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Derp-gun targeting unspotted tanks


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KaoticSanity #1 Posted 10 October 2017 - 08:21 PM

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Heyo lads.
 

I'm a fairly knowledgeable player, having played it pretty much since the beta, I just don't play all that often.

I've never really played around that much with derp-guns, except on lower tier tanks, which usually don't last often, and maybe the KV2 (Tier 5 KV with the 152 and KV-2 turret back in the old days), since the long aim-time, shell velocity etc never really took my fancy. 

But after trying them out a bit more - I've taken up both the american and british Shermans, and having quite a bit of fun with them, I kinda get it - the KV-2 has always been fun, no matter how much of a tomato you are.
 

There's one problem that I can't see mentioned anywhere, and thats firing at tanks hidden on ridgelines, specifically where you don't have anything on the "background", other than the sky (AKA shooting "upwards", if you can phrase it that way). 
I was recently playing in one of the Shermans on Live Oaks, going on the med flank. I had gotten 3-4 kills and around 1k dmg (not that it matters) within a short period of time, pretty low on HP, and we were pushing through from the southern spawn. We were coming up on the base, I was on the lower end (western side of the train-tracks) when a M3 Lee of all things appeared on one of the hills, spotting me. He was in a bush, so I aimed up as he wasn't looking my way. A splitsecond before I fired he went unspotted, me aiming at exactly the spot where he was sitting, the shell went miles above where I aimed. I've had this happen before, and I get the gist of WHY it is happening (Going for the height the shell arc needs to "hit" whatever is the furthest point it can find in the sky), it just seems so stupid, and a rather big downside of the gun-type. It lost me that game, since I couldn't remove the tank that kept on spotting me as I tried to kill the returning defenders. 

Now in general I dislike the derp-guns, especially high-tier, but they're in the game, have always been, so is there any way to work around this, can it be fixed somehow, or should it just stay that way?

 

TLDR; Derp guns when shooting at something that gets unspotted whose "background" is the sky makes the shell go sky-high - is there a way to work around it, should it be fixed, should it stay that way?
Maybe we can even learn to use this to our advantage if we're against a derp-gun in game.

 

Thanks for reading my blabbering, I just got immensely frustrated by this "feature" of derp guns and depth-reading.



upsetti_spaghetti #2 Posted 10 October 2017 - 08:34 PM

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Yeah happens to me too, but I doubt it's on their priority list.

430Umad #3 Posted 10 October 2017 - 08:44 PM

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that's the characteristcs of the aimengine for every gun with low shell velocity. It's present for every gun type, you just recognize it less with shell velocities of ~1500 m/s for example.

 

You shouldn't expect any changes ever to happen regarding that.


Edited by JOHN_HOLLYWOOD, 10 October 2017 - 08:45 PM.


NUKLEAR_SLUG #4 Posted 10 October 2017 - 08:49 PM

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View PostKaoticSanity, on 10 October 2017 - 08:21 PM, said:

  Now in general I dislike the derp-guns, especially high-tier, but they're in the game, have always been, so is there any way to work around this, can it be fixed somehow, or should it just stay that way?

 

 

Aim at the edge of the ridge line instead and your shell will be targeted for that spot instead. Then it'll either drop low and hit the ridge or if it goes slightly high go over the edge into whatever was there.

Edited by NUKLEAR_SLUG, 10 October 2017 - 08:51 PM.


KaoticSanity #5 Posted 10 October 2017 - 09:01 PM

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View PostNUKLEAR_SLUG, on 10 October 2017 - 07:49 PM, said:

 

Aim at the edge of the ridge line instead and your shell will be targeted for that spot instead. Then it'll either drop low and hit the ridge or if it goes slightly high go over the edge into whatever was there.

 

Thats actually a valid tactic, thanks! 

Pondering more over the issue I forgot how awful derp-guns are for blind-firing in any circumstance but a few, where the background actually matches where the tank would be. The depth-reading for the shells arc really is finicky. Wish you could exploit it more.



spuff #6 Posted 10 October 2017 - 09:20 PM

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Best thing about derp guns is 3rd person shooting over hills!!

tmp #7 Posted 10 October 2017 - 11:13 PM

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If your auto-aim in _not_ bound to RMB, you can use it to lock your turret while aiming.  If target becomes unspotted, your aim will not change as long as you don't release it.

 

This can also be used to approximately pre-aim in cover, and then roll out with your turret locked; if your aim is initially somewhere near the target, you usually save a bit on the bloom from turret movement.  Very useful for slow aiming derpguns.

 

And sometimes you can enable auto-aim in arcade mode, and use your derp as an ersatz arty to shoot people behing mild slopes.  This is pretty rare, though.

 

EDIT

 

This is really noticeable with something like derp T49.  Aim at distant target, lock turret, shoot when aimed (works even if spot is lost as long as the target does not move), reverse directly to cover _without releasing the turret_, drive directly out of cover _until you are aiming at the previous spot_, then release turret, adjust your aim, lock again.

 

Derp T49 has 0.10 dispersion on movement but _0.36_ on moving the turret, which means that minimizing turret movement (and moving it sloooowwwwllllyyy) can shave seconds off your aimtime.


 

EDIT 2


 

It also occassionally useful for things like shooting cupolas if enemy is inconsiderate and does not keep his turret still - aim at the cupola, lock the turret and after your reticle has finished shrinking, either wait until the target moves through your reticle or release and do final adjustment before shot.


Edited by tmp, 10 October 2017 - 11:59 PM.


Aikl #8 Posted 10 October 2017 - 11:31 PM

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There's a mod for locking at a distance (like the top of a ridge) and then reaiming. BalCalcMod, which at least last time I checked was in Aslain's mod pack and considered 'legal' per the FPP. Works very well, but ultimately of limited use. Adds another distraction.

 

IIRC it's also quite buggy, though it might be because of other mods interfering.



Pandabird #9 Posted 11 October 2017 - 07:25 AM

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Balcalc mod, assign to q button, aim at ground just in front of where you want to shoot, hold q, now aim into the bush. Boom rhm oneshotted, imaginary chat rage.

Useful mod for derp sniping indeed

HassenderZerhacker #10 Posted 11 October 2017 - 01:47 PM

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View PostPandabird, on 11 October 2017 - 07:25 AM, said:

Balcalc mod, assign to q button, aim at ground just in front of where you want to shoot, hold q, now aim into the bush. Boom rhm oneshotted, imaginary chat rage.

Useful mod for derp sniping indeed

 

this.

that mod corrects the game flaw.



Ankara_Aatu #11 Posted 12 October 2017 - 01:39 AM

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View PostAikl, on 10 October 2017 - 11:31 PM, said:

There's a mod for locking at a distance (like the top of a ridge) and then reaiming. BalCalcMod, which at least last time I checked was in Aslain's mod pack and considered 'legal' per the FPP. Works very well, but ultimately of limited use. Adds another distraction.

 

IIRC it's also quite buggy, though it might be because of other mods interfering.

 

How in seven hells can that kind of a mod be legal? It makes you able to do something that is literally impossible in vanilla, and obviously advantages you critically in some fairly frequent situations. I see absolutely no reason why that should be allowed. Obviously the functionality should be in the vanilla client, but that should have zero weight when considering which mods to allow.

Jigabachi #12 Posted 12 October 2017 - 02:00 AM

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View PostHassenderZerhacker, on 11 October 2017 - 01:47 PM, said:

this.

that mod corrects the game flaw.

But until it makes it into the game, it should, for obvious reasons, be considered a cheatmod.

 

@ topic: Yes, that's annoying. It's one of the downsides of the automatic height adjustment... 



BP_OMowe #13 Posted 12 October 2017 - 09:30 PM

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View PostAnkara_Aatu, on 12 October 2017 - 01:39 AM, said:

How in seven hells can that kind of a mod be legal? It makes you able to do something that is literally impossible in vanilla, and obviously advantages you critically in some fairly frequent situations. I see absolutely no reason why that should be allowed. Obviously the functionality should be in the vanilla client, but that should have zero weight when considering which mods to allow.

View PostJigabachi, on 12 October 2017 - 02:00 AM, said:

But until it makes it into the game, it should, for obvious reasons, be considered a cheatmod.

 

@ topic: Yes, that's annoying. It's one of the downsides of the automatic height adjustment... 

 

Because Wargaming in their Fair Play Policy states there are two kinds of mods allowed:

* Those that does not give any advantage.

* Those that gives an ingame advantage, but are considered good for the game.

Wg obviously decided they wanted the BalCalcMod tested by the userbase to see if it should be implemented later on, kept as an optional stand-alone mod, or be forbidden.


Edited by BP_OMowe, 13 October 2017 - 09:12 PM.


Ankara_Aatu #14 Posted 12 October 2017 - 09:48 PM

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View PostBP_OMowe, on 12 October 2017 - 09:30 PM, said:

 

Wg obviously decided they wanted the BalCalcMod tested by the userbase to see if it should be implemented later on.

 

And just as obviously their attitude is beyond stupid.

 

They have a perfectly functional way to let players test features, it's called the test server. Of course this isn't a big issue but it is still just another example of their half-assed policy regarding mods. If they were actually committed to the integrity of the game as a fair competitive environment, they would most certainly not allow things like this. Well, they wouldn't have to either, since the kind of basic functionality we are talking about here would obviously already be in the game  for a long time now.



Pandabird #15 Posted 13 October 2017 - 07:07 AM

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View PostJigabachi, on 12 October 2017 - 03:00 AM, said:

But until it makes it into the game, it should, for obvious reasons, be considered a cheatmod.

 

@ topic: Yes, that's annoying. It's one of the downsides of the automatic height adjustment... 

 

afaik they stated long ago they won't implement it because it'd be confusing for some (most) players

 

But they also mentioned it was totally allowed if you chose to use this mod since it's a manual input thing, not snap aiming etc.



BP_OMowe #16 Posted 13 October 2017 - 09:33 PM

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View PostAnkara_Aatu, on 12 October 2017 - 09:48 PM, said:

And just as obviously their attitude is beyond stupid.

 

They have a perfectly functional way to let players test features, it's called the test server. Of course this isn't a big issue but it is still just another example of their half-assed policy regarding mods. If they were actually committed to the integrity of the game as a fair competitive environment, they would most certainly not allow things like this. Well, they wouldn't have to either, since the kind of basic functionality we are talking about here would obviously already be in the game  for a long time now.

 

You seem to forget the most important part about the modding community: as far as Wg is concerned, they are the unpaid development and quality assurance department.

sabre_ferret #17 Posted 14 October 2017 - 11:53 AM

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It does make it all the more satisfying when you pull off a long range blind kill on a moving target with your derp.  Not that I get many of those since they gimped my VK 28.01  QQ

 






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