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Suggestion: Alternative buff to the FV4202.


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tajj7 #1 Posted 02 October 2017 - 01:05 PM

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So apparently, one of the weakest premium tanks in the game, which was due to get buffed in 9.20.1 with improved turret armour and more engine power, was OP on the test. 

 

I won't get into how ludicrous that is, but it is what it is, this 'balance' team at WG have some pretty. let's call it interesting, views on the game (like TVP VTU against a Defender)/

 

Now I've seen other say why not just buff the gun handling and DPM, but that doesn't really fix the issue, the tank still has stupidly low alpha for a tier 8, and it would just become another generic 230-250 alpha tier 8 medium that goes 40-50kph and has 1.8-2k DPM like all the rest and would be underpowered like most tier 8 mediums are.

 

So how about instead give it the 105mm back it had when it was a tier 10.  The 105mm L7 was designed to fit into the same turret mountings as the 20 lber so pretty much any 20lber armed tank can be upgraded to a 105mm, so even though the 'historical' FV4202 had a 20lber it could have easily had a 105mm.

 

Now of course giving it the exact same 105 is had would be overkill and would encroach on the Charioteer, so why not a 105mm with around 235 - 240mm penetration AP (could do APCR also) and then 210mm HESH round like the Cent 7/1 has. Yes there would be no high pen premium round, hence the high standard AP round (still only 10mm or so more than it's current pen or the Lorraine' standard pen), keep the gun handling and DPM exactly the same as it is now. So you would have about 4.6 rounds per minute, for around a 13s base reload. 

 

Keep the platform as it is now, with the dodgy turret and low hp, so the tank would become something inbetween a Charioteer and an M4 Rev. It would have a different playstyle to most other tier 8 meds and be truer to the old tier 10 FV4202. 



HundeWurst #2 Posted 02 October 2017 - 01:17 PM

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It could work since Alpha >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> DPM

There are various ways to get the tank into a decent state. This might be one of them.

 

Its still way better than stupidly overbuffing the turretarmor and calling it a day after that.



brumbarr #3 Posted 02 October 2017 - 01:18 PM

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Hmm, interesting, however i think you are overdoing it a bit and you would make m4 rev pointless and espescially the stg.
I would:
- nerf aimtime to 0.1 slower than m4.
- make the base reload the same as the stg.
- nerf acc to the same as m4 rev.

 

Or alternativly, give it 320 alpha, buff  dpm to 2k and buff handling by 20%.
 


Edited by brumbarr, 02 October 2017 - 01:21 PM.


shane73tank #4 Posted 02 October 2017 - 01:22 PM

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Either change to how it deals damage would be nice, keep it to be accurate when fully aimed as it's niche, a more mobile panther 2 with gun depression

 

would prefer these changes than turret buff personally 



Dava_117 #5 Posted 02 October 2017 - 01:38 PM

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Like the idea, but alfa should be 320, otherwise it would outgun heavys with same caliber (KV-4, T32, Tiger II, O-Ho...).

SeekerKuba #6 Posted 02 October 2017 - 01:42 PM

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390 dmg and 220 pen as standard (235-240 could be a bit too much) would be nice... however i dont think hesh are good for this game. Its  bassicaly high penetration HE ammo. I was using hesh on cent tier 9 and charioter and it was fun as hell i admit it, but in some situation it works like much better HE. 

Arty/ japanese derps / both FV hesh rounds are pretty sick, they negate armor which is a bad thing at least in my opinion...

 

...but in general idea of 105 gun is nice thing ;)



Gkirmathal #7 Posted 02 October 2017 - 02:07 PM

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View Posttajj7, on 02 October 2017 - 12:05 PM, said:

 

Keep the platform as it is now, with the dodgy turret and low hp, so the tank would become something inbetween a Charioteer and an M4 Rev. It would have a different playstyle to most other tier 8 meds and be truer to the old tier 10 FV4202. 

 

This idea could be an extra one in the basket of solutions to choose from for this tier 8....although I think the L7 ammo&pen characteristics are still a bit too much for a tier 8 med. A non historical prototype 105 L7, with 320 alpha, would be more fitting.
Heck even giving it a 32-pdr would also make it more unique.

 

But this is the same issue as with most Soviet 100mm medium guns around tier 8, a generic 250 alpha.


Edited by Gkirmathal, 02 October 2017 - 02:07 PM.


Search_Warrant #8 Posted 02 October 2017 - 02:10 PM

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Like the idea. i want it... GIVE ME THAT HESH!

arthurwellsley #9 Posted 02 October 2017 - 02:12 PM

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View Posttajj7, on 02 October 2017 - 12:05 PM, said:

So apparently, one of the weakest premium tanks in the game, which was due to get buffed in 9.20.1 with improved turret armour and more engine power, was OP on the test. 

 

I won't get into how ludicrous that is, but it is what it is, this 'balance' team at WG have some pretty. let's call it interesting, views on the game (like TVP VTU against a Defender)/

 

Now I've seen other say why not just buff the gun handling and DPM, but that doesn't really fix the issue, the tank still has stupidly low alpha for a tier 8, and it would just become another generic 230-250 alpha tier 8 medium that goes 40-50kph and has 1.8-2k DPM like all the rest and would be underpowered like most tier 8 mediums are.

 

So how about instead give it the 105mm back it had when it was a tier 10.  The 105mm L7 was designed to fit into the same turret mountings as the 20 lber so pretty much any 20lber armed tank can be upgraded to a 105mm, so even though the 'historical' FV4202 had a 20lber it could have easily had a 105mm.

 

Now of course giving it the exact same 105 is had would be overkill and would encroach on the Charioteer, so why not a 105mm with around 235 - 240mm penetration AP (could do APCR also) and then 210mm HESH round like the Cent 7/1 has. Yes there would be no high pen premium round, hence the high standard AP round (still only 10mm or so more than it's current pen or the Lorraine' standard pen), keep the gun handling and DPM exactly the same as it is now. So you would have about 4.6 rounds per minute, for around a 13s base reload. 

 

Keep the platform as it is now, with the dodgy turret and low hp, so the tank would become something inbetween a Charioteer and an M4 Rev. It would have a different playstyle to most other tier 8 meds and be truer to the old tier 10 FV4202. 

 

Any moderators reading who might "report back to WG". Please suggest this!

Balc0ra #10 Posted 02 October 2017 - 02:27 PM

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Well they only said they removed the buffs to compare it, and then decide what buffs would stick on live. No 100% sure thing on anything yet.

 

Then again even with the buffs, the 20 pdr is and always will be the weakest aspect of the tank. 20 pdr is bad on tier 8 with the exception of the AT-15. WG even thought the 20 pdr was so crap, that they removed it from the HT's and replaced it with a 32 pdr "94mm" with 220 pen and 280 alpha, vs the 215 pen and 250 alpha it has on the AT line. Even that gun would improve the FV. But the 105 with pen in the 220 to 230 area and 320 alpha. As 390 would be a tad to much vs even tier 6 tanks. 



brumbarr #11 Posted 02 October 2017 - 02:34 PM

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View PostBalc0ra, on 02 October 2017 - 02:27 PM, said:

Well they only said they removed the buffs to compare it, and then decide what buffs would stick on live. No 100% sure thing on anything yet.

 

Then again even with the buffs, the 20 pdr is and always will be the weakest aspect of the tank. 20 pdr is bad on tier 8 with the exception of the AT-15. WG even thought the 20 pdr was so crap, that they removed it from the HT's and replaced it with a 32 pdr "94mm" with 220 pen and 280 alpha, vs the 215 pen and 250 alpha it has on the AT line. Even that gun would improve the FV. But the 105 with pen in the 220 to 230 area and 320 alpha. As 390 would be a tad to much vs even tier 6 tanks. 

Why is 390 too much? Most heavys have 390 , and 3 meds already have so aswell.



Dava_117 #12 Posted 02 October 2017 - 02:39 PM

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View Postbrumbarr, on 02 October 2017 - 02:34 PM, said:

Why is 390 too much? Most heavys have 390 , and 3 meds already have so aswell.

 

No, most heavy have 320 alpha. The ones with 390+ are 6, but just 3 have good pen (IS-3, T34 and Defender)

Edited by Dava_117, 02 October 2017 - 02:39 PM.


Bucifel #13 Posted 02 October 2017 - 03:04 PM

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why not some unique alpha damage?...

if they buff LTs alpha again and 360 alpha guns wont exist anymore....why not on this? :)

 

2 problems are solved in this way..:

1. his underperforming

2. will be something special


Edited by Bucifel, 02 October 2017 - 03:05 PM.


Search_Warrant #14 Posted 02 October 2017 - 03:13 PM

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View PostBucifel, on 02 October 2017 - 02:04 PM, said:

why not some unique alpha damage?...

if they buff LTs alpha again and 360 alpha guns wont exist anymore....why not on this? :)

 

2 problems are solved in this way..:

1. his underperforming

2. will be something special

 

OK by that logic give them a BL-10.2 760 damage. hey its not a usual number and the guns way different right? will be something special :trollface:

Bucifel #15 Posted 02 October 2017 - 05:53 PM

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View PostSearch_Warrant, on 02 October 2017 - 03:13 PM, said:

 

OK by that logic give them a BL-10.2 760 damage. hey its not a usual number and the guns way different right? will be something special :trollface:

 

lets still keep it in decent parameters and adequate for his tier, class and role :P

tajj7 #16 Posted 02 October 2017 - 07:04 PM

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View PostDava_117, on 02 October 2017 - 12:38 PM, said:

Like the idea, but alfa should be 320, otherwise it would outgun heavys with same caliber (KV-4, T32, Tiger II, O-Ho...).

 

M4 Rev already does this, so does Charioteer. They have 105s with 390 alpha. 

 

View PostSeekerKuba, on 02 October 2017 - 12:42 PM, said:

390 dmg and 220 pen as standard (235-240 could be a bit too much) would be nice... however i dont think hesh are good for this game. Its  bassicaly high penetration HE ammo. I was using hesh on cent tier 9 and charioter and it was fun as hell i admit it, but in some situation it works like much better HE. 

Arty/ japanese derps / both FV hesh rounds are pretty sick, they negate armor which is a bad thing at least in my opinion...

 

...but in general idea of 105 gun is nice thing ;)

 

 

105 HESH doesn't do much damage when it doesn't pen, it does like 150-200 at best. 

 

View Postbrumbarr, on 02 October 2017 - 12:18 PM, said:

Hmm, interesting, however i think you are overdoing it a bit and you would make m4 rev pointless and espescially the stg.
I would:
- nerf aimtime to 0.1 slower than m4.
- make the base reload the same as the stg.
- nerf acc to the same as m4 rev.

 

Or alternativly, give it 320 alpha, buff  dpm to 2k and buff handling by 20%.
 

 

Rev has more DPM, velocity, a premium round and better soft stats. Same aim time as it would probably be fine. 

 

STG DPM is too low IMO, I think overall that tank is a little weak. 

 



brumbarr #17 Posted 02 October 2017 - 07:55 PM

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View Posttajj7, on 02 October 2017 - 07:04 PM, said:

 

M4 Rev already does this, so does Charioteer. They have 105s with 390 alpha. 

 

 

105 HESH doesn't do much damage when it doesn't pen, it does like 150-200 at best. 

 

 

Rev has more DPM, velocity, a premium round and better soft stats. Same aim time as it would probably be fine. 

 

STG DPM is too low IMO, I think overall that tank is a little weak. 

 

 

Rev wil have a bit better gun hanlding and 0,5s better reload, and for that its a bigger target, way less armor,  much bigger target and no hesh shell that has more pen than his standard round.

Dr_ownape #18 Posted 03 October 2017 - 08:46 AM

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all i want is more speed

Dava_117 #19 Posted 03 October 2017 - 08:59 AM

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View Posttajj7, on 02 October 2017 - 07:04 PM, said:

 

M4 Rev already does this, so does Charioteer. They have 105s with 390 alpha. 

 

 

105 HESH doesn't do much damage when it doesn't pen, it does like 150-200 at best. 

 

 

Rev has more DPM, velocity, a premium round and better soft stats. Same aim time as it would probably be fine. 

 

STG DPM is too low IMO, I think overall that tank is a little weak. 

 

 

I know about Charioteer an Rev. I can accept the first, being a TD, to have more damage. 

But I consider Rev a wrong tank. Not brocken or op, just a wrong concept. And I wouldn't like to see another one of this error, not with the pen value you propose.



tajj7 #20 Posted 03 October 2017 - 09:27 AM

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View Postbrumbarr, on 02 October 2017 - 06:55 PM, said:

 

Rev wil have a bit better gun hanlding and 0,5s better reload, and for that its a bigger target, way less armor,  much bigger target and no hesh shell that has more pen than his standard round.

 

Over 20% better dispersion is massive in this game. Not sure on bigger target as FV is hardly a small tank, especially as the HD model is wrong and the turret is too big and too talk. Plus the FVs armour is pretty negligible. 

 

Plus hardly like the Rev is a standard for tier 8, it's solid, for a tier 8 medium, which is the problem, all the tier 8 meds need buffing anyway across the board. I'm balancing this to the tier, not other similar tanks, the power level of tier 8 has been set by tanks like the IS3, Borsig, Skorpion, Defender, Liberte, Patriot, VK 1001P, that new chinese TD etc. that is not going to change anytime so tanks should be balanced nearer that IMO, other tier 8s need buffs to compete close to that level. 

 

M4 Rev needs a pen buff IMO anyway to like 220. 

 

 






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