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Update 9.20.1: Matchmaker Improvements


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Community #1 Posted 12 October 2017 - 03:20 PM

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Teams are now balanced by classes and gameplay roles within each class, which should level out each team’s chance at victory.

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Ober__ #2 Posted 12 October 2017 - 03:24 PM

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let's hope it will improve MM, cause at this moment it's so terrible.

ogremage #3 Posted 12 October 2017 - 03:31 PM

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So platoons will still be discriminated against, just less discriminated? Not cool. Players in platoons should have the same chances of being top tier as solo players. It is meant to be a social game after all.

Edited by ogremage, 13 October 2017 - 05:31 AM.


__N7 #4 Posted 12 October 2017 - 03:34 PM

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:):great:

Seems like a good step



Useless_Pathetic_Stupid #5 Posted 12 October 2017 - 03:36 PM

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Not quite sure why the dislike of single tier matchups? These should be the priority not the exception.

markthekiller #6 Posted 12 October 2017 - 03:36 PM

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View Postogremage, on 12 October 2017 - 03:31 PM, said:

So platoons will still be discriminated against, just less discriminated? Not cool. Platoons should have the same chances of being top tier as solo players. It is meant to be a social game after all.

 

But if you want to be top tier in a platoon (lets take the 3-5-7 mm), then the platoon already takes up 2/3 (or 3/3 if you play in a platoon of 3). And if you play solo it's only 1/3. I'm not sure if this makes any sense but it sounds logic to me :hiding:

Edited by markthekiller, 12 October 2017 - 03:37 PM.


LordMatrix_ #7 Posted 12 October 2017 - 03:37 PM

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3/5/7 is not an enjoyable experience for the bottom 7. Why do you prefer 3 tier MM over 1 tier MM and isn't 1 tier MM a lot more fair? Most people would surely accept a few seconds more waiting time over being almost permanently bottom-tier. You may have previously mentioned that 1 tier MM takes away incentive to progress, but isn’t that incentive more of a stick than a carrot? Doesn’t that take away the opportunity to enjoy more tanks? Why should MM incentivize players to player tier 9 and 10 tanks, which are least profitable tiers and require the greatest amount of skill? Why don’t you allow players to enjoy playing whatever tank they want? For example, someone really likes playing tier 5 M4 Sherman, but they are more often than not sucked into playing against tier 6 and 7 tanks, which are played by more experienced players. Having 3 tier MM also makes tanks and premium ammo much harder to balance. Wouldn’t it be simpler to have 1 tier MM or at least 2 tier MM? Being pushed around by tanks with 3 times more health and alpha isn’t fun for most players (Pz. IV H vs. IS). Or at least give players the choice? Having 3 tier MM also makes platoons harder to fit in.


Edited by LordMatrix_, 12 October 2017 - 03:39 PM.


markthekiller #8 Posted 12 October 2017 - 03:41 PM

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View PostLordMatrix_, on 12 October 2017 - 03:37 PM, said:

3/5/7 is not an enjoyable experience for the bottom 7. Why do you prefer 3 tier MM over 1 tier MM and isn't 1 tier MM a lot more fair? Most people would surely accept a few seconds more waiting time over being almost permanently bottom-tier. You may have previously mentioned that 1 tier MM takes away incentive to progress, but isn’t that incentive more of a stick than a carrot? Doesn’t that take away the opportunity to enjoy more tanks? Why should MM incentivize players to player tier 9 and 10 tanks, which are least profitable tiers and require the greatest amount of skill? Why don’t you allow players to enjoy playing whatever tank they want? For example, someone really likes playing tier 5 M4 Sherman, but they are more often than not sucked into playing against tier 6 and 7 tanks, which are played my more experienced players. Having 3 tier MM also makes tanks and premium ammo much harder to balance. Wouldn’t it be simpler to have 1 tier MM or at least 2 tier MM? Being pushed around by tanks with 3 times more health and alpha isn’t fun for most players (Pz. IV H vs. IS). Or at least give players the choice? Having 3 tier MM also makes platoons harder to fit in.

 

If you kill / damage etc. higher tier tanks you will get more XP and credits. You also see more tanks so newbs have to learn their weakspots to damage them with lower penetration. So single tier battles are (for me) less fun. 

Edited by markthekiller, 12 October 2017 - 03:41 PM.


Ulicum #9 Posted 12 October 2017 - 03:42 PM

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Block Quote

  • Better chances of getting ranked at the top of the list for Platoon players: Initially, their chances of playing at the top were reduced to avoid upsetting scenarios with Platoons singlehandedly deciding the battle outcome. In direct response to community feedback, we’re raising them slightly so that you and your Platoon mates can fight at higher tiers once in a while. This won’t cause any drastic changes to the state of Random Battles, but offers a more varied experience to Platoon players. 


Sorry for my language, but friggin finally!

 



LordMatrix_ #10 Posted 12 October 2017 - 03:47 PM

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View Postmarkthekiller, on 12 October 2017 - 03:41 PM, said:

 

If you kill / damage etc. higher tier tanks you will get more XP and credits. You also see more tanks so newbs have to learn their weakspots to damage them with lower penetration. So single tier battles are (for me) less fun. 

 

The game does not show how much more XP and credits you get for damaging and killing higher tier tanks. This should be clearly shown at the end of the battle. Learning weakspots is about overcoming penetration/armor difference between tiers. What about gun soft stats, alpha, view range, HP, etc? +-1 MM would already make things much better while giving more variety than same tier MM.

Steve8066 #11 Posted 12 October 2017 - 03:47 PM

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After some extra tuning, you’ll see more 3/5/7 and 5/10 teams, which should provide for a more enjoyable experience

 

3-5-7 does NOT make a more enjoyable experience when you are constantly bottom tier so whoever on WG thinks that needs to go see a shrink. Some tanks struggle to even pen their own tier nevermind when they are facing +2.

 

WG, you give players the choice via settings of wether they want to take part in Assaults etc. so give us the choice of wether we play 3-5-7/5-10/same tier etc. Yes we might get longer queue times, but stop forcing us to take part in something some of us hate and give us the choice.

 



LordMatrix_ #12 Posted 12 October 2017 - 03:49 PM

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View PostSteve8066, on 12 October 2017 - 03:47 PM, said:

 

3-5-7 does NOT make a more enjoyable experience when you are constantly bottom tier so whoever on WG thinks that needs to go see a shrink. Some tanks struggle to even pen their own tier nevermind when they are facing +2.

 

WG, you give players the choice via settings of wether they want to take part in Assaults etc. so give us the choice of wether we play 3-5-7/5-10/same tier etc. Yes we might get longer queue times, but stop forcing us to take part in something some of us hate and give us the choice.

 

 

I wouldn't mind waiting 1 minute if it means getting same tier match. Having a choice would be great.

leggasiini #13 Posted 12 October 2017 - 03:53 PM

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> KV-5 will get matched against chrysler, o-ho, defender, liberte, and so on

 

why tho D:

 

It might be a "super heavy" but if Löwe, 112 and IS-6 can be in group 3, the KV-5 should be there as well.

 

Other than that, looks very promising, but I wont judge until I can actually try it.



SanyaJuutilainen #14 Posted 12 October 2017 - 03:55 PM

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View PostLordMatrix_, on 12 October 2017 - 03:49 PM, said:

 

I wouldn't mind waiting 1 minute if it means getting same tier match. Having a choice would be great.

 

Other games tried to take this approach. They are mostly dead. If you make people wait or split population (or god forbid both), you'll get shortly increased queues. Which will off-put some players (of course, we don't care about these, they are impatient, right?). Which will increase queues shortly. Which will off-put some other players. Which will... etc, etc. And suddenly you are waiting 10 minutes for 3-5-7 match.

 

You have to be very carefuly with these and 3-5-7 has been tested for over a year, AFAIK, to ensure the stuff I described doesn't happen. And you simply can't allow yourself to "just" throw stuff out and hope "enough" players won't enable it. Because if they will and your games dies because of it... it's too late to roll it back, usually.


Edited by SanyaJuutilainen, 12 October 2017 - 03:56 PM.


ogremage #15 Posted 12 October 2017 - 03:56 PM

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View Postmarkthekiller, on 12 October 2017 - 02:36 PM, said:

 

But if you want to be top tier in a platoon (lets take the 3-5-7 mm), then the platoon already takes up 2/3 (or 3/3 if you play in a platoon of 3). And if you play solo it's only 1/3. I'm not sure if this makes any sense but it sounds logic to me :hiding:

 

This is, of course, basic math / probability theory.

 

If each player in platoon has same chance of being top tier as they would if they were solo and that's what they mean, then it is fair. But not sure that is what they meant, it could be a lower chance.



VeniJo #16 Posted 12 October 2017 - 04:00 PM

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Does this fix broken t8 matchmaking?

Psticide #17 Posted 12 October 2017 - 04:00 PM

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maybe, just maybe the players all turned of grand battles cause its an annoying campfest map, feels bad for the people who dont know how to turn it off, not to mention how annoying it was that top of the tree missions did not work in it ....  , also platoons get punished by never being top tier ever ... 

 

MOAR MAPS NOWWWWWW


Edited by Psticide, 12 October 2017 - 04:01 PM.


activated #18 Posted 12 October 2017 - 04:00 PM

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I dont like 357 mm at all, because there is no difference if u are top tier or low tier, because if u are medium tank there is 1 or 2 spots on the map where u can go, if ure td there is 1-2 spots, same is with heavy(I do not compare heavies like is3=amx50100, who wants he will get it). There were almost no problems with MM before that 357/5-10. The biggest problem is the tunnel maps. Another crapwith that 357 or 5-10 MM are pref mm premium tanks are almost useless, because you always fight 5-10 being low tier or 3-5-7 being mid tier, its like 90% of battles. Playing tier 8 is terrible too, your most battles will be at the bottom or mid tier, never top.

 

I would rollback old MM with 3 bat25's VS 3 is7. At least on some maps, bat25's had a chance vs top heavies. BTW that old mm was not so monotonic, there were more different setups of teams and different outcome battles.

 

Another suggestion(it will never happen) is to make 1tier mm and balance tanks by tier, but there is too much problems(pref mm premiums, tanks alpha damage, penetration values.... etc...)

 

Sorry for bad English, not native.

 

 



Afdass #19 Posted 12 October 2017 - 04:04 PM

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In this past weeks I've losing my hope about the MM. After clicking the "Start" button I have already inteorizized the fact that I have 95% chance of beeing bottom tier, 4% chance of beeing middle tier and 1% chance of beeing top tier, and when I am top tier, those games are usually 1 tier MM (mainly at tier 8) where there are at least 15/20 premium tanks  and at least 4 of them are Defenders/Patriots/Libertés/Chryslers.

 

For me, the best possible MM is the 5/10 until tier 8 and tier 9 and 10 can have their own battles between each other. But that won't happen and after this "rebalance" we can only be more sure of beeing bottom tier in a tier 8 tank. But at least we might start seeing balanced teams? Love those games where one team has a Type 5 Heavy and the other has an AMX 50B or a T57 Heavy.


Edited by Afdass, 12 October 2017 - 04:06 PM.


Gkirmathal #20 Posted 12 October 2017 - 04:08 PM

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But Wait, There’s More

  • Equal chances of getting ranked in the top/middle/bottom of the list for different vehicle classes:
    You might have noticed that heavy and medium tanks would end up in single-level battles way too often, while arty and TDs tended to get ±2 and ±1 setups. We tweaked the matchmaker, evening out the odd for all vehicle classes.
  • Optimized team assembly logic:
    After some extra tuning, you’ll see more 3/5/7 and 5/10 teams, which should provide for a more enjoyable experience.

 

Excuse me Wargaming, see the bolded parts, mediums and heavies ending up too many times in single tier matches?!! Can you tell us, in which reality was this happening? One substituted by your own?

 

Has the feedback...the sheer mountain of feedback regarding the MM debacle and the priority of the 3/5/7 template, ever reached you in any way shape or form? Cause reading this I really think something is going terribly terribly wrong over there.

 

One point of advice: roll back the 3/5/7 tempate priority change which you release with 9.19.1. Or implement an active monitoring system that monitors how many bottom/mid/top tier games a players has had and manages template occurrence and placement.

So that no one suffers from ~80% being bottom tier due to 3/5/7 priority.

 

Only such rollback, or active MM monitoring&managing system, will fix the "bottom tier" and tier 8 MM debacle folks have been giving feedback on since 9.19.1.






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