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How to play live oaks


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WindSpIitter1 #1 Posted 05 October 2017 - 12:16 AM

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Method 1:

Spoiler

 

Everyone goes to the important flank and fast tanks on red yolo in the dip so they have a chance of winning that side. If red loses that dip they have the worse positions on that flank and likely lose.

 

Method 2 aka your team is stupid or too slow edition:

Spoiler

 

Red team spots the stupid camping TDs and idiot heavy bots who go city from the neat little suburbs, wins city quick and kills the camping bot TDs before, and this is crucial, not suiciding towards the enemy cap and instead returning to either support or avenge their own camping bot TDs and scrificial lamb who hopefully stopped green team for long enough.

 

Green team basically yoloes down the bridge flank because they win that way.

 

So now you know exactly what your team does wrong next time they don't yolo in the bowl and lose the bridge flank or pushes the enemy teams cap which is completely open in a 400 meter radius and ludicrously easy to defend. 

 

Such a simple map, yet people still play it wrong after all this time. 



Long_Range_Sniper #2 Posted 05 October 2017 - 12:26 AM

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Rule 1. Don't go to the city.

Rule 2. For any other tactic go to rule 1.

 

I can't see how anyone who can look at that map and not work out that winning the city wins you the right to cross large pieces of open ground to finally get to a position where you "might" win the game. But by then you've lost all your HP winning the city for the honour of dying outside it.



WindSpIitter1 #3 Posted 05 October 2017 - 12:36 AM

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View PostLong_Range_Sniper, on 05 October 2017 - 12:26 AM, said:

Rule 1. Don't go to the city.

Rule 2. For any other tactic go to rule 1.

 

I can't see how anyone who can look at that map and not work out that winning the city wins you the right to cross large pieces of open ground to finally get to a position where you "might" win the game. But by then you've lost all your HP winning the city for the honour of dying outside it.

 

In fairness in randoms you can go city, you just can't extend past the TD ridge because then you just run into one of the worst crossfire zones in the game and you can't take 7 minutes to win it because by then the green team is already up in yo [edited]. 

 

But yeah, south spawn going to the city at all is stupid. Hell, I've seen teams coming from south spawn and all stopping on that TD bot hill and teams from north spawn sitting in the bowl area of the bridge flank instead of taking the riverbed. At that point you've just as a team gone out and spread your arsecheeks wide open with a sign saying "free for the taking".



Jigabachi #4 Posted 05 October 2017 - 12:45 AM

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Doesn't work since in most matches you would be the only one to rush there. And being the only one to rush there means that you will be dead soon.

These days I even get many matches where everybody camps at E0...



K_A #5 Posted 05 October 2017 - 12:49 AM

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Win the south, win the battle. Basically. I basically always go south, no matter what tank I'm in. 

The_Georgian_One #6 Posted 05 October 2017 - 07:58 AM

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View PostHeathLedger_, on 05 October 2017 - 12:36 AM, said:

 

But yeah, south spawn going to the city at all is stupid. Hell, I've seen teams coming from south spawn and all stopping on that TD bot hill and teams from north spawn sitting in the bowl area of the bridge flank instead of taking the riverbed. At that point you've just as a team gone out and spread your arsecheeks wide open with a sign saying "free for the taking".

 

Yep, I saw that too. Smart heavies totally ignoring city by going railway or camping with TDs on the hill. 3 tanks would stop the whole north push there.

View PostK_A, on 05 October 2017 - 12:49 AM, said:

Win the south, win the battle. Basically. I basically always go south, no matter what tank I'm in. This, though it's more challenging from north spawn.

 



HeidenSieker #7 Posted 05 October 2017 - 12:21 PM

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View PostLong_Range_Sniper, on 05 October 2017 - 12:26 AM, said:

Rule 1. Don't go to the city.

Rule 2. For any other tactic go to rule 1.

 

I can't see how anyone who can look at that map and not work out that winning the city wins you the right to cross large pieces of open ground to finally get to a position where you "might" win the game. But by then you've lost all your HP winning the city for the honour of dying outside it.

 

I used to try telling people that at the start of randoms, in my Bishop/FV304.. Cue jeering about "useless", ignorant", "stupid", "arty" etc. plus horrific amounts of map pings on the town. Pfffffffffffft. Still, it's nice to be in the right.

thestaggy #8 Posted 05 October 2017 - 12:34 PM

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As HeidenSieker pointed out, I had a battle here last night that started with a 113 furiously spamming A3 during the countdown. Ironically, it was one of our arty that said ''also to train tracks'', ''please go there too'' in chat. I went to the important flank in my CAX and aced it. The 113? Well, it must have gone terribly in the city as he done 0 damage.



Enforcer1975 #9 Posted 05 October 2017 - 12:40 PM

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View PostLong_Range_Sniper, on 05 October 2017 - 12:26 AM, said:

Rule 1. Don't go to the city.

Rule 2. For any other tactic go to rule 1.

 

I can't see how anyone who can look at that map and not work out that winning the city wins you the right to cross large pieces of open ground to finally get to a position where you "might" win the game. But by then you've lost all your HP winning the city for the honour of dying outside it.

 

View PostHeathLedger_, on 05 October 2017 - 12:36 AM, said:

 

In fairness in randoms you can go city, you just can't extend past the TD ridge because then you just run into one of the worst crossfire zones in the game and you can't take 7 minutes to win it because by then the green team is already up in yo [edited].

 

But yeah, south spawn going to the city at all is stupid. Hell, I've seen teams coming from south spawn and all stopping on that TD bot hill and teams from north spawn sitting in the bowl area of the bridge flank instead of taking the riverbed. At that point you've just as a team gone out and spread your arsecheeks wide open with a sign saying "free for the taking".

 

You can encouter bush fappers just the same when coming from south. What's important is winning both sides so the players who are cornered have to split their fire.

Edited by Enforcer1975, 05 October 2017 - 12:40 PM.


K_A #10 Posted 05 October 2017 - 12:43 PM

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View PostEnforcer1975, on 05 October 2017 - 11:40 AM, said:

 

 

You can encouter bush fappers just the same when coming from south. What's important is winning both sides so the players who are cornered have to split their fire.

 

You don't even need to win the town, just hold them off with a couple guys until the bridge guys get to the enemy's base. 

VeryRisky #11 Posted 05 October 2017 - 12:47 PM

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How would you play thing in say an M56 Scorpion.   Other than a a camping bot TD.     Because essentially in that tank you cannot get yourself shot at.

 

 



Bennie182 #12 Posted 05 October 2017 - 12:56 PM

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View PostVeryRisky, on 05 October 2017 - 12:47 PM, said:

How would you play thing in say an M56 Scorpion.   Other than a a camping bot TD.     Because essentially in that tank you cannot get yourself shot at.

 

 

I would support base defense in that case. Some tanks are just not suitable to help pushing south flank.



Aikl #13 Posted 05 October 2017 - 12:58 PM

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View PostVeryRisky, on 05 October 2017 - 11:47 AM, said:

How would you play thing in say an M56 Scorpion.   Other than a a camping bot TD.     Because essentially in that tank you cannot get yourself shot at.

 

 

 

I'm no map staring expert, but I'd still go south and help your useless teammates that didn't rush the dip. I mean, if/when the south fails you might have the camo and firepower to get a bit done - and hopefully pull back before you get shot at. Plenty of useful bushes for some weird reason.

 

Another option is attempting to cover the swamp area. Might not be that useful, but in the likely scenario of running binos you should be able to spot decently well. Late-game Live Oaks is where lights can shine. Worst-case you're alive at the point where the base needs to be defended. That will also leave you somewhat useful when the citygoers decide to cross the great divide, and they need a distraction.

 

(Funny how "you should camp" is the "best" advice on many maps - and frankly the reason why I don't like to play TDs where soft stats, armor and/or mobility limits how useful they are in a close- to mid-range fight. )


Edited by Aikl, 05 October 2017 - 01:01 PM.


RandomBlank #14 Posted 05 October 2017 - 01:11 PM

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For meds, lights with decent alpha and pen, and heavies with reasonable depression and mobility, this makes sense. For slow TDs, paper TDs, really sluggish heavies, you're better off taking the city, with support of a scout. The scout is essential. Don't attempt this without the scout. And if you see that scout, don't blindly rush into the city - get behind that hill, reap tons of damage, stop any flankers that try to go through the field, and make the combat inside the city quite one-sided as the enemy is deprived of TD support.

 

44_north_america.jpg

 

Especially if you're playing north, you'll be able first to soften up the heavies crossing into the city, then wipe out most of the TDs camping on the hill, and then take up the enemy TD hill while the scout spots near the enemy cap. South won't be able to "soften up" the TDs on their way into the city, but then they need one spotter on the hill to sell a shell to every heavy crossing the extension of the road into the city.

 

If you don't have the scout, or it dies, just retreat and try to defend near the cap.



CoDiGGo #15 Posted 05 October 2017 - 01:13 PM

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With xvm is funny that, all noobs/bobs go city and all experienced players go bridge

Dava_117 #16 Posted 05 October 2017 - 01:30 PM

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Both sides are important. I won lots of game pushing from city, and I lost a similar ammount because no one went to city. 

It's also impossible to fight on the ridges of the railroad without a good gun depression, so most of the heavys will  perform better in town. If you win town, and have enought tanks and HP, a push usually lead to a win. Obviously, if east front fall or you don't have enought HP to push, a tactical retreat to support bridge can help too.



WindSpIitter1 #17 Posted 05 October 2017 - 03:07 PM

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View PostDava_117, on 05 October 2017 - 01:30 PM, said:

Both sides are important. I won lots of game pushing from city, and I lost a similar ammount because no one went to city. 

It's also impossible to fight on the ridges of the railroad without a good gun depression, so most of the heavys will  perform better in town. If you win town, and have enought tanks and HP, a push usually lead to a win. Obviously, if east front fall or you don't have enought HP to push, a tactical retreat to support bridge can help too.

 

They quite literally aren't is what I'm trying to say. Live oaks has such an exposed cap you can literally zerg your entire team one way and easily stop the enemy from capping after murdering half their team easily with the numbers advantage on the flank you picked. This "every flank needs to be covered" mentality is plain wrong on most maps, but especially so on this one. 

 

View PostEnforcer1975, on 05 October 2017 - 12:40 PM, said:

 

You can encouter bush fappers just the same when coming from south. What's important is winning both sides so the players who are cornered have to split their fire.

 

Well, after winning bridge south can just push through the swamp area to get to the city and cut off any defenders and encircle any cheeky bushmunchers in A-0. Taking the hill at D-7 or even the town at B-5 takes a way a lot of cover for the camping TDs there and there are only 3 bushes they can use there. You can quite safely ignore the town for most of the game, once you take bridge they can either push on and be split off from the rest of their team trying to cross open field or they can try to come back through open fields to support their campers. 

 

View PostRandomBlank, on 05 October 2017 - 01:11 PM, said:

For meds, lights with decent alpha and pen, and heavies with reasonable depression and mobility, this makes sense. For slow TDs, paper TDs, really sluggish heavies, you're better off taking the city, with support of a scout. The scout is essential. Don't attempt this without the scout. And if you see that scout, don't blindly rush into the city - get behind that hill, reap tons of damage, stop any flankers that try to go through the field, and make the combat inside the city quite one-sided as the enemy is deprived of TD support.

 

44_north_america.jpg

 

Especially if you're playing north, you'll be able first to soften up the heavies crossing into the city, then wipe out most of the TDs camping on the hill, and then take up the enemy TD hill while the scout spots near the enemy cap. South won't be able to "soften up" the TDs on their way into the city, but then they need one spotter on the hill to sell a shell to every heavy crossing the extension of the road into the city.

 

If you don't have the scout, or it dies, just retreat and try to defend near the cap.

 

That strat is literally built around expecting the enemy TDs to be stupid(granted they probably are), your teams being just as stupid and that nobody from the bridge area will take the easy shots to murder you AND you have enough tanks to win a flank at least.

 

Don't bother with the swamp area until the endgame, it's a deathtrap unless you hold the bridge area.



Dava_117 #18 Posted 05 October 2017 - 03:22 PM

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View PostHeathLedger_, on 05 October 2017 - 03:07 PM, said:

 

They quite literally aren't is what I'm trying to say. Live oaks has such an exposed cap you can literally zerg your entire team one way and easily stop the enemy from capping after murdering half their team easily with the numbers advantage on the flank you picked. This "every flank needs to be covered" mentality is plain wrong on most maps, but especially so on this one.

 

Pushing doesn't mean yolo from city to cap. You have the last buildings to sidescrape and kill hill TDs. Then, if you have enought force, you can move to the hill itself. From there you can support bridge front or you can push to artys depression. That gives you a good cover to drain fire from east front, allowing them to push too, or you can then reach the red line buildings an move covered to the factory to encicle enemys. I can agree that the bridge can require more tanks to not collapse, but saying that city is useless is as wrong as saying that the railway front is useless and both lead to a probable defeat.

WindSpIitter1 #19 Posted 05 October 2017 - 03:30 PM

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View PostDava_117, on 05 October 2017 - 03:22 PM, said:

 

Pushing doesn't mean yolo from city to cap. You have the last buildings to sidescrape and kill hill TDs. Then, if you have enought force, you can move to the hill itself. From there you can support bridge front or you can push to artys depression. That gives you a good cover to drain fire from east front, allowing them to push too, or you can then reach the red line buildings an move covered to the factory to encicle enemys. I can agree that the bridge can require more tanks to not collapse, but saying that city is useless is as wrong as saying that the railway front is useless and both lead to a probable defeat.

 

And what exactly are the TDs going to do if you ignore them? Push in with 4 tanks after you're done slaughtering the rest of their team by moving over those big, long open fields? 

 

You're missing the point completely. North base has close to 0 chance of winning rails if they don't yolo into the riverbed, that just gives south a set of very good positions. That means if the majority of tanks go rails and don't yolo, the game is likely lost. But if they do, that flank will decide the outcome of the game in a brawl that's likely to be very quick by random battle standards. At that point if you've overpowered that flank it's a trivial exercise to dig out the remaining enemy tanks especially since you probably have a few camping TDs yourself who are quite close to be able to defend base. 

 

As I said, those open fields and the completely cut off nature the 2 flanks have from each-other mean there is very little point in going both and very little point in going for a cap win. That just means the winning play is to yolo down one flank and then coming back in time to defend, from either side. It's just that south has no incentive to play anything other than rails and north needs to yolo the riverbed to be able to contend that flank.



CmdRatScabies #20 Posted 05 October 2017 - 03:38 PM

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The more I play, the more I think it's less about executing the ideal plan and more about learning what to do in non ideal circumstances when the team didn't get the "what to do, where to go" memo.




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