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Is there actually a difference between the Jagdtiger and the Sturmtiger mit 88 l/71

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Derethim #1 Posted 03 October 2017 - 02:32 AM

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Altough it looks a bit different, I saw models online of the Sturmtiger with an 88mm gun.

It could make for a nice premium tank, certainly not interesting enough to have it's own line, especially if it's half made-up or completely made-up. Like if the Sturmtiger was never outfitted with the gun.

 

There's not much difference otherwise between it and the Jagdtiger 88, but it may have better armor and could be a little slower and could be smaller.

But then again, there's not much difference between the black T34 and the T34 either :trollface:

 

Or I just don't know anything about tank history and this is the Jagdtiger 88.



Snake_Keeper #2 Posted 03 October 2017 - 03:59 AM

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There was no Sturmtiger with 88mm. Some people spread the rumor there was a Sturmtiger outfitted with Jagdpanther/Jagdtiger 88(these change depending on who is telling the story) components for one reason or another, but all of these stories are based on hearsay(I knew a guy who knew a guy who knew a war veteran serving with a Sturmtiger). Supposedly there are pictures of it, yet nobody can find them.

 

 



Derethim #3 Posted 03 October 2017 - 11:40 AM

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View PostSnake_Keeper, on 03 October 2017 - 03:59 AM, said:

There was no Sturmtiger with 88mm. Some people spread the rumor there was a Sturmtiger outfitted with Jagdpanther/Jagdtiger 88(these change depending on who is telling the story) components for one reason or another, but all of these stories are based on hearsay(I knew a guy who knew a guy who knew a war veteran serving with a Sturmtiger). Supposedly there are pictures of it, yet nobody can find them.

 

 

 

I'm sure WG can "find" them ... lol

Enforcer1975 #4 Posted 03 October 2017 - 11:54 AM

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From wiki, take it with a pinch of salt though.
- Aside from the 11 early vehicles with a Porsche suspension, the only variant developed was the Sd.Kfz.185. The difference was that the gun used was the 8.8 cm PaK 43 rather than the 12.8 cm PaK 44. This was due to shortages of the latter weapon. The variant did not enter service. -

Edited by Enforcer1975, 03 October 2017 - 11:54 AM.


Derethim #5 Posted 03 October 2017 - 12:01 PM

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View PostEnforcer1975, on 03 October 2017 - 11:54 AM, said:

From wiki, take it with a pinch of salt though.
- Aside from the 11 early vehicles with a Porsche suspension, the only variant developed was the Sd.Kfz.185. The difference was that the gun used was the 8.8 cm PaK 43 rather than the 12.8 cm PaK 44. This was due to shortages of the latter weapon. The variant did not enter service. -

 

So it's a possible tank. 

4nt #6 Posted 03 October 2017 - 12:23 PM

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View PostEnforcer1975, on 03 October 2017 - 11:54 AM, said:

From wiki, take it with a pinch of salt though.
- Aside from the 11 early vehicles with a Porsche suspension, the only variant developed was the Sd.Kfz.185. The difference was that the gun used was the 8.8 cm PaK 43 rather than the 12.8 cm PaK 44. This was due to shortages of the latter weapon. The variant did not enter service. -

But doesn't this refer to jagdtiger, which is already in game? I've never heard of sturmtiger with any other main weapon than the demolition mortar it had.



magkiln #7 Posted 03 October 2017 - 12:52 PM

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View Post4nt, on 03 October 2017 - 12:23 PM, said:

But doesn't this refer to jagdtiger, which is already in game? I've never heard of sturmtiger with any other main weapon than the demolition mortar it had.

 

And the Jagdtiger with the 88mm did see service.

AvengerOrion #8 Posted 03 October 2017 - 01:00 PM

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View PostDerethim, on 03 October 2017 - 12:01 PM, said:

 

So it's a possible tank. 

 

Everything is possible for Wargaming, a supposed drawing on a napkin is enough historical accuracy.

Derethim #9 Posted 03 October 2017 - 01:09 PM

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View PostAvengerOrion, on 03 October 2017 - 01:00 PM, said:

 

Everything is possible for Wargaming, a supposed drawing on a napkin is enough historical accuracy.

 

Tru.

Cobra6 #10 Posted 03 October 2017 - 01:24 PM

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We already have that, it's the Jagdtiger 88 and it's a terrible tank in the current (goldspam) meta and broken Matchmaker.

 

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Ze_HOFF_fverhoef #11 Posted 03 October 2017 - 01:27 PM

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Not the version with 380mm gun?

 

Nice anecdote from the wiki (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sturmtiger#Combat_service)

 

Block Quote

 During this action, one of the Sturmtigers in Sturmmörserkompanie 1001 near Düren and Euskirchen hit a group of stationary Shermans tanks in a village with a 380mm round, resulting in nearly all the Shermans being put out of action, and their crews killed or wounded.

 

 



AvengerOrion #12 Posted 03 October 2017 - 01:31 PM

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View Postmagkiln, on 03 October 2017 - 12:52 PM, said:

 

And the Jagdtiger with the 88mm did see service.

 

And who needs a turretless Tiger H when the ingame turreted Tiger H already has an 88 L71.

Do we really need a tier 7 premium german TD?



Dava_117 #13 Posted 03 October 2017 - 01:32 PM

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View PostZe_HOFF_fverhoef, on 03 October 2017 - 01:27 PM, said:

Not the version with 380mm gun?

 

Nice anecdote from the wiki (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sturmtiger#Combat_service)

 

 

 

 

It talks about Sherman, so I would see the sturmtiger as a nice tier 7 arty, something like S-51. 2000alpha, 20m of explosive radius and 30s stun.

Feel balanced to me! :trollface:



Ze_HOFF_fverhoef #14 Posted 03 October 2017 - 01:38 PM

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View PostDava_117, on 03 October 2017 - 12:32 PM, said:

 

It talks about Sherman, so I would see the sturmtiger as a nice tier 7 arty, something like S-51. 2000alpha, 20m of explosive radius and 30s stun.

Feel balanced to me! :trollface:

 

Better stop right there before Wargaming thinks it would be a brilliant idea

Derethim #15 Posted 03 October 2017 - 01:39 PM

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But it's so pretty! It's like a tiny version of 'ze Jadgtiger.

Lord_Edge #16 Posted 03 October 2017 - 01:54 PM

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View PostSnake_Keeper, on 03 October 2017 - 03:59 AM, said:

There was no Sturmtiger with 88mm. Some people spread the rumor there was a Sturmtiger outfitted with Jagdpanther/Jagdtiger 88(these change depending on who is telling the story) components for one reason or another, but all of these stories are based on hearsay(I knew a guy who knew a guy who knew a war veteran serving with a Sturmtiger). Supposedly there are pictures of it, yet nobody can find them.

While it's true that very few claim to have seen the picture of it (the photo not the painting from the 50's) I personally believe it just because the story is so plausible and the guy had no motive/reason to make it up.



captainpigg #17 Posted 03 October 2017 - 02:15 PM

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View Post4nt, on 03 October 2017 - 11:23 AM, said:

But doesn't this refer to jagdtiger, which is already in game? I've never heard of sturmtiger with any other main weapon than the demolition mortar it had.

 

According to wiki, originally it was supposed to have a 210mm howitzer, probably cut down from one of these.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/21_cm_M%C3%B6rser_16

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/21_cm_M%C3%B6rser_18

 

View PostDava_117, on 03 October 2017 - 12:32 PM, said:

 

It talks about Sherman, so I would see the sturmtiger as a nice tier 7 arty, something like S-51. 2000alpha, 20m of explosive radius and 30s stun.

Feel balanced to me! :trollface:

 

I would rather it be a TD/arty hybrid line as the tier 9. Plays as derp TD's, with high HP's (like British AT line) but with arty crew (historical {AVRE line to have the same}), BUT no arty view, direct fire only and contributes to the arty cap.

 

Shell types, damage per shot and whether it gets a reduced stun and splash range would have to be tested for balancing.

 

Line as I see it would be:

 

tier 4 Stug III b     ingame already

tier 5 StuH 42      sorta ingame already

tier 6 sIG 33b

tier 7 Brummbãr

tier 8 Sturmpanther

tier 9 Sturmtiger     modeled and tested in-game already

tier 10 Sturmpanzer Maus  it and a E-100 were proposed with the 17cm gun (pretty sure the E-100 is the tier 10 td)

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sturmgesch%C3%BCtz_III

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sturm-Infanteriegesch%C3%BCtz_33B

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brummb%C3%A4r

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Panzer_V_variants

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sturmtiger

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/17_cm_Kanone_18

 

Found a picture of the Sturmtiger 88mm, really is I feel a model kitbash.


Edited by captainpigg, 03 October 2017 - 02:19 PM.


Derethim #18 Posted 03 October 2017 - 02:33 PM

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Tanks with such big derps will never be ingame, but look how cute it is!

A baby Jagdtiger.



Lord_Edge #19 Posted 03 October 2017 - 04:29 PM

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View Postcaptainpigg, on 03 October 2017 - 02:15 PM, said:

Found a picture of the Sturmtiger 88mm, really is I feel a model kitbash.

 

IIRC the Sturmtiger 88 tale and model kits come from a story a (quite respected) poster on a modeling forum told about 15 years ago, of a picture he had seen of a Sturm that had been field repaired to use the 88 from a wrecked Jagdpanther.  I remember finding it quite believable at the time purely because he had no reason to lie and it all sounded plausible.

 

*EDIT*

 

For anybody interested he's the original post (I have struck out a bit referencing tabletop model gaming to avoid confusing any forum members with poor English):

 

Block Quote

 The unit in question was definitely a Sturmtiger with the L71 8.8. The Hr. Hauptman who had the photo was the father of one of my sergeants, and on a visit to him he showed me his enormous photo collection from the war. I saw the photo of the Sturm, and immediately said it was not correct. He smiled and said the Werkstadt built it from a wrecked Jagdpanther and a Sturm. Two years later, I had to visit him again to inform him his son was dead. His wife had died some years before. As I said in my original post, there was no further contact between us, as he was a Hr Hauptman RK, and I am sergeant.

When I got in to 1/16 armor,and asked about the Sturm on this forum, I made inquiries about him, and found the Hr Hauptman had died now about three years ago. My people could find no record of his photo archives, or his medals (RK, EK I and II etc). As there were no living relatives found by the State, the State handled the funeral and burial. His possesions and the disposition thereof were handled by the State. We are still looking for the photos, and investigating the dissappearence of the valuable medals etc. We may have a lead on the medals, but not the photos. Perhaps the medals will lead us to the photos eventually. I hope so. The State is interested.

An interesting email was sent to me during the discussion. It was a painting of the Sturmtiger mit 8.8 L71. If I remember correctly, the sender said it was a painting he bought in the early '50's. It was indeed the Sturmtiger in question, only the camo, mantlet and cupola were different. The photo I saw had the Jagdpanther tube(two piece) and mantlet, and the Tiger 2/late Tiger I cupola, not the Panther cupola, and was very dirty and worn winter white. I did not disclose these details for several reasons, not the least of which was I decided to build the Sturm for combat in the RCACN. It is indeed complete, and has battled in Danville twice. It is feared, refered to as "the nasty Sturmtiger mit 8.8cm". I will post photos in the nearest future. As I said in my original post, the photo was of the Sturm, very battered with many gouges in the armor, with very weary soldatim around it. The Hr Hauptman said it dissappeared in the last few days of the war on the Ost Front. Perhaps it is in Russia? Maybe Kubinka? Who knows. I know what I saw, as I am a history buff of sorts, and even then knew the difference between a Jagdpanzer, Jagdtiger, Jagdpanther, etc. There is no doubt of the photo, a Sturmtiger, steel wheeled, with a Panther mantlet and 8.8cm L71 two piece main gun, a Tiger II/late Tiger I cupola, missing all his fenders, lots of gouges and dents, really bedraggled, with a number of tired looking soldiers around it, some in winter white, some in cammo, some in dark uniforms, all obviously winter.

 

 


Edited by Ubersonic, 03 October 2017 - 04:35 PM.


Derethim #20 Posted 03 October 2017 - 09:08 PM

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"a Sturmtiger, steel wheeled, with a Panther mantlet and 8.8cm L71 two piece main gun, a Tiger II/late Tiger I cupola, missing all his fenders, lots of gouges and dents, really bedraggled, with a number of tired looking soldiers around it, some in winter white, some in cammo, some in dark uniforms, all obviously winter."

 

Sounds like a photo I'd wanna see for sure. A battle-worn tank and it's battle-worn crew.






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