Jump to content


Camo skill on super heavy tanks


  • Please log in to reply
28 replies to this topic

HassenderZerhacker #1 Posted 05 October 2017 - 07:56 AM

    Captain

  • Player
  • 27227 battles
  • 2,398
  • [1DPG] 1DPG
  • Member since:
    09-09-2015

Recently I noticed that I cannot hide heavy tanks behind bushes as well as before.

I also noticed that I began to spot heavies standing behind several layers of bushes.

I noticed that recently, which doesn't mean that it hasn't been that way for a long time already - but I wonder if changes were made to bush density or if heavies got a camo penalty or whatever?

 

It's just a feeling of mine that hiding a heavy tank behind bushes has become more difficult.

 

And that brings me to my question - has camo skill on heavies now become useful - or is an E75 with full camo crew able to hide behind a big bush?



Homer_J #2 Posted 05 October 2017 - 08:14 AM

    Field Marshal

  • Beta Tester
  • 28771 battles
  • 30,120
  • [WJDE] WJDE
  • Member since:
    09-03-2010

View PostHassenderZerhacker, on 05 October 2017 - 07:56 AM, said:

 

I also noticed that I began to spot heavies standing behind several layers of bushes.

 

 

You spotted them or someone else did?  Replay?

 

And no, bushes have not been changed since the massive bush nerf a few years ago.

 

If you want to know how useful camo skill is then use this

 

So I used your E75 an M48 with enough boosts to give it exactly 445m view range and the difference between your E75 stationary in the open with and without camo is about 13m.  Interestingly behind a dense bush the camo training still only gives you about 13m but it's 218 vs 231 rather than 429 vs 431.


Edited by Homer_J, 05 October 2017 - 08:26 AM.


Keyhand #3 Posted 05 October 2017 - 08:24 AM

    Major General

  • Player
  • 61497 battles
  • 5,361
  • [ROIDS] ROIDS
  • Member since:
    10-25-2011

Camo on Superheavies will - in my opinion - only ever be viable on ESL accounts since the situation where it will actually help are very limited, the other skills that can be picked are far more likely to be of use.

Let's be honest: how often do you camp in a bush more than 400m away from an enemy so that your camo would actually help?

Camo on superheavies is near useless.



brumbarr #4 Posted 05 October 2017 - 08:30 AM

    Lieutenant General

  • Player
  • 38626 battles
  • 6,326
  • Member since:
    07-30-2012

View PostKeyhand, on 05 October 2017 - 08:24 AM, said:

Let's be honest: how often do you camp in a bush more than 400m away from an enemy so that your camo would actually help?

Camo on superheavies is near useless.

The OPs question makes me worry about exactly that, i think the answer to your question might be more than you think.



Igor_BL #5 Posted 05 October 2017 - 08:34 AM

    Second Lieutenant

  • Player
  • 39672 battles
  • 1,354
  • [GX] GX
  • Member since:
    06-10-2015

HZ, you can compare tanks in garage, and there choose some HT and put him camo skill on... you'll see that the bonus for 100% is almost non-existing.

 

I "tested" it for 4005... with full crew camo, you only gain 1% bonus. Not worth it...

Camo skills can be usefull very rare... like, when you cross to the city on start on Lakevil... It can save your [edited], one in 100 games.

 

But just pick any other skill, you will benefit more.



Mr_Beefy #6 Posted 05 October 2017 - 08:44 AM

    Warrant Officer

  • Player
  • 22895 battles
  • 559
  • [OZ77] OZ77
  • Member since:
    09-13-2015

Camo in my opinion is a skill you train after you have the more important stuff.

on loader u have max 7 skill.  So safe stowage, repairs, BIA, adrenaline rush, firefighting, camo, intuition (seriously, the most useless perk ever, if it was to work 50% or better, fine, but...)

on Commander u have like 13 or more (depending if Radio Operator is also on Commander), So 6th, BIA, view range, Eagle Eye, repairs, Firefighting etc are more important.

on Gunner, deadeye, snap shot, BIA, repairs, firefighting, designated target, armeror......Camo 

on Driver, smooth ride, traverse speed, off road driving, repairs, controlled impact, firefighting................Camo

 

On an HT, I would make sure that repairs would be full and any perk/skill that helps you traverse and improve ground resistance way before camo.  Since you are supposed to be in the front, brawling, rather then bush-kemping.  Even with German HT's that are mostly quite accurate.

 

EDIT:

Most people won't have more then 4-5 perks MAX 6 on 1 crew.  Anything above that means thousands of battles on that crew specifically.  


Edited by Mr_Beefy, 05 October 2017 - 08:47 AM.


HassenderZerhacker #7 Posted 05 October 2017 - 09:16 AM

    Captain

  • Player
  • 27227 battles
  • 2,398
  • [1DPG] 1DPG
  • Member since:
    09-09-2015

View PostHomer_J, on 05 October 2017 - 08:14 AM, said:

 

You spotted them or someone else did?  Replay?

 

And no, bushes have not been changed since the massive bush nerf a few years ago.

 

If you want to know how useful camo skill is then use this

 

So I used your E75 an M48 with enough boosts to give it exactly 445m view range and the difference between your E75 stationary in the open with and without camo is about 13m.  Interestingly behind a dense bush the camo training still only gives you about 13m but it's 218 vs 231 rather than 429 vs 431.

 

I have the replay, but I'm too lazy to upload it.

did some reading anyway and it appears the few aha moments I got during the past days when playing the E100 when spotted and T25 when spotting are just applications of regular bush camo mechanics.

there is a rational explanation for these lights in the sky after all... ;-)

 

thanks all for the replies and useful links


Edited by HassenderZerhacker, 05 October 2017 - 09:16 AM.


Browarszky #8 Posted 05 October 2017 - 02:55 PM

    Colonel

  • Player
  • 16096 battles
  • 3,737
  • [I-S-L] I-S-L
  • Member since:
    12-03-2013

View PostKeyhand, on 05 October 2017 - 07:24 AM, said:

Camo on Superheavies will - in my opinion - only ever be viable on ESL accounts since the situation where it will actually help are very limited, the other skills that can be picked are far more likely to be of use.

Let's be honest: how often do you camp in a bush more than 400m away from an enemy so that your camo would actually help?

Camo on superheavies is near useless.

 

View Postbrumbarr, on 05 October 2017 - 07:30 AM, said:

The OPs question makes me worry about exactly that, i think the answer to your question might be more than you think.

 

I better refrain from any further comment...

TungstenHitman #9 Posted 05 October 2017 - 02:57 PM

    Brigadier

  • Player
  • 22272 battles
  • 4,076
  • Member since:
    08-28-2016
Why would you camp bush in a super heavy?

Browarszky #10 Posted 05 October 2017 - 03:05 PM

    Colonel

  • Player
  • 16096 battles
  • 3,737
  • [I-S-L] I-S-L
  • Member since:
    12-03-2013

View PostTungstenHitman, on 05 October 2017 - 01:57 PM, said:

Why would you camp bush in a super heavy?

 

What would you do in a super heavy?

Mr_Beefy #11 Posted 05 October 2017 - 03:23 PM

    Warrant Officer

  • Player
  • 22895 battles
  • 559
  • [OZ77] OZ77
  • Member since:
    09-13-2015

View PostBrowarszky, on 05 October 2017 - 04:05 PM, said:

 

What would you do in a super heavy?

 

​Hit W.  Angle, and brawl the living kaka out of the enemy tanks.

Browarszky #12 Posted 05 October 2017 - 03:30 PM

    Colonel

  • Player
  • 16096 battles
  • 3,737
  • [I-S-L] I-S-L
  • Member since:
    12-03-2013

View PostMr_Beefy, on 05 October 2017 - 02:23 PM, said:

 

​Hit W.  Angle, and brawl the living kaka out of the enemy tanks.

 

What about TD's, arty, and all those pesky little tanks that shoot your tracks? And then you get even more TD's and arty... :arta:

TungstenHitman #13 Posted 05 October 2017 - 03:32 PM

    Brigadier

  • Player
  • 22272 battles
  • 4,076
  • Member since:
    08-28-2016

View PostBrowarszky, on 05 October 2017 - 02:05 PM, said:

 

What would you do in a super heavy?

 

Fail?

 

That said, I'm pretty sure you don't camp bush in a Maus or Type4, 5 etc there's NOTHING about em suggests that's what they are good at doing. That said I have seen a few super heavies try(try being the optimal word here) camp bush on the hill south side Karelia, and fail horribly.

That's not to be confused with standard heavy tanks, some of which are REALLY good snipers but with weak armour and low alpha like some British and some German heavies. Play to a tanks strength is the point, pretty sure camping bush at the back of map isn't a playing to a super-heavies strengths, do you?



Mr_Beefy #14 Posted 05 October 2017 - 03:45 PM

    Warrant Officer

  • Player
  • 22895 battles
  • 559
  • [OZ77] OZ77
  • Member since:
    09-13-2015

View PostBrowarszky, on 05 October 2017 - 04:30 PM, said:

 

What about TD's, arty, and all those pesky little tanks that shoot your tracks? And then you get even more TD's and arty... :arta:

 

​Read above regarding crew perk suggestions.

On HT's.  ALWAYS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Have all crew on full repairs.  On some tanks I even drop vert stabs for a toolbox.  Repairing tracks in 4 seconds is quite usefull when an AT15 or stock Tortoise is permatracking you.  



Mike_Mckay #15 Posted 05 October 2017 - 03:49 PM

    Lieutenant

  • Player
  • 20533 battles
  • 1,552
  • [-AWF-] -AWF-
  • Member since:
    09-02-2015
I don't bother with cammo on tanks with crap cammo values as its a % increase, so even if the % was the same for all classes (which it isn't) then x% increase of practically nothing is also practically nothing. So skills that would act on poor values like aim time, terrain resistance, traverse or loading would be far more beneficial as a % decrease on a large value is far more useful than on a small one IE 2.5% off of a 3 second aim time is a bigger improvement than the same from a 1.6 second aim time and is far more likely to impact on silver and XP earnings than an extra metre worth of not being spotted in most games


I put permanent cammo on my premiums purely because they are premiums, but I don't even bother with silver cammo on TT tanks with low cammo values except in limited circumstances like a TOTT event or where the tank already has a full cammo crew and the numbers are starting to get more reasonable and with some 2nd line heavies

With brawlers cammo and even view range are far less important than more reactive things like repairs, loading and aiming speed
 

Edited by Mike_Mckay, 05 October 2017 - 03:50 PM.


uglycousin #16 Posted 05 October 2017 - 03:50 PM

    Colonel

  • Player
  • 45172 battles
  • 3,719
  • [TFUK] TFUK
  • Member since:
    09-01-2014

View Postbrumbarr, on 05 October 2017 - 10:30 AM, said:

The OPs question makes me worry about exactly that, i think the answer to your question might be more than you think.

 

You made me curious. I wonder how many superheavies in randoms might have camo net in one of the equipment slots?

 



HassenderZerhacker #17 Posted 06 October 2017 - 12:01 PM

    Captain

  • Player
  • 27227 battles
  • 2,398
  • [1DPG] 1DPG
  • Member since:
    09-09-2015

View PostTungstenHitman, on 05 October 2017 - 02:57 PM, said:

Why would you camp bush in a super heavy?

 

This was not a question about bush camping. There are plenty of situations where bushes play a role during normal engagement, for example on fiery salient, prokhorovka, siegfriedlinie, murowanka, etc.

 

My E100 has 486m spotting range thanks to optics (using them to farm XP in ranked), so when I happen to be unspotted during combat, there are moments when I thought driving up behind that big bush on the ridge and have a look while remaining hidden would be a good idea. It works in my T25 Pilot. Doesn't work in my E100, it immediately gets spotted through the bush by a half-blind tomato 200m away, inspite of remaining behind the bush.

That's what I was wondering about.

The other way works too, on Siegfriedlinie, at approx K7, I spotted with the T25 Pilot (457m view range) a E75 that was hiding behind the house there, through approx 3 layers of bush and fallen trees.

 


Edited by HassenderZerhacker, 06 October 2017 - 12:01 PM.


CmdRatScabies #18 Posted 06 October 2017 - 12:04 PM

    Brigadier

  • Player
  • 37613 battles
  • 4,362
  • [-MM] -MM
  • Member since:
    10-12-2015

View PostHassenderZerhacker, on 06 October 2017 - 12:01 PM, said:

 

 I thought driving up behind that big bush on the ridge and have a look while remaining hidden would be a good idea. It works in my T25 Pilot. Doesn't work in my E100, it immediately gets spotted through the bush by a half-blind tomato 200m away, inspite of remaining behind the bush.

 

 

E100 is quite a bit bigger than a Pilot.  Need a bigger bush.  :)

HassenderZerhacker #19 Posted 06 October 2017 - 12:05 PM

    Captain

  • Player
  • 27227 battles
  • 2,398
  • [1DPG] 1DPG
  • Member since:
    09-09-2015

View PostCmdRatScabies, on 06 October 2017 - 12:04 PM, said:

E100 is quite a bit bigger than a Pilot.  Need a bigger bush.  :)

 

I just let the turret peek above ground, it was not a bush size issue :-)



250swb #20 Posted 06 October 2017 - 12:05 PM

    Major General

  • Player
  • 22676 battles
  • 5,075
  • [WJDE] WJDE
  • Member since:
    09-23-2015
You need a camo net, you will become invisible, those shots hitting you are just blind firing.




1 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users