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Replacement for China "121" med tank?


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Hellfoxe #1 Posted 08 October 2017 - 09:31 AM

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Dear tankers 

 

I'm thinking why not replacing the chinese 121 med tank by the "jaguar" tank.

The Jaguar was a joint Chinese-US main battle tank project carried-out in the 1980s, with the intent of modernizing the Type 59 tank and its variants. From a political standpoint, such an undertaking would have been virtually unimaginable, if not for the Chinese-US "Detente" policy established in the 1970s. The objective of this policy was to better-stabilize the global balance of power, by enhancing China's status into a sort of a "buffer state" between the US and the USSR. Among other things, this involved the transfer of US military technology to China; the Jaguar was part of this legacy.

Development of the Jaguar began at some time in the mid-1980s, and was formally announced in late 1988. The two main contributors were Cadillac Gage in USA, and the China National Machinery & Equipment Import & Export Corporation in China. 

 

 

 

41d099a5757e7ad1f1e0ee00df523b44.jpg

 

Entered service -
Crew 4 men
Dimensions and weight
Weight 41.7 t
Length (gun forward) 9.6 m
Hull length ~ 6 m
Width 3.13 m
Height 2.62 m
Armament
Main gun 105-mm rifled
Machine guns 1 x 12.7-mm, 1 x 7.62-mm
Elevation range - 4 to + 17 degrees
Traverse range 360 degrees
Ammunition load
Main gun 34 rounds
Machine guns 600 x 12.7; 3 500 x 7.62
Mobility
Engine Detroit Diesel 8V-92TA diesel
Engine power 750 hp
Maximum road speed 55 km/h
Range 540 km
Maneuverability
Gradient 60%
Side slope 30%
Vertical step 0.8 m
Trench 2.7 m
Fording 1.4 m
Fording (with preparation) up to 4.5 m

 



Sfinski #2 Posted 08 October 2017 - 09:37 AM

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"Development of the Jaguar began at some time in the mid-1980s, and was formally announced in late 1988"

 

See no problem here?



Aikl #3 Posted 08 October 2017 - 09:48 AM

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Why would you want to replace it, exactly? 121 fits the 'Chinese gimmick' perfectly well (big gun). It might be a napkin drawing, but who exactly cares at this point? Might make sense as a reward tank or alternate T10, but we already have the 121B, which also has a certain 105mm rifled gun. Details on the Jaguar are lacking at best, especially in the armor department.

This website (http://www.military-...anks/jaguar.htm) claims that The exact qualities of the Jaguar's armor are classified, though it is easily much better-protected than most T-55 variants. 
That might mean some kind of composite armor - I really doubt that you could put that much more armor on a Type 59 chassis and keep decent mobility with "only" a 750hp engine. Composite armor, like ERA and smoothbore guns, is apparently considered the limits of WoT. Development year alone is probably not a 'hard limit', though I doubt there are many tanks developed in recent years which doesn't feature something that isn't WoT-compatible. Even e.g. the Swedish CV90 in LT versions uses smoothbore guns (105/120) - sadly.

 

Even if it was to be available as a reward tank of sorts, it would be little less than a Russian medium with NATO-looks. I don't think it's that interesting, sorry.


Edited by Aikl, 08 October 2017 - 09:50 AM.


HundeWurst #4 Posted 08 October 2017 - 10:07 AM

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Why would you want to replace the 121? I dont know how accurate it is, and there is a good chance it is entirely made up by the Chinese, but its a decent tank even a bit unique.

jaxow #5 Posted 15 September 2018 - 08:18 AM

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this should be a premium tank or a special "tier 11 or 12 mbt tank" wargaming are planning to add in wot in the future. 

snowlywhite #6 Posted 15 September 2018 - 01:33 PM

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View PostHundeWurst, on 08 October 2017 - 10:07 AM, said:

Why would you want to replace the 121? I dont know how accurate it is, and there is a good chance it is entirely made up by the Chinese, but its a decent tank even a bit unique.

 

because it's a PoS? "Decent"? It's competing with stb in being the worst tier 10 med...

I_DiD_ #7 Posted 15 September 2018 - 01:41 PM

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430U? 

leggasiini #8 Posted 15 September 2018 - 02:03 PM

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Ehhh...why? It doesn't make ANY sense to replace the 121 with this thing, in any way. 



Balc0ra #9 Posted 15 September 2018 - 02:36 PM

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The main focus for WOT is 30's to mid to late 60's. As most tanks that did enter service in the 70's in this game are still 60's prototype variants as such. So late 80's is way out of this game's focus area. So I doubt we will see it as a tier X as such. 

 

View PostHundeWurst, on 08 October 2017 - 10:07 AM, said:

Why would you want to replace the 121? I dont know how accurate it is, and there is a good chance it is entirely made up by the Chinese, but its a decent tank even a bit unique.

 

Well in a recent Q&A they said they had plans to replace more tier X's and do the same as with the Foch 155 etc. Grille 15 was debunked in the next question as a candidate for it based on past rumors. Tho they did talk about the planned IS-4 changes a bit too. But based on the comments where the Q&A was posted. Chinese med and HT line seems to be the one most think will get it "not the 5A". 

 

I've not played any of the tier X Chinese. As I'm still on tier 9 on all their lines that I've yet to start to know how well the tier X is connected to the rest. As line consistency is a reason for tier X removals in the past. Be they good or bad tanks. 

 

As for it being accurate?  You don't have to search much to find that there are no images of the tank, or much info in it. But sites with info posted before 2010, as in before WOT even claims it was a first gen tank that was planned and made to counter the USSR's 2nd gen stuff. As the program was started due to their relationship going a bit sour. And some sites claims the program was quickly replaced by their 2nd gen tank. And that most of the prototypes built ended up as targets to test how tanks survived and reacted to a Nuclear explosions. But these are info from tank fan sites. So if it's reliable info or not is a different matter. 

 

 

 

 



lnfernaI #10 Posted 15 September 2018 - 03:11 PM

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Don't dare even trying to do anything like that,or you will be cursed.

 

View Postsnowlywhite, on 15 September 2018 - 02:33 PM, said:

 

because it's a PoS? "Decent"? It's competing with stb in being the worst tier 10 med...

 

What did you just call my dear 121,you filthy tomato?

edit: ew,i just realised how old this thread is..

 

View PostHundeWurst, on 08 October 2017 - 11:07 AM, said:

but its a decent tank even a bit unique.

 The object 430U corruption has everyone already think otherwise. people can't play without broken crap these days.

 

 

 


Edited by lnfernaI, 15 September 2018 - 03:14 PM.


WindSplitter1 #11 Posted 15 September 2018 - 03:13 PM

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View PostSfinski, on 08 October 2017 - 08:37 AM, said:

"Development of the Jaguar began at some time in the mid-1980s, and was formally announced in late 1988"

 

See no problem here?

 

Um... No. Not really.

 

Apart from being yet another boring L7 variant. Armour layout looks better.



leggasiini #12 Posted 15 September 2018 - 03:14 PM

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View Postsnowlywhite, on 15 September 2018 - 02:33 PM, said:

 

because it's a PoS? "Decent"? It's competing with stb in being the worst tier 10 med...

 

30B and Leo 1 are even worse than either of those tbh, though the STB-1 I would say is down there as 3rd worst or something after the 30B and Leo 1.

 

I tried the 121 on test and it's surprisingly decent, the gun is all around pretty good. Just a power to weight ratio buff to like 17-18 hp/ton or so and the 121 is good enough. The bigger issue is that the grind to it is just horrendous

 

View PostSfinski, on 08 October 2017 - 10:37 AM, said:

"Development of the Jaguar began at some time in the mid-1980s, and was formally announced in late 1988"

 

See no problem here?

 

 

Technically the WZ-132-1 is a tank from 80s as well, so it's not THAT out of the place as long as it's technologically okay for in-game. The tank just seems boring and replacing the 121 with it makes absolutely no sense. Then again, WG is testing a f*cking prototype of a T-64 as a tier 8 LT premium, so...


Edited by leggasiini, 15 September 2018 - 03:16 PM.


FataLsToKE #13 Posted 15 September 2018 - 03:25 PM

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Jaguar tank looks too modern for a game like World of Tanks. WZ-122-1 can be better replacement for 121.

 

The WZ-122 project was a late Cold War Chinese medium tank project, designed in the context of the Sino-Soviet split. The main goal was to create a tank to rival other Main Battle Tanks (MBTs) of the epoch, such as the Soviet T-62 and German Leopard. At this time, relations with the Soviet Union were deteriorating and China was not going to be getting any new tanks or technological assistance from the Soviets. The Cultural Revolution had also just started, which would have a very negative effect on tank engineers, who were often deemed as part of the educated class and purged.

 

After capturing and reverse engineering a T-62 tank in the Sino-Soviet Border Conflict (1969), the WZ-122 project began. The first iteration, the WZ-122-1, featured 4 wire-guided missiles and a 120mm smoothbore gun, but did not reach past the prototype stage. In the late 1960s, China was still using the Type 59 (a license production of the T-54A) and tanks derived from it. Due to a range of technical and political issues, many WZ-122 projects never left the prototype stage, including the WZ-122-1.

 

 

 

 



MrEdweird #14 Posted 15 September 2018 - 03:28 PM

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Can it not just be a Type 69/79?

121B is basically something like that.


Edited by MrEdweird, 15 September 2018 - 03:30 PM.


lnfernaI #15 Posted 15 September 2018 - 03:32 PM

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View PostFataLsToKE, on 15 September 2018 - 04:25 PM, said:

WZ-122-1 can be better replacement for -

 

 No. 

Nothing will replace 121.

 

 



snowlywhite #16 Posted 15 September 2018 - 04:49 PM

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View Postleggasiini, on 15 September 2018 - 03:14 PM, said:

 

30B and Leo 1 are even worse than either of those tbh, though the STB-1 I would say is down there as 3rd worst or something after the 30B and Leo 1.

 

I tried the 121 on test and it's surprisingly decent, the gun is all around pretty good. Just a power to weight ratio buff to like 17-18 hp/ton or so and the 121 is good enough. The bigger issue is that the grind to it is just horrendous

 

30b, while crappish, has a decent line getting to it. elc, amx 12t, 13 75, amx 30 - all good tanks.

 

this line is junk from tier 6 to tier 10... I mean, look at the polish line. You said you love the tier 10, so the line was worth for you despite the grind. I don't want to play tier 10, so the line is horrid for me(the tier 9, where I usually stop, is just meh). But this line? Mediocre to bad on all tiers... I mean, wtf? If you go through all that horrid grind, at least make it like the heavy line, where tier 9 and 10 are good.

 

and leo being worst - well, let's not talk about it. Obviously it's worst, but we all know leo has it's own special category. Leo is leo; that's it :P


Edited by snowlywhite, 15 September 2018 - 04:51 PM.


lnfernaI #17 Posted 15 September 2018 - 07:57 PM

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View Postsnowlywhite, on 15 September 2018 - 05:49 PM, said:

 

30b, while crappish, has a decent line getting to it. elc, amx 12t, 13 75, amx 30 - all good tanks.

 

this line is junk from tier 6 to tier 10... I mean, look at the polish line. You said you love the tier 10, so the line was worth for you despite the grind. I don't want to play tier 10, so the line is horrid for me(the tier 9, where I usually stop, is just meh). But this line? Mediocre to bad on all tiers... I mean, wtf? If you go through all that horrid grind, at least make it like the heavy line, where tier 9 and 10 are good.

 

and leo being worst - well, let's not talk about it. Obviously it's worst, but we all know leo has it's own special category. Leo is leo; that's it :P

 

You are junk. In every sense of this word.




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