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Is there a particular reason why the 430 is so abysmally bad?


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HundeWurst #1 Posted 09 October 2017 - 11:18 PM

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Yes?

 

Compared to the other two grindable russian tier 10 tanks that tank.... Why did they buff the turret armor of the 140 but left this poor soul as it is?



ValkyrionX #2 Posted 09 October 2017 - 11:29 PM

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a very good question Wunder ..i think they dont know what to do and how with t62a, obj140 and obj430..

 



Aikl #3 Posted 09 October 2017 - 11:36 PM

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Multiple FOTM tanks are bad for business. 430's time will surely come, especially now that they've buffed the Patton and are buffing the CAX as well.

 

My guess would be differentiating the 430, T-62A and 140 a bit more. -10 gun depression on the 430 and a 115mm smoothbore on the T-62. I'm calling it. What? No, Soviet guns can magically clip through anything. Smoothbore ban? Please, don't stand in the way of the Proletarian revolution.


Edited by Aikl, 09 October 2017 - 11:37 PM.


ValkyrionX #4 Posted 09 October 2017 - 11:46 PM

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View PostAikl, on 09 October 2017 - 11:36 PM, said:

Multiple FOTM tanks are bad for business. 430's time will surely come, especially now that they've buffed the Patton and are buffing the CAX as well.

 

My guess would be differentiating the 430, T-62A and 140 a bit more. -10 gun depression on the 430 and a 115mm smoothbore on the T-62. I'm calling it. What? No, Soviet guns can magically clip through anything. Smoothbore ban? Please, don't stand in the way of the Proletarian revolution.

 

-10 GUN DEPRESSION ON A RUSSIAN MT ????????????

 

I hope you're not serius, anyway the t62 and the 140 are good how they are at the present state of the game (except some no sense buff to the obj140 turret )..the obj430 need to be different but..how? more armor?? more alpha dmg (nerf dmp/reload time) and a new gun to be different from the other 2 rusky meds? no one knows



Obsessive_Compulsive #5 Posted 10 October 2017 - 01:05 AM

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View PostAikl, on 09 October 2017 - 11:36 PM, said:

Multiple FOTM tanks are bad for business. 430's time will surely come, especially now that they've buffed the Patton and are buffing the CAX as well.

 

My guess would be differentiating the 430, T-62A and 140 a bit more. -10 gun depression on the 430 and a 115mm smoothbore on the T-62. I'm calling it. What? No, Soviet guns can magically clip through anything. Smoothbore ban? Please, don't stand in the way of the Proletarian revolution.

 

How is the new world Edited  going?

 

This post has been edited by the moderation team due to inappropriate remarks. 


Edited by VMX, 11 October 2017 - 11:30 AM.


Strizi #6 Posted 10 October 2017 - 01:32 AM

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430 is the balanced sovjet med, the other 3 are too strong. :popcorn::bajan:

Edited by Strizi, 10 October 2017 - 01:33 AM.


Fandral #7 Posted 10 October 2017 - 03:57 AM

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It is not, it is the best one of the three. It is the only one of them I have a decent win rate in. 430 56% (444 games played), 140 51% (839), t-62a 45% (244).

 

Maybe there is something wrong with me?



sgtYester #8 Posted 10 October 2017 - 04:11 AM

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for sure

 

140 is best then t62 then 430



adameitas #9 Posted 10 October 2017 - 07:17 AM

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Bc wg wants to say "hey look not all t10 soviets meds are OP.." To be honest 430 is well balanced. So if i wanna play t10 soviet medium i pick 430 since playing 140/907/62 are simply cheating.

ZlatanArKung #10 Posted 10 October 2017 - 08:00 AM

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View PostValkyrionX, on 09 October 2017 - 11:46 PM, said:

 

-10 GUN DEPRESSION ON A RUSSIAN MT ????????????

 

I hope you're not serius, anyway the t62 and the 140 are good how they are at the present state of the game (except some no sense buff to the obj140 turret )..the obj430 need to be different but..how? more armor?? more alpha dmg (nerf dmp/reload time) and a new gun to be different from the other 2 rusky meds? no one knows

 

It is WG we are talking about. Nothing is impossible.

 

They could give T-62A a 400 alpha 115mm gun with 10 degrees of gun depression.  Keep reload speed at same number, increase hull armour and release it as a "balanced" tank.



HundeWurst #11 Posted 10 October 2017 - 08:20 AM

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View Postadameitas, on 10 October 2017 - 07:17 AM, said:

Bc wg wants to say "hey look not all t10 soviets meds are OP.." To be honest 430 is well balanced. So if i wanna play t10 soviet medium i pick 430 since playing 140/907/62 are simply cheating.

 

Thats a bold satement. Compared to the M48Patton that turd is not balanced. There is not a single reason to play the 430 over the Patton, yet there is a reason to pick the 140 over the Patton.

dennez #12 Posted 10 October 2017 - 08:28 AM

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View PostAikl, on 09 October 2017 - 11:36 PM, said:

Multiple FOTM tanks are bad for business. 430's time will surely come, especially now that they've buffed the Patton and are buffing the CAX as well.

 

My guess would be differentiating the 430, T-62A and 140 a bit more. -10 gun depression on the 430 and a 115mm smoothbore on the T-62. I'm calling it. What? No, Soviet guns can magically clip through anything. Smoothbore ban? Please, don't stand in the way of the Proletarian revolution.

 

This.. It's on a nice, separate shitty line and knowing WG they'll eventually buff this tank into another OP FOTM, making sure droves of players grind up the line to get it. All in due time..

Aikl #13 Posted 10 October 2017 - 09:03 AM

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View PostConor_Notorious_McGregor, on 10 October 2017 - 12:05 AM, said:

 

How is the new world holocausting going?

 

Let's se...

 

View PostValkyrionX, on 09 October 2017 - 10:46 PM, said:

 

-10 GUN DEPRESSION ON A RUSSIAN MT ????????????

 

I hope you're not serius, anyway the t62 and the 140 are good how they are at the present state of the game (except some no sense buff to the obj140 turret )..the obj430 need to be different but..how? more armor?? more alpha dmg (nerf dmp/reload time) and a new gun to be different from the other 2 rusky meds? no one knows

 

Splendid!

 

Buffing something that's good enough is hardly a new thing. Random players making jokes is a good as a source as WG sometimes, too. Dennez got the meaning, anyway.

(I couldn't find a good reason for suddenly introducing a smoothbore gun anyway.)

 



arthurwellsley #14 Posted 10 October 2017 - 09:20 AM

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The cousins; 907, 140, T62A, 430 and 121. In that order.

When they came into the game first off, the 140 had the lighter armour and better gun handling/depression, the T62A had the hard turret and less gun depression, and the 430 had a little more armour and dpm with still less gun depression, and lastly the 121 had more alpha, and the least gun handling and depression.

 

Now the previous distinctions have been blurred, especially with the 907 added and then over buffed.

 

Looking at the actual designs built;

Object 430 = first prototype = gun D-54TS and 120mm frontal armour

Object 430U = gun; 120mm gun and 160mm frontal armour. The gun referred to appears to be 122mm D-25T gun (some sources suggest that a 130mm gun was also considered). In game the D-25T is a tier VIII gun, and that just would not do.

Object 432 = gun;115 mm D-68 (2A21) loaded by an electro-hydraulic automatic system (allowed height and weight to be substantially reduced).

Object 432 = version 2. Keeps the gun, adds more spaced armour (heavier), and a more powerful engine. Is deemed superior to the T62 and goes into production as T64, and at first is only given to elite tank units.

But  the T64 has a problem, it can only carry 25 shells because it has 125 mm D-81T gun.

T64A = keeps the 125 mm D-81T gun (this is a scaled up smooth bore 115mm used on T62). But it adds the 6ETs10 autoloader has 28 rounds and can fire 8 shots per minute; the stabiliser, a 2E23, was coupled to the new TPD-2-1 (1G15-1) sight.

 

However the USSR was nothing if not prolific with it's prototypes. At the same time as the Object 432 was being tested they built another three prototypes with a different engine configuration;

Object 436 (three built) said to be derived from the Object 434 (not sure about that one)

Object 438 - seems a more powerful engine but also appears to get renamed as Object 439 (four built)

Object 476 - even more powerful engine

Object 447 - laser gunsight, and ability to fire missiles from the main gun

Object 437 - no missile capacity (cheaper to produce)

 

Both the 447 and 437 go into production simultaneously as T64B (has the D-81Tm gun (2A46-2) gun, and a 6ETs40 loader) and T64B1.

T64B carries 8 missiles and 28 shells.

T64B1 carries 37 shells.

More of the T64B1s were produced than T64B, because the non-missile version was cheaper.

 

In game at the moment the models carry the following guns;

907 = 100 mm D-54TS

140 = 100 mm U-8TS

T62A = 100 mm U-8TS

430 = 100 mm U-8TS

121 = 122 mm 60-122TG

 

TL;DR

So to buff the Object 430 and make it distinct from the cousins consider (a) 115 mm D-68 (2A21) gun, (b) 125mm gun. In game the gun options include 122 mm BL-9 (tier IX) and 122 mm M62-T2 (tier X), or find something else the USSR experiemented with and used. Logically it should have the 125 mm D-81T gun. Lastly and most controversial (c.) autoloader.

 

PS when the Object 430 was first on test the armour was Hull armor: 160/80/50mm, whereas in game now it is 120/80/40 mm.


Edited by arthurwellsley, 10 October 2017 - 09:53 AM.


Cobra6 #15 Posted 10 October 2017 - 09:56 AM

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Because it's balanced for this game 3-4 years ago when advantages like DPM had *actual* drawbacks in other areas (gun accuracy/handling), see also STB-1.

 

Nowadays this balancing is almost completely abandoned and having great DPM is not offset anymore by having bad gun handling or bad mobility or no armour.

 

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leggasiini #16 Posted 10 October 2017 - 10:01 AM

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Its balanced by the same balance team who thought that the Type 5 "changes" in 9.20 were completely fine when the guns on it were (and still are) the by far the biggest problem on it, same team who thought that Maus needs even more buffs when it was in 9.17.1 test server but Pz VII needed nerf (even tho Maus was already better than Pz VII), the fact FV4005 even managed to get as far as the test server with that damn medium tank mobility, etc etc.

 

That being said, there were some changes planned for all of the 3 Russian top tier mediums in 9.20 but they decided to postpone it as they were afraid to completely change playstyles of popular tier 10s like the Batchat. You can look at T-54 guns: Obj 140 was probably meant to get more DPM and gun handling but worse accuracy and penetration, while T62A would get more penetration and accuracy but worse DPM. Object 430 I dont know though - logical change would be replacing it with a rear-turretted design with a powerful gun but limited traverse angles - think an Obj 416 on steroids.


Edited by leggasiini, 10 October 2017 - 10:04 AM.


leggasiini #17 Posted 10 October 2017 - 10:06 AM

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View Postarthurwellsley, on 10 October 2017 - 10:20 AM, said:

Object 430U = gun; 120mm gun and 160mm frontal armour. The gun referred to appears to be 122mm D-25T gun (some sources suggest that a 130mm gun was also considered). In game the D-25T is a tier VIII gun, and that just would not do.

Keep on mind that any tank that had D-25T could theoretically also mount the M-62T, so giving Object 430U a M-62T would actually work well. If that tank arrives to the game it probably would be a heavy, though.



N00BT00B #18 Posted 10 October 2017 - 11:49 AM

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The 430 has good camo and a low profile.. its the best spotter once your idiot light tanks have all died.

I have better xp per game in 430 than 140 but 140 has better win rate.
Go figure.

TankkiPoju #19 Posted 10 October 2017 - 12:40 PM

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View PostWunderWurst, on 09 October 2017 - 11:18 PM, said:

Yes?

 

Compared to the other two grindable russian tier 10 tanks that tank.... Why did they buff the turret armor of the 140 but left this poor soul as it is?

 

- T62A and Object 140 can be grinded from T-54, but that grind costs a lot of credits due to T-54 being so expensive... so it LITERALLY PAYS WG money to have these tanks as good, because people will buy premium time and premium vehicles to grind them. If Obj140 and T62A were bad, no one would grind 400k XP with T-54.

 

- so why is 430 bad? Because it hasn't been buffed yet. As soon as enough people have grinded Obj140 and T62A, WG will buff 430 like crazy and thus make people grind that tank.

 

Literally every buff or nerf tier 10 tanks can be explained with business decisions, it's all about what tanks WG wants you to grind next.

 

 Mark my words, 430 will be buffed as next "Object907" in future.

 



vasilinhorulezz #20 Posted 10 October 2017 - 01:24 PM

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I don't think it's bad, probably unpopular due to the grind, most likely.

It has the best dpm compared to the other two.






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