Jump to content


Asking German Tank Experts Advice


  • This topic is locked This topic is locked
64 replies to this topic

TungstenHitman #1 Posted 09 October 2017 - 12:31 AM

    Brigadier

  • Player
  • 21477 battles
  • 4,000
  • Member since:
    08-28-2016

Hey guys,

 

The short question, VK1P or VK1D? and Tiger1 or Tiger(P). and why?

 

The expanded, fall asleep version.

 

I am looking at two tiers, tier6 and tier7. I like German tanks they are just a bit classier than other nations aren't they? They also play on my strings that enjoy playing tanks that are infamous and historical, though no less than the likes of the T-34 etc. Anyway I am looking to expand my tier6 medium tank line up which I'm really enjoying at the moment. I currently have a T-34-85M, regular T34-85 and a VK1M which I would recommend it's a great tank plus for those history lovers, when fully upgraded it's more Panther than the actual Panther looks like when fully upgraded.. 

 

Thing is, I would like to expand that collection and my options are the VK1P or the VK1D. These also unlock the Tiger1 or Tiger(P). So then, which tank and why? The VK1D has less alpha but appears at a glance to be similar to the Cromwell only with better and slopped hull armour.. little more nimble but slightly slower, looks great too. The VK1P looks horrible tbh, awkward and ungainly but forget what it looks like it's stats are really nice and has an 88 with much better alpha, so with each successful pen that's around 220 dmg in the bank, best tier6 MT alpha? very nice anyway. So which is better?

 

Then the HT line up, Tiger1 or TigerP, 

 

Reasons for Tiger1.. well it's a TIGER1!!! God I love that historical connection

 

 

But then I have found the TigerP to be a real handful whenever I fight them, 200mm of front plate, twice that of a Tiger1, what's the catch?



Coldspell #2 Posted 09 October 2017 - 12:33 AM

    Captain

  • Player
  • 19214 battles
  • 2,123
  • Member since:
    08-12-2013

View PostTungstenHitman, on 08 October 2017 - 11:31 PM, said:

 

But then I have found the TigerP to be a real handful whenever I fight them, 200mm of front plate, twice that of a Tiger1, what's the catch?

 

Dpm & Mobility also the Tiger P's armour turns to wet cardboard vs semi-competent players.

Tiger H is nearly always > Tiger P.



BKatt #3 Posted 09 October 2017 - 12:49 AM

    Staff Sergeant

  • Player
  • 32474 battles
  • 458
  • Member since:
    04-28-2013

The germans was my first nation to grind. And yes i completely agree with you, alot more class to them than any other nation.

 

About the VKs, i cant recall playing them much.

 

But i easily say that ive enjoyed my Tiger 1 alot more than the P.

 

For me it came down to the DPM, very pleasing to the eyes and its a historical beast with no equal.

 

Also in the current meta, both Tiger 1 and Tiger P's armor will be shat on, so pick the one with the better gun, so you can return the pain.:girl:



Iron_Snake #4 Posted 09 October 2017 - 01:11 AM

    Warrant Officer

  • Player
  • 37823 battles
  • 793
  • [QSF] QSF
  • Member since:
    09-03-2011

Used to play Tiger P after the 1 and got better results. Armor counts on range, players cant shot ure week spots, aim good and side scrape, better armor means better defense, better dpm means more fun :harp:
 



qqq10 #5 Posted 09 October 2017 - 01:30 AM

    Corporal

  • Player
  • 23497 battles
  • 198
  • Member since:
    04-24-2013

Can't really say much how the VK's perform right now, I've played them all a long time ago. The Porshe I remember was quite fun, my biggest complaint was the low pen - and they buffed that. Daimler and Man are similar, the difference is that you get a bit better gun, armor and more HP on M, while the D is faster and has gun mantlet that can bounce some weird shots. If you're going for a Tiger H then you'll also hit the VK 36. It used to be my favorite tank, could easily stand up to the infamous Sport - even though it was my first tier VI I managed to hold quite nice 900 avg DMG. Unfortunately, they castrated it when they made it HT :confused: Don't have a clue how it is now.

 

Now, about the Tigers... Unless you want any of the tanks unlocked from it then there is absolutely no point in playing the Porche (unless you're a masochist). They could chop the HP a bit, put it on tier VI and it still would be borderline bad. It has no armor - obvious weakspots like the coupola and those sloped side parts of the hull (which also make sidescraping pointless), mantlet and lower plate made out of cheese, turret roof overmatched by anything above 75mm. Even if  for some reason they're shooting at the thickest armor the only thing they need to do is to press 2, because those plates aren't angled at all...  And of course, according to WG if the thing has 200mm of armor written in stats then it means it's armored and doesn't need a good gun or mobility (unless it's russian ofc). It's a giant paper boulder with crappy gun - even though the long 88 is one of my favorite guns in this game I just couldn't make it work with that DPM and aim time...

I played the Henschel long before any of the buffs, but even just by looking at the stats I can tell it's better - you get the same lack of armor but every other thing (apart from gun elevation) is better.

 



Balc0ra #6 Posted 09 October 2017 - 01:58 AM

    Field Marshal

  • Player
  • 65953 battles
  • 16,076
  • [WALL] WALL
  • Member since:
    07-10-2012

Tiger P is a waste of time atm. Armor is useless most times, and that long reload vs alpha makes it less then ideal in just about any 1 on 1 vs say the Tiger 1.  Tier 6 VK1P is actually not bad. Not played it in ages, but did take it for a spin after it got a mobility buff a while back.

 

Never played the VK1D, but the tier 7 VK2D was a terrible grind. I did it back before the Indien Pz came to unlock it on day one. And ran derp with it "back when HEAT had 150 pen" as the other guns was way worse back then.

 

 



Liviguy #7 Posted 09 October 2017 - 02:28 AM

    Staff Sergeant

  • Player
  • 12461 battles
  • 345
  • Member since:
    01-12-2016
Vk3001p is a fun tank, once you have all the modules, gun unlocked, grind was bad. Not played the other medium yet. Tiger H is a better tank, but I do ok in the Tiger P too, but it does need a little buff, perhaps a slight increase in top speed would be nice. Have you played the pzIV, tier 5 German medium, a fun tank with the deep gun. There is also the premium tier 7 vk4503, nice tank, lovely gun.

Captain_Kremen0 #8 Posted 09 October 2017 - 12:07 PM

    Second Lieutenant

  • Player
  • 37041 battles
  • 1,347
  • Member since:
    06-04-2011

Swapped over my crew to the Tiger P when they changed the tech tree so that it was needed to grind the tier 8s

Same gun (different stats) and same crew now couldn't hit a fecking barn from the inside. Its also sooooo slow.



Ze_HOFF_fverhoef #9 Posted 09 October 2017 - 12:34 PM

    Lieutenant Сolonel

  • Player
  • 15159 battles
  • 3,136
  • [T-D-U] T-D-U
  • Member since:
    03-18-2012

Didn't play the Tiger P, but I did like the Tiger 1. Don't expect it to be a brawling heavy, though it's armour that can bounce quite some lower tiers when angled correctly. The gun is nice.

 

Vk30.01(d) over Vk30.01(p). The D just plays a lot more like a medium, and is far more enjoyable. I didn't do bad in the P though. So it's more a matter of preference. The P is again a bit more brawly than the D. The D is good at ramming small tanks though :)



Uebergewicht #10 Posted 09 October 2017 - 01:01 PM

    Second Lieutenant

  • Player
  • 11702 battles
  • 1,035
  • [ATD] ATD
  • Member since:
    11-15-2015

The VK 30.01 P is an awesome tank and my favorite tier 6 medium. While a bit big for a medium, it is surprisingly mobile, and the 88mm is really awesome, combining great alpha and great dpm, which really lets you wreck other tanks. Gun handling is okay, just remember to let the gun aim when you use it at range, and when you do, you are usually rewarded with juicy damage. The penetration is also really okay by now, outclassing tanks like the E8 and E2 by quite a bit.

While the hull armor is pretty bad, as it is big, thin, and boxy, the turret is actually pretty decent with about 150mm effective and usable 8 degrees of gun depression.

Originally grinded through the tank, not knowing what to expect, and easily got two gun marks with a shitty crew, as that tank just works. Can easily recommend it.

 

Regarding the Tigers: Tiger H any time. Tiger P trades gun performance, speed and dpm for a bit of extra armor that is super unreliable against anyonw who knows what they´re doing. Its okay to occasionally roll over some clueless lower tiers, but wont save you from anything serious, where you have to hang back and rely on the gun anyway - which the Tiger H does better in every way.

The only other advantage the Tiger P has is that the front mounted turret makes peeking a bit easier - but then again it makes side-scraping harder, and side armor is the same on both, so the Tiger H is the betetr scraper as well. Go for Tiger H.



leggasiini #11 Posted 09 October 2017 - 01:04 PM

    Lieutenant General

  • Player
  • 13340 battles
  • 6,157
  • [-GLO-] -GLO-
  • Member since:
    12-01-2012

VK D is generally okay but a worse Cromwell with bit more trollish armor. VK P is quite nasty with the 220 alpha, mobility and so on, though. 

 

Tiger I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Tiger P, and lets see why:

 

Tiger P's advantages over Tiger I:

 

- irrelevant strip of extra armor...that is ruined by having titanic amount of weakspots

 

Tiger I's advantages over Tiger P:

 

- mobility

- HP

- gun depression

- gun handling

- DPM

- probably better overall at sidescraping (lol) because no hull cheeks and same turret

- its a Tiger I



HassenderZerhacker #12 Posted 09 October 2017 - 01:26 PM

    Captain

  • Player
  • 26759 battles
  • 2,358
  • [1DPG] 1DPG
  • Member since:
    09-09-2015

I two marked both the VK 30.01P and the Tiger I.

Both are great tanks, but the VK 30.01P suffers more from bad MM than the Tiger I, due to the Tiger's great gun that can still punish tier 9 by flanking.

 

I I would say the VK 30.01P is like a Tiger 131 or a SP nr. VI on steroids, especially considering its mobility. let's be honest, hull armor on Tiger H is never that useful, and the VK 30.01P has a similar turret with similar armor of 150-160mm effective that lets it use hull down positions with 8° gun dep and bounce many shots. Even if on par with others on the same tier, its gun pen is not that good and will suffer vs. tier 7 and tier 8. Gold ammo gives that gun the same pen as a Tiger I though.

 

Another domain where the VK 30.01P really shines is ramming. This thing is both heavy (38t) and fast (55Kph +) and does massive damage when it rams anything.

VK 30.01P is one of my favorite tier 6 meds and probably one of the most overlooked gems.

 

Much has been written about the Tiger I already.

I play it as a support heavy or sniper depending on map.

Don't listen to the haters and abuse the Tiger's awesome gun with 0.31 disp and 2400+ DPM as much as possible while staying out of the enemy's viewrange in the first minutes of the battle. As the battle advances, you still got plenty of HP to finish off dangerous enemies.

 



TungstenHitman #13 Posted 09 October 2017 - 01:55 PM

    Brigadier

  • Player
  • 21477 battles
  • 4,000
  • Member since:
    08-28-2016

Thanks guys,

 

Really insightful comments as always :)

 

I'm was really close to pulling the trigger on purchasing the VK1D since it looked very cromwell like and quick and nimble but you changed my mind to the ugly duckling VK1P. Looks like a tough grind but I'll just camp and plink my way through the modules and at the end will not just have another what you describe as really good tier6 medium for my collection but also have that infamous Tiger. Dare I say the VK1P with it's similar turret values and similar 88 is also a really good trainer for what to expect and how to play the Tiger by the time it's unlocked?

Inclined to agree with the Tiger P opinions of a slower tank with inferior gun handling and dpm not being worth the trade for some extra frontal armour which, as you say, doesn't really work against anything higher tiered of which, with the 3-5-7 system it will invariably be facing all the time.. plus slow heavy tanks, arty magnets and all that..

 

Just one thing though, do you have to spend all battle long enduring clueless haters? Having the map clicked on your tank all the time when you play it as a sniper and support tank? and get hate messages all battle long and after? "idiot noob HT! all report!!" "uninstall u absolute loser!!" "you're a heavy tank, you push flank!" and well.. you know how it goes lol. 



arthurwellsley #14 Posted 09 October 2017 - 01:55 PM

    Major

  • Player
  • 51456 battles
  • 2,889
  • [-B-C-] -B-C-
  • Member since:
    05-11-2011

vk30.01D I found that the grind through this tank was not too bad. At the time I did it, there was a Panther here and not the vk30.02M, and the Panther there at the time was a horrible underpowered grind compared to the vk30.01D which felt useful even without it's elite elements. When the lines were changed I received a free vk30.02M which I played for awhile. The vk30.02M I received had all it's modules and so was elite. My feel for it was the vk30.02M was better in it's niche than the vk30.01D. In the end I sold both the vk30.01D and the vk30.02M. I suspect I would buy back the M before the D.

 

vk30.01P I still have in the garage with a fairly competent crew. The alpha was always a nasty surprise for enemies. It received a recent buff which made it easier to play. This is a fun tank no doubt about it.

 

I did better grinding through them in the Tiger (P), which although annoyingly slow and with the slow reload could be made to work, if you angled the armour, and hid the lfp. Meanwhile the Tiger 1 is much more iconic. However, WG have cycled through buffing and nerfing it. At the present moment the Tiger 1 is riding high on the crest of a wave in that cycle, so it's rather good. But be very carefull, it's a support heavy and even when top tier it cannot really lead the line in the way the Tiger(P) can. However the Tiger 1 can be much more devastating to the enemy than the Tiger (P), but needs more careful tactical play and positioning.

 

The Tiger 1 even though a support heavy, has to be near enough to other allies to support them. Do not make the mistake of red line sniping in it. Put it in the action just not quite at the front in the beginning, although end game it can lead the line if finishing off low health enemies with it's punishing dpm. Although the armour is modest, if angled it will bounce enemy fire just not consistently. But it has a relatively large hp pool to make up for that. So be close enough to support, and your hp can soak up a few shots while you gain two on ones in support of frontline tanks, even if your armour cannot.


Edited by arthurwellsley, 09 October 2017 - 01:59 PM.


magkiln #15 Posted 09 October 2017 - 02:00 PM

    Warrant Officer

  • Player
  • 23812 battles
  • 748
  • [EKKE] EKKE
  • Member since:
    09-21-2015

The VKs are problematic. The 3001P has good mobility, but bad armour, a mediocre gun and it's an enormous target. The 3001D  is a typical mid-tier german tank. It has to fight at range, because it's a terrible brawler. (Same with the 3002M, 3002D and the Panther)  Honestly, I wouldn't spend more time on either than you have to. They are tanks to grind past.

on your way to better tanks.

As for the heavies, go with the Tiger. It's better than the Tiger P in all respects, excpet armour and the armour on the Tiger P is deceptive. It's good on paper, but everybody knows the weakspots. The only thing that makes the Tiger P useful right now is its position in the Techtree. It links to 4 other tanks.



vasilinhorulezz #16 Posted 09 October 2017 - 02:09 PM

    Second Lieutenant

  • Player
  • 22794 battles
  • 1,097
  • Member since:
    09-26-2014

I can't anwser the first question,

but in the second (Tiger vs Tiger (P), the answer is clearly in favor of the Tiger,

Tiger (P) is 

- Slow

- Dpm is way worse

and the most important

armor doesn't really work unless your fighting braindead enemies, good frontal hull armor of 200 but with sooo many weakspots, also the 30 mm of turret top which almost everything can overmatch.

Did I mention it's slooooow? 35 top speed which you never see even going downhill.



SuedKAT #17 Posted 09 October 2017 - 02:28 PM

    Lieutenant General

  • Player
  • 12154 battles
  • 6,363
  • [T-D-U] T-D-U
  • Member since:
    08-21-2014

The Tiger P is something you play to get further up the line, the Tiger I on the other hand is quite decent for what it is, it's perhaps a bit more map dependent than for example the IS/IS2, the T29 or the Jap Monstrosity, but the DPM, Pen and HP pool can pull off quite a bit if you play it with it's strong sides in mind. The Tiger I even do quite ok vs high tiers something which can't really be said about the Tiger P. I must admit thought that I quite enjoyed my Tiger P, it's one of those tanks that do well vs low skilled players, your armor is in the right click auto aim area, but vs anyone that have a clue your dead.

 

The VK1P is horrible, it's one of the few mid tier tanks I've ever been tempted to free XP past, sure I played it before they buffed the pen on the top gun and sure it can be quite satisfying to put that high alpha to use when you're top tier, but that's it, I'd rather be in any other MT of the same tier than the VK1P. I've never played the VK1D but it seems quite nice to be honest, if you're looking for a "keeper" and decide between the two I'd go with the VK1D any time. In the end however I guess it comes down to what you're grinding towards, the VK1P offers quite an extensive tree above it, you can get to the Maus, the Pz Kpfw VII and the Jg Pz E100, the VK1D on the other hand leads to the Leopard and just that.



Liviguy #18 Posted 09 October 2017 - 02:46 PM

    Staff Sergeant

  • Player
  • 12461 battles
  • 345
  • Member since:
    01-12-2016

View PostSuedKAT, on 09 October 2017 - 02:28 PM, said:

The Tiger P is something you play to get further up the line, the Tiger I on the other hand is quite decent for what it is, it's perhaps a bit more map dependent than for example the IS/IS2, the T29 or the Jap Monstrosity, but the DPM, Pen and HP pool can pull off quite a bit if you play it with it's strong sides in mind. The Tiger I even do quite ok vs high tiers something which can't really be said about the Tiger P. I must admit thought that I quite enjoyed my Tiger P, it's one of those tanks that do well vs low skilled players, your armor is in the right click auto aim area, but vs anyone that have a clue your dead.

 

The VK1P is horrible, it's one of the few mid tier tanks I've ever been tempted to free XP past, sure I played it before they buffed the pen on the top gun and sure it can be quite satisfying to put that high alpha to use when you're top tier, but that's it, I'd rather be in any other MT of the same tier than the VK1P. I've never played the VK1D but it seems quite nice to be honest, if you're looking for a "keeper" and decide between the two I'd go with the VK1D any time. In the end however I guess it comes down to what you're grinding towards, the VK1P offers quite an extensive tree above it, you can get to the Maus, the Pz Kpfw VII and the Jg Pz E100, the VK1D on the other hand leads to the Leopard and just that.

I have to disagree, once you get the vk3001p fully researched and with a decent crew, it’s a fun tank which can deal out a fair amount of damage and have a good impact on the game.



Captain_Kremen0 #19 Posted 09 October 2017 - 02:50 PM

    Second Lieutenant

  • Player
  • 37041 battles
  • 1,347
  • Member since:
    06-04-2011

tbh none of the german meds is too onerous a grind, unlike some other tech trees, for two reasons.

1 - they aren't really terribad or too drawn out.

2 - they have something at the end of them to look forward to.


Edited by Captain_Kremen0, 09 October 2017 - 02:53 PM.


Liviguy #20 Posted 09 October 2017 - 02:53 PM

    Staff Sergeant

  • Player
  • 12461 battles
  • 345
  • Member since:
    01-12-2016

View PostCaptain_Kremen0, on 09 October 2017 - 02:50 PM, said:

tbh none of the german meds is too onerous a grind, unlike some other tech trees, for too reasons.

1 - they aren't really terribad or too drawn out.

2 - they have something at the end of them to look forward to.

I’ve got bad memories of the vk3001p grind, it was before the last buff though. It had 720 hp, less than a Cromwell but is the size of a Tiger. WG reasoning I suppose. But I enjoy the tank now.






1 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users