game play to work well and there are some people who do very well in them and I have seen a couple with 2 and 3 MOEs on them
 

Lycopersicon #14 Posted 02 October 2017 - 06:15 AM

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View Post_EXODUZ_, on 02 October 2017 - 01:02 AM, said:

Replay 1 - Cliff

Thought process, countdown: Top tier (gotta carry attitude), open map,1 T6 arty, a similar mix of meds, heavies and td's. E3 is a good option considering your mobility, an opportunity to do early damage into passing tanks by gaining key position, backup plan - stone behind F2. F6 seems like a safe option if there is no one else going to E3.

 

Then I started watching what you did there. :amazed: You decide to go up the cliff with a tank that get easily spotted. You could easily poke and snipe enemy tanks from the same position. You had tanks on your left, you had tanks pushing right, all you had to do is to control that middle area. You play like a headless chicken with no game plan. When you poke you don't pull back behind the bush when you fire. You could easily feast on all those low tiers. Easy 2k damage game in worst case scenario.

 

That was the initial plan, but then I somehow had a reveation of the enemy team lined up and preaimed at those rather obvious bushes and me being out of the game straight away. Admittedly still better; the hilltop didn't work at all.

 

View Post_EXODUZ_, on 02 October 2017 - 01:02 AM, said:

 

Replay 2 - Arctic Region.

On this map and with that MM you should be a support tank. Meaning first you look where your team goes. You go middle, ok. That could be a good possibility to spot the north side, but you have 3 other tanks with you. That's already bad, you should consider turning around and take G1 to control vision on the 1 line, there's a bush there which you can use for some extra camo. Ok, you decide to spot and snipe. Once again, 3 other tanks are doing that, meaning they if they get spotted - people will fire there. That's exactly what happens, you loose all your HP because you took a bad position, you didn't adjust. And you call that a good game. Seeing your heavies were doing a good job you could push forward when you had HP, maybe you'd take damage, but you would take it while getting to good positions where you can do damage.

 

I don't think I have ever been to G1 in any vehicle. Can one even shoot anything from there apart from enemies pushing around the C1 corner?

 

View Post_EXODUZ_, on 02 October 2017 - 01:02 AM, said:

 

Replay 3 - Tundra

Going hill is ok, but you should play as support. You can only go there for some early damage if someone goes up. Instead you decide to go up seeing that the enemy team has top tier meds that will gladly feast on you, oh and 2 clickers as well. You're lucky to put some shots into Pilot since he made a mistake. Then you die to a Batchat who should've actually killed you earlier. Basically, you should've safely dropped down after dealing with Pilot 1.

 

 

The problem is, what else should one do there? The hill seems to me like the only place where I could do anything at all; the alternative would be sitting somewhere away and waiting for the game to end without my participation.

 

Thank you for the, effort.


Edited by Lycopersicon, 03 October 2017 - 01:21 PM.


Hamsterkicker #15 Posted 02 October 2017 - 07:44 AM

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I kind off use it like a light.. I try to get into a good spotting location (meaning, I can provide vision and i can fall back "safely" if needed) then I indeed watch how the game unfolds and move around the map to support the heavies as much as I can and/or retreat to a forward defensive position to provide view range for the TD's..

 

So, for example on Prokorovka I either go play in the middle of the field poking the ridge and moving a lot or to the hill but what I will do depends on how the team deploys..



IncandescentGerbil #16 Posted 02 October 2017 - 10:10 AM

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View PostSergeant_Antaro_Chronus, on 02 October 2017 - 12:43 AM, said:

 

Oops, excuse me. I forgot that it's late 2017 and we are getting to 2018 when everyone get offended by every little thing on the internet. 

No I get offended by ignorant twats who think they are being edgy. But thanks for providing me with the inspiration I needed to steer clear of this forum for a while, anyway. 


Edited by IncandescentGerbil, 02 October 2017 - 10:17 AM.


SirTogII #17 Posted 02 October 2017 - 11:23 AM

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Haven't watched the replays so can't comment on specifics, but the CDC is hardly played at all by any good players and there's a reason for that. It's just not good or fun enough. It's too big to be a paper medium and not punching hard enough. Even when it was released it wasn't better than mediocre and since then it's been screwed by power creep, MM and buffs to its competitors. Compare the CDC to a Lorraine and you realise just how bad it is.
But you have it and want to play it so...use it as an opportunistic pain in the [edited]. You need to watch the minimap more than the screen. You need to know EXACTLY what to do after having seen the teams. Follow 50-100m behind your heavies or 200m behind your lights and shoot from relative safety at the start. Towards the end, use your hp to trade against wounded tanks and 1-shots.
The difference between too aggressive and too passive is razor thin with this tank and you won't carry any game regardless of MM. You can have good games if your enemies are busy shooting other things but it requires your team to be decent and your positioning to be spot on.

The best thing about the CDC is that if you can master it you'll have a hell of a lot more fun in paper meds like the Amx30 line or the Leopards, which actually have cammo and a gun that hurts. Again, the minimap and the spotting circles are vital to your success.

BravelyRanAway #18 Posted 02 October 2017 - 11:56 AM

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View PostSergeant_Antaro_Chronus, on 01 October 2017 - 11:43 PM, said:

 

Oops, excuse me. I forgot that it's late 2017 and we are getting to 2018 when everyone get offended by every little thing on the internet. 

 

Don't mind him....he doesn't understand it's used by people with a small vocabulary.....carry on.

_EXODUZ_ #19 Posted 02 October 2017 - 12:22 PM

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View PostLycopersicon, on 02 October 2017 - 06:15 AM, said:

 

That was the initial plan, but then I somehow had a reveation of the enemy team lined up and preaimed at those rather obvious bushes and me being out of the game straight away. Admittedly still better; the hilltop didn't work at all.

There are plenty of stones for cover there.

 

I don't think I have ever been to G1 in any vehicle. Can one even shoot anything from there apart from enemies pushing around the C1 corner?

That's why you need to have really good positioning skills in bad tanks like that. You can shoot the whole 1-2 line from there, but once again you can sit there for a long time. It's a chance to put 2 shots of damage and take nothing in return.

 

The problem is, what else should one do there? The hill seems to me like the only place where I could do anything at all; the alternative would be sitting somewhere away and waiting for the game to end without my participation.

See, you don't know what else you could do cause you died. Perhaps, if you didn't go hill you could snipe on their tanks that poke on the hill. There are like 5-6 firing lanes there.

 

And I agree with

SirTogII






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