Jump to content


Update 9.20.1: Matchmaker Improvements


  • Please log in to reply
199 replies to this topic

Max_Calibre #181 Posted 21 October 2017 - 05:30 PM

    Staff Sergeant

  • Player
  • 18306 battles
  • 457
  • [T-OG] T-OG
  • Member since:
    02-03-2014

View PostMKSKORP, on 14 October 2017 - 07:07 PM, said:

It seems most of you forgot about the pre 3/5/7 time.

There were games with 10/4/1. In that game you are just a victim. That was a quite painfull time.

 

Of course in a 3/5/7 you will face 3 tanks which are 2 tiers higher. But also 7 Enemies your tier and 5 one tier higher. so 80% of the enemies are in the range many players would like to have.

Maybe you should think were to move your "low tier" tank and avoid a head-to-head confrontation with the top tier. Support your own top tiers against the other lower tiers so that you have them against the enemy top tiers.

 

My wish for match making would be that the gun of the tank should be a factor. More or less the tier of the guns schould be matched not the tanks. Of course there are some exclusion Pershing with T5 10.5 should not be in a T5 battle ;)

But I would like to see stock tanks in a better match making.

 

 

Because there are a lot more tanks than in the beginning of WoT the variation is a lot higher than to the beginning. Maybe you could think about to higher the possibility of a +1/-1 MM. Maybe 10%-20% should be with that kind of match making.

 

but!

Tier 8 tanks get 'focussed then farmed' by any Tier 10 at any stage of a battle

however, if your careful and last to the end of the battle in a T10 game usually (but more often than not) in EVERY Tier 10 game its the enemy Tier 10's all alive waiting for you

in your underpowered under-gunned under-armoured massively under dpm, little puny Tier 8 tank

 

wondering what the f*uck your team's T10 are ~ oh no! there all dead

just easy T8's ready to be raped and farmed 

how happy it is to be a Tier 8 now - its not its shitty


Edited by Max_Calibre, 21 October 2017 - 05:33 PM.


FallingRain #182 Posted 21 October 2017 - 05:31 PM

    Private

  • Player
  • 54321 battles
  • 43
  • Member since:
    06-09-2013

As long as you allow auto-loaders who spam gold to be matched against single shot tanks the mm will be rubbish, As long as you have a +2/-2 tier difference the mm will be rubbish,  As long as you continue to sell over powered tanks and match them against much more inferior tanks the mm will be rubbish, as long as you continue to allow gold spamming the mm will be rubbish, the points i have mentioned have been told to you for years but you don't care, this game is very far from being balanced, this game is being eroded by your greed

 

the longer you allow gold spamming to go the more crap this game will become and you can talk and discuss these issues with wot until you are blue in the face and nothing will happen the mm will remain rubbish


Edited by FallingRain, 21 October 2017 - 07:50 PM.


Max_Calibre #183 Posted 21 October 2017 - 05:41 PM

    Staff Sergeant

  • Player
  • 18306 battles
  • 457
  • [T-OG] T-OG
  • Member since:
    02-03-2014

View PostIsharial, on 14 October 2017 - 11:40 AM, said:

 

if it was 5/5/5 you'd be dragged into even more conflicts with higher tiers... :facepalm:

 

there would be 2 more top tiers to club you every battle...


 

imo should be 3-9-3 if anything.. mid tiers are able to fight anything within reason, and wont get clubbed by a tank 1 tier higher if they play right and bottom tiers have a small challenge of +1 tier, but the chances of encountering a +2 tier is still the same


 

but really, who cares whether you are top tier or not? you'll still driving a tank and the majority are capable of damaging higher tiers, be it with HE, their standard rounds or premium.. there are few tanks that can fight things that they cannot pen at all...

even T8 vs a maus, you could fire HE under it and damage the 30mm floor? you might even break the tracks and that'll keep it still...  might even work for type5's 50mm though smaller calibers wont work quite so well...


 

that said, there's always something you can do in +2 battles, see it as a challenge to get top damage and xp and stop stressing over a pixel tier system (iz not top tier! waaaaaa!!!! :arta:)


 

 

imo should be 3-9-3 if anything

 

agreed makes far more sense the T10's would need to be more careful

unlike today where there 'almost cocky and over confident' knowing easy Tier 8 farming is available

Tier 10 v T8 is so ridiculous its laughable

 

when its a 0+- MM and its all T10's tanks on both teams most (not all) T10 players literally crap there pants ~ they not know what to do!


Edited by Max_Calibre, 21 October 2017 - 05:41 PM.


Rosetta_and_Philae #184 Posted 21 October 2017 - 10:24 PM

    Captain

  • Player
  • 42284 battles
  • 2,074
  • [DTV] DTV
  • Member since:
    06-14-2011
I was in the process of trying to 3 mark the King Tiger, Renault G1, BDRG1B Arl V39 and the T-150 but with the continual higher tier match-ups its sapping my enthusiasm to the point of thinking if its worth it at all anymore.:(

Hammerhead20 #185 Posted 22 October 2017 - 09:10 AM

    Lieutenant

  • Player
  • 25252 battles
  • 1,542
  • Member since:
    06-29-2011

View PostRosetta_and_Philae, on 22 October 2017 - 12:24 AM, said:

I was in the process of trying to 3 mark the King Tiger, Renault G1, BDRG1B Arl V39 and the T-150 but with the continual higher tier match-ups its sapping my enthusiasm to the point of thinking if its worth it at all anymore.:(

 

Never try to reach those 3 "marks", because Matchmaking will always screw things up...



adrianus777 #186 Posted 22 October 2017 - 04:50 PM

    Private

  • Player
  • 11368 battles
  • 11
  • [LE-RO] LE-RO
  • Member since:
    04-27-2017
wrost MM ever...

wobblybob #187 Posted 22 October 2017 - 09:18 PM

    Sergeant

  • Player
  • 62374 battles
  • 246
  • [-MM] -MM
  • Member since:
    07-23-2011

Hmmm. So after a break to play Warhammer II, I decide to have a relaxing day, gently improving the crew on my amazingly useful T25/2 before moving on to the glorious T28 proto. Up to now the grind on the T25/2 has been akin to a Weinstein casting session, but now out of stock config and reading the vastly improved MM coding now provides "Equal chances of getting ranked in the top/middle/bottom of the list for different vehicle classes" I looked forward my tanking comeback.


 

For those of you who haven't played the T25/2 vs  tier 8 and 9 it is a similar experience to having one of your family jewels removed by the rasping tongue of a feral cat. But, hey at least a third of the time my hapless TD will be top tier so even in its semi castrato state it can hopefully carry, just a little bit.


 

Some twenty three games time later:-


 

11 at tier 9

12 at tier 8

and 1 at tier 7


 

With an inspiring win rate of 38.5%.


 

Now call me an old traditionalist when it comes to maths but this is not how I would entirely expect a uniform distribution to be building up. I may even be tempted to suggest that the probability of this is on a level of Donald reaching over and giving Kim a friendly little tap on the Johnson to knock the last drip off, at a chance meeting in the Mancunian  Pride festival urinals.


 

I can heartily recommend almost any other activity in the world other than playing this game solo. I, for example, am now off to listen to the entire back catalogue of Sakya Indian throat gurgling.


 


 


 

 

 

 



Avdryz #188 Posted 23 October 2017 - 04:26 AM

    Lance-corporal

  • Player
  • 13928 battles
  • 94
  • [4-OD] 4-OD
  • Member since:
    04-24-2011

20 GAMES AND 20 LOSES.

IS THAT YOU MEAN FU C KING BALANCED MM ?????



Gremlin182 #189 Posted 23 October 2017 - 06:26 AM

    Lieutenant General

  • Player
  • 43559 battles
  • 7,157
  • Member since:
    04-18-2012

So question is what the edited do we want wargaming to do because if we want them to focus on something we have to do the same.

I see post after post many from very experienced players and they want contradictory things.

Personally I think this MM isn't working out and wargaming know that and I believe the MM is one of the things that cannot be tested in supertest common test or sandbox.

The only way to test the MM is to let the entire playerbase have at it and watch what happens.

 

Now win or lose what I want is a good game and preferably one where I don't mess up and I do get them but not as often as I did a year or two back.

If there is anyone out there that can say they get any enjoyment out of a 15-0 or 0-15 game I will be surprised.

So is it the +2 -2 mm The mismatched player skill or unbalanced tanks that's the problem though its probably a combination.

 

MM

I wouldn't mind a +-1 or +-0 mm being tested I do see that even though I am nowhere near good enough to play tier 10 the games are more enjoyable.

I grabbed the Grille 15 Foch 155 Foch B FV215b 183 and the Super conqueror so have tried them out a few times despite me hanging around the games play out better than tier 8 games do currently.

Of the three the MM seems to be the easiest thing to test we occasionally get single tier games so maybe alter the mm a little to make that more common and see if it improves the game.

 

Player Skill

Balancing player skill is something I argued for some years ago and was told this was a really bad thing to do, so I will leave that argument to better more experienced players that me.

I'm just an old guy that likes playing the game.

I do think that at the moment wargaming see a playerbase that both argues for the removal of arty and it remaining, the balancing of player skill in games and leaving it alone and the nerfing of some of the recent premium tanks, The last is one that needs looking into.

 

Premium tanks

I can see its a problem selling something then altering it though prior to the arrival of the  liberte patriot and especially defender and chrysler the only nerf I remember was the superpershing where they gave gold to the players if they chose to sell them back.

Thankfully we got rid of the preferential MM premium tanks and started getting premiums as good as standard elited tanks.

Then made a misstep by adding a couple of unbalanced ones, the only thing I can see this leading to is continual power creep.

New premiums must be better than older premiums so they will sell, older premiums eventually get buffed and the whole thing starts again.

 

 

 

 

 



M62B #190 Posted 23 October 2017 - 07:55 AM

    Lance-corporal

  • Beta Tester
  • 38180 battles
  • 51
  • Member since:
    01-06-2011
MM is it just a word that means sod all, i still can't fathom it out. yesterday the amount of games where my team would face a team with either a unicum plt with a lot of over 50% players, mine we would be lucky to scrape 2 over 50% needless to say most enjoyable to play not.

upsetti_spaghetti #191 Posted 23 October 2017 - 03:25 PM

    Corporal

  • Player
  • 9734 battles
  • 130
  • Member since:
    01-20-2013
Make it 5/10 1 tier spread, there is a difference but it's not catastrophic, then add in your new "mirror match up" and you got the best MM wot ever had in it's history and you wont need it to fix it ever again.

iKnewIT #192 Posted 24 October 2017 - 07:01 AM

    Staff Sergeant

  • Player
  • 66348 battles
  • 341
  • Member since:
    10-07-2012

View PostGremlin182, on 23 October 2017 - 07:26 AM, said:

So question is what the edited do we want wargaming to do because if we want them to focus on something we have to do the same.

I see post after post many from very experienced players and they want contradictory things.

Personally I think this MM isn't working out and wargaming know that and I believe the MM is one of the things that cannot be tested in supertest common test or sandbox.

The only way to test the MM is to let the entire playerbase have at it and watch what happens.

 

Now win or lose what I want is a good game and preferably one where I don't mess up and I do get them but not as often as I did a year or two back.

If there is anyone out there that can say they get any enjoyment out of a 15-0 or 0-15 game I will be surprised.

So is it the +2 -2 mm The mismatched player skill or unbalanced tanks that's the problem though its probably a combination.

 

MM

I wouldn't mind a +-1 or +-0 mm being tested I do see that even though I am nowhere near good enough to play tier 10 the games are more enjoyable.

I grabbed the Grille 15 Foch 155 Foch B FV215b 183 and the Super conqueror so have tried them out a few times despite me hanging around the games play out better than tier 8 games do currently.

Of the three the MM seems to be the easiest thing to test we occasionally get single tier games so maybe alter the mm a little to make that more common and see if it improves the game.

 

Player Skill

Balancing player skill is something I argued for some years ago and was told this was a really bad thing to do, so I will leave that argument to better more experienced players that me.

I'm just an old guy that likes playing the game.

I do think that at the moment wargaming see a playerbase that both argues for the removal of arty and it remaining, the balancing of player skill in games and leaving it alone and the nerfing of some of the recent premium tanks, The last is one that needs looking into.

 

Premium tanks

I can see its a problem selling something then altering it though prior to the arrival of the  liberte patriot and especially defender and chrysler the only nerf I remember was the superpershing where they gave gold to the players if they chose to sell them back.

Thankfully we got rid of the preferential MM premium tanks and started getting premiums as good as standard elited tanks.

Then made a misstep by adding a couple of unbalanced ones, the only thing I can see this leading to is continual power creep.

New premiums must be better than older premiums so they will sell, older premiums eventually get buffed and the whole thing starts again.

 

 

 

 

 

 

You say we still must wait?

What for?

Yes, I adapted to almost all of changes of 9.18, but, as I said before, I hate most of them and, especially, 3/5/7.

 

I found mine 2017-05-02 post for You. ;)

And I was really not the only one who said in advance that 9.18 will be a crap....

 

Yes there were changes in 9.19, 9.20. 9.20.1, but You can't build a good building on bad foundations.... :(

 

Read it and use Your memory......

 

-------------------------------------------------------

 

Dear WoT developers,

Yes, I'm average player, but I have seen at least ;) many battles. ;)

 

A. Artilery changes......

Arty now are more "toxic" but has no chances in the end of game in front of tanks of any other class, because of:

 

1. Artys still may do some demage. But less if they concentrate on armored HT.
2. Prefered targets now are less armored targets if it's possible. You can destroy them faster and do more influence to a game in that way.

3. I think nobody likes STUN effect... Now LT and MT players hate artys even more because of bigger splash.

4. If on one side stay only artys in the end of game, they are useless, because they can't fight directly with armored vehicles.... :(

 

So there is no fun to play with arty and to play in front of arty any more (only maybe with HT in town maps).

That's why overall rebalancing of artys is bad decision.

 

B. Matchmaking....

 

Before release of 9.18 "on paper" system 3/5/7 looked very good.
But now I think that NEW MM is the only REASON of FAST 2-3-4 minutes duration battles. :(
It's not even about quantity of LT's or diference of quantity of MT's and TT's in teams.
It's only about TOO LITTLE quantity of HIGHEST tier tanks per team.

(And maybe of that that HT's do not care about artys in enemies' team any more as I wrote before).


I think 5/5/5 or even 7/5/3 would be much more better.
10/5 is better than 5/10 , in my opinion, too.

 

So new MM is bad decision too.

 

In addition.

MM is not bad.

 

But templates 3/5/7 and 5/10 is a CRAP.

It's the MAIN reason of FAST battles, because there are too little highest tier tanks per team.

 

I must add that ARTYs and LT's should NOT be on top in 3/5/7 and even in 5/10 setups.

​(If they are not tier 10, of course)

 

C. Light tanks....

 

I understand why You had to nerf tier X and IX LT's before release of 9.18.

It's because of TOO LITTLE MAPS only.

 

But then You had to "rebalance" LT's of lower tier too, not to be them better than tier IX and X.....

And now almost all MT's of the same tier with good stationary camo value and the same perks and equipment are BETTER passive SCOUTS than LT's....

(So I want to do LT's missions with MT's or even TD's, if possible....)

 

You had to rebalance view ranges of ALL tanks before release of 9.18, but You haven't done that.

 

Regards

 

p.s. And one more thing for those who knows how to use calculator. ;)

 

Let's say there are equal amount of tier 6, 7, 8, 9, and 10 tanks players per some time.

And there are 60% 3/5/7 setup, 30% 5/10 setup, and 10% one tier battles without variations (2/4/9, 3/12 and others, I mean, which have even less top tier tanks).

 

In that conditions, when playing with tier 8 tank You will be:

1. 10% in 1 tier battles;

2. 22% on TOP (3/15*0,6+5/15*0,3);

3. 20% in the middle (5/15*0,6);

And, SURPRISE ;)

4. 48% in the BOTTOM (7/15*0,6+10/15*0,3)

of a list. :P

 

And it's always be so because of 3/5/7 and 5/10

You will be TWICE more times in the BOTTOM than on TOP.

 

Cheers. :P

 

-------------------------------------------------------

 

Have I got any answer for mine posts and re-posts about MM from 2017-05-02?

No.....

 

And now I'm wondering how much time it will take to correct that little amount of red color in mine post.....


Edited by Mr_Pain_, 26 October 2017 - 07:31 AM.


gilly136 #193 Posted 24 October 2017 - 07:16 AM

    Lance-corporal

  • Player
  • 13222 battles
  • 62
  • Member since:
    04-14-2015
so wargaming expects players to grind to tier 8 then spend the majoroty of time facing t10s in a stock tank? great way to lose players and after my prem runs out im gonna give it a break till they finally decide to do something which they wont until it hurts there bank balance, lol and they even had the cheek to ask us to vote for them for golden joystick awards but im sure in there minds next month they will be a new prem out with ten percent off to win us back

Afdass #194 Posted 24 October 2017 - 03:40 PM

    Staff Sergeant

  • Player
  • 11103 battles
  • 453
  • Member since:
    07-26-2016

View Postgilly136, on 24 October 2017 - 06:16 AM, said:

so wargaming expects players to grind to tier 8 then spend the majoroty of time facing t10s in a stock tank? great way to lose players and after my prem runs out im gonna give it a break till they finally decide to do something which they wont until it hurts there bank balance, lol and they even had the cheek to ask us to vote for them for golden joystick awards but im sure in there minds next month they will be a new prem out with ten percent off to win us back

 

Well, wargaming expects players to grind stock tier 8 tanks while facing 90% of the times tier 10 tanks. Then, people gets tired and start grinding elite exp to convert to free exp later on. Then they can fully research their tier 8 tanks and finally enjoy ther tier 90% tier 10 matchmaking (as if there is anything to enjoy).

Cobra6 #195 Posted 24 October 2017 - 05:59 PM

    Field Marshal

  • Beta Tester
  • 15960 battles
  • 14,432
  • [RGT] RGT
  • Member since:
    09-17-2010

When can we expect the matchmaking to be balanced? You know, the following:

 

33% top tier

33% mid tier

33% bottom tier

1% deviation

 

That should be the aim and if the MM templates have to be adjusted to fit this, so no more 3-5-7 but rather 5-5-5 or 5-10 so be it.

 

Cobra 6



alphadec #196 Posted 26 October 2017 - 11:57 AM

    Private

  • Player
  • 21428 battles
  • 41
  • Member since:
    09-20-2011
whats this update 9.20.1.1 that has been released today. ?

Afdass #197 Posted 26 October 2017 - 03:38 PM

    Staff Sergeant

  • Player
  • 11103 battles
  • 453
  • Member since:
    07-26-2016

Matchmaker improvements they said. Matchmaker will balance tanks they said. Tanks with similar characteristics will be matched-up against each other they said.

 

Yesterday I had a battle in my lovely Tier 8 T-54 Mod.1 trying to get some credits and some crew training. Tier 10 match in Highway (how unusuall a tier 8 in a tier 10 game) where the enemy team had: T57 Heavy, Skoda T50 and T54E1. My team had: T110E5, T-10 and Strv 103-0. So please tell me how is this balanced? How are the tanks in different packs matched-up?



Henska76 #198 Posted 16 February 2018 - 12:00 AM

    Private

  • Player
  • 36662 battles
  • 29
  • Member since:
    02-27-2013

Suberb


Edited by Henska76, Yesterday, 12:23 AM.


Gremlin182 #199 Posted 16 February 2018 - 01:20 AM

    Lieutenant General

  • Player
  • 43559 battles
  • 7,157
  • Member since:
    04-18-2012

View PostiKnewIT, on 24 October 2017 - 07:01 AM, said:

 

You say we still must wait?

What for?

Yes, I adapted to almost all of changes of 9.18, but, as I said before, I hate most of them and, especially, 3/5/7.

 

I found mine 2017-05-02 post for You. ;)

And I was really not the only one who said in advance that 9.18 will be a crap....

 

Yes there were changes in 9.19, 9.20. 9.20.1, but You can't build a good building on bad foundations.... :(

 

Read it and use Your memory......

 

-------------------------------------------------------

 

Dear WoT developers,

Yes, I'm average player, but I have seen at least ;) many battles. ;)

 

A. Artilery changes......

Arty now are more "toxic" but has no chances in the end of game in front of tanks of any other class, because of:

 

1. Artys still may do some demage. But less if they concentrate on armored HT.
2. Prefered targets now are less armored targets if it's possible. You can destroy them faster and do more influence to a game in that way.

3. I think nobody likes STUN effect... Now LT and MT players hate artys even more because of bigger splash.

4. If on one side stay only artys in the end of game, they are useless, because they can't fight directly with armored vehicles.... :(

 

So there is no fun to play with arty and to play in front of arty any more (only maybe with HT in town maps).

That's why overall rebalancing of artys is bad decision.

 

B. Matchmaking....

 

Before release of 9.18 "on paper" system 3/5/7 looked very good.
But now I think that NEW MM is the only REASON of FAST 2-3-4 minutes duration battles. :(
It's not even about quantity of LT's or diference of quantity of MT's and TT's in teams.
It's only about TOO LITTLE quantity of HIGHEST tier tanks per team.

(And maybe of that that HT's do not care about artys in enemies' team any more as I wrote before).


I think 5/5/5 or even 7/5/3 would be much more better.
10/5 is better than 5/10 , in my opinion, too.

 

So new MM is bad decision too.

 

In addition.

MM is not bad.

 

But templates 3/5/7 and 5/10 is a CRAP.

It's the MAIN reason of FAST battles, because there are too little highest tier tanks per team.

 

I must add that ARTYs and LT's should NOT be on top in 3/5/7 and even in 5/10 setups.

​(If they are not tier 10, of course)

 

C. Light tanks....

 

I understand why You had to nerf tier X and IX LT's before release of 9.18.

It's because of TOO LITTLE MAPS only.

 

But then You had to "rebalance" LT's of lower tier too, not to be them better than tier IX and X.....

And now almost all MT's of the same tier with good stationary camo value and the same perks and equipment are BETTER passive SCOUTS than LT's....

(So I want to do LT's missions with MT's or even TD's, if possible....)

 

You had to rebalance view ranges of ALL tanks before release of 9.18, but You haven't done that.

 

Regards

 

p.s. And one more thing for those who knows how to use calculator. ;)

 

Let's say there are equal amount of tier 6, 7, 8, 9, and 10 tanks players per some time.

And there are 60% 3/5/7 setup, 30% 5/10 setup, and 10% one tier battles without variations (2/4/9, 3/12 and others, I mean, which have even less top tier tanks).

 

In that conditions, when playing with tier 8 tank You will be:

1. 10% in 1 tier battles;

2. 22% on TOP (3/15*0,6+5/15*0,3);

3. 20% in the middle (5/15*0,6);

And, SURPRISE ;)

4. 48% in the BOTTOM (7/15*0,6+10/15*0,3)

of a list. :P

 

And it's always be so because of 3/5/7 and 5/10

You will be TWICE more times in the BOTTOM than on TOP.

 

Cheers. :P

 

-------------------------------------------------------

 

Have I got any answer for mine posts and re-posts about MM from 2017-05-02?

No.....

 

And now I'm wondering how much time it will take to correct that little amount of red color in mine post.....

 

I have to say I agree with a lot of what you say.

Heavy tanks and mediums are the backbone of teams Some TDs can function as a heavy and some lights can function as a medium but on the whole you need a core of heavy and medium tanks they can be backed up by TDs Lights and SPGs but ideally you want your top tier vehicles to be heavies and or mediums.

It used to work naturally SPGs and Light tanks only went up to tier 8 and Lights had +3 mm those vehicles were nearly always low down in the team lineup.

 

3 5 7 not that does not work for all the reason you and others have stated and its also messing with Assault mode which already had enough problems, encounter is little better.

Games where the teams are split into 2 or 3 groups means you spend a lot of time just rearranging the team before attacking.

 

SPG alterations reduced damage and pen increased splash and stun, well I think its better than it was but needs more work.

Damage reduction good change, increased splash radius I am not keen on I think its way too big but I can live with it.

Pen reduction I am not keen on I think the damage reduction was fine without a 50% reduction in pen.

To me the whole idea of this support class is to break stalemates such as when a heavily armoured tank holds a choke point.

Reducing the pen means quite often you do minimal or even no damage.

So they go hunting lower armoured tanks.

 

Stun again I can live with it we can fix it instantly if we are in a firefight and need max rate of fire and performance or we can wait it out.

Some equipment and Consumables reduce the duration of stun  so again I don't find it a problem.



Boegegren #200 Posted 16 February 2018 - 10:00 AM

    Private

  • Player
  • 1089 battles
  • 28
  • Member since:
    04-15-2015

View Postalphadec, on 26 October 2017 - 11:57 AM, said:

whats this update 9.20.1.1 that has been released today. ?

 

People just use the topic to discuss the poor MM we have these days.




1 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users