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LEOPARD 1 IS WEAK (BUFF REQUIRED IMMEDIATELY)

tier X Tier X med Weak tanks Leopard 1 Tier X Weak Buff

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SplittingVoid #1 Posted 12 October 2017 - 06:17 PM

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Let me be upfront. With the current dynamics of the game at tier 10 not to mention the recent buffs to other tier 10 tanks, I feel that the leopard 1 has taken a beating. In short, it needs a serious buff. Let me highlight many if not all the problems with this tank

 

Points:

 

1. paper armour :

    

    The side can't be used to side scrape as it gets over matched and frankly people shoot and the space between the tracks rather than the side armour which is only 30 mm thick.

     The hull has 70 mm on the upper plate and can be used to bounce a few shells but the top of the hull being 30 mm gets over-matched.

     The mantlet does have a thin outline that produces an auto ricochet as does a small hairline above the mantlet. But nearly all shots penetrate very easily.

     Apart from the side, upper and lower plate of the hull and the front, rear and side of the turret , everything else is 30 mm. 

(the thickest portions being 70 mm not being useful unless over-angled ).

     Pretty much every other med at tier 10 has a significant amount of armour.

 

2.  Lackluster Mobility :

 

   The mobility compared to other tier 10 tanks isn't great. We have the tvp t 50/51 that has a 60 km/hr top speed limit and near identical ground resistances but has a better horsepower/ton ratio giving it an edge over the leopard 1 in a couple of scenarios.

   The  object 140 although having a worse hp/ton ratio and top speed limit , has excellent ground resistances giving it superb maneuverability.

 

 3.  Troll accuracy :

 

 After playing nearly 2.8 k in this tank, I can say pretty confidently that the leopard 1 isn't always accurate and that the accuracy of this tank being the intended key feature has been over-hyped. That is because although it has a pretty small reticle circle (base dispersion being .29 ), the dispersion while moving the turret and tank are just tragic for a tier 10 med. Of course, there is the tvp  t 50/51 that has comparable dispersion while moving but is balanced out with the incredible burst firepower. Most other tier 10 meds have great values making it great for firing on the move which often is the case when brawling which happens quite frequently. The leopard 1 doesn't always have the setting for it to quietly sit in the bush and snipe. Lately , it's become pretty hard to do so.

Another thing is even while stationary, the shell goes somewhere else. I've lost count of the times I shouted or cried in despair when the shot when perfectly aimed, went elsewhere once the gun fired. Then I was left with the awkward situation of getting spotted forcing me to relocate. It's just a waste of effort really. I wonder if it something to do with a hidden mechanic of the gun caliber recoil. I say this cause even my tier 6 vk 30. 02 m( two marks of excellence and 3k games) and the tier 5 vk 30.01 H  (3 marks of excellence and 700+ games) were true to their mark even when firing on the move.

 

4. Lackluster firepower:

 

Well, except the Chinese med and the e 50 m, I can't think of any other tier X med that has a worse rate of fire than the leopard 1.

 

5. HE dumpster :

 

Talk about arty nerfs, what exactly got nerfed? If it's the 1100 - 2000+ alpha let me get you thinking again, the accuracy buff just outdid whatever nerf that had been planned for the artillery. Getting nearly one shot by tier X artillery; getting 800-900 of my hp shaved off by a tier 8 artillery; getting destroyed even when on the move...sigh. Pin point accuracy of artillery folks...

Then comes the number of high caliber cannons in the game not to mention t49 's, OHO, type 4 and 5 Heavies, E 100 , jgpz E 100, FV4005 (GOD SAVE ME FROM THAT BUFFED MONSTER COME PATCH 9.20.1 (SOBBING...) ), FV 215b 183 (talk about getting double tapped by two FV 215b 183s on your own team eh?). Ahem...point made there I hope.

I also need to mention that this gets set on fire very easily if not frequently.

 

6. Ammo rack :

 

.................

err...

What do I say to getting tracked and ammo racked at the same time every now and then?

 

7. Incompetency against low and high tiers :

 

It can struggle even against lower tier's when in a fight as lower tiers have a much faster reload rate and can cause a lot of module damage. Even otherwise it just suffers. This tank doesn't have great camouflage and gets spotted pretty easily. Many tier 8 lights (not to mention the buffed tier 10 lights) can easily out-spot the vehicle. Heck even tds and heavies can do so with everyone using coated optics/ binoculars and a skilled crew. The point being that getting out-spotted happens all too often.

 

Overall, when compared to other tanks I feel it suffers tremendously and doesn't have any strong feature to balance it's heavy weaknesses. For it to perform in an average if not excellent manner, it needs at least a 5 skilled crew ,premium consumables and a complex equipment load-out. It is very difficult for an average player to get used to unless one has a lot of in-depth knowledge and skill along with with a lot of experience.(ahem... unicorn alert!).

 

and of course  Too many unnecessary buffs to other tier X vehicles

 

eg: M48 Patton.....enough said...

 

 

 

Real life references :

 

From what I've read so far the leopard 1 was followed by the the leopard 1 a2 to a7 which all had significant improvements to armour and other capabilities. Why weren't any of these incorporated into the current model? Or perhaps why wasn't there any remodeling of the leopard 1 to make it more competent? 

 

I feel that this is something which can be done seeing that's what happened to the M48 A1 Patton ; come patch 9.20.1 then being the M48 A2 Patton.

So, definitely room for work to be done on the leopard 1.

 

EXPECTED BUFFS:

 

To be short ...just the opposite of the drawbacks that I've highlighted as frankly...I'm pretty darn tired writing all of this down...As for the armour at the very least it should have a greater thickness than 30 mm (mentioned beforehand) and give it some resistance against those HE spams.

Also, definitely a massive turret buff required with auto ricochet plates.

Ammo rack restructuring

Mobility buff

Accuracy/ rate of fire buff

and of course a remodel would be the best especially with the leopard series being one of if not the best and most popular real life MBTs in the world. 

(It is most particularly this that makes me wonder what the heck WG is doing with regards to its franchise...)

 

So please WG... BIG BIG REQUEST TO GET BACK ON THE BALL AND BUFF THIS PIECE OF WORK THAT LEADS ON TO THE LEOPARD 2. I.E, ONE OF THE TOP TEN MBTS IN THE WORLD... 

 

Thanks for listening..

 

 

 

 

 

 



JakeRoook #2 Posted 12 October 2017 - 06:29 PM

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Ppl just loosing interests, and choose TVP51 which is easyer for wn8 and with more primitive gameplay. I dont think it needs buffs, maybe faster turret and rear speed only. It is more like lately autoloaders flood problem.

Edited by JakeRoook, 12 October 2017 - 06:39 PM.


mikedee #3 Posted 12 October 2017 - 06:33 PM

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I think it mostly needs a gun handling buff.

Maybe bring it up to 1A1 spec, which introduced gun stabilization, if not 1A3 for some extra turret armor too.



G01ngToxicCommand0 #4 Posted 12 October 2017 - 06:47 PM

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View PostSplittingVoid, on 12 October 2017 - 06:17 PM, said:

Let me be upfront. With the current dynamics of the game at tier 10 not to mention the recent buffs to other tier 10 tanks, I feel that the leopard 1 has taken a beating. In short, it needs a serious buff. Let me highlight many if not all the problems with this tank

 

Points:

 

1. paper armour :

    

    The side can't be used to side scrape as it gets over matched and frankly people shoot and the space between the tracks rather than the side armour which is only 30 mm thick.

     The hull has 70 mm on the upper plate and can be used to bounce a few shells but the top of the hull being 30 mm gets over-matched.

     The mantlet does have a thin outline that produces an auto ricochet as does a small hairline above the mantlet. But nearly all shots penetrate very easily.

     Apart from the side, upper and lower plate of the hull and the front, rear and side of the turret , everything else is 30 mm. 

(the thickest portions being 70 mm not being useful unless over-angled ).

     Pretty much every other med at tier 10 has a significant amount of armour.

 

2.  Lackluster Mobility :

 

   The mobility compared to other tier 10 tanks isn't great. We have the tvp t 50/51 that has a 60 km/hr top speed limit and near identical ground resistances but has a better horsepower/ton ratio giving it an edge over the leopard 1 in a couple of scenarios.

   The  object 140 although having a worse hp/ton ratio and top speed limit , has excellent ground resistances giving it superb maneuverability.

 

 3.  Troll accuracy :

 

 After playing nearly 2.8 k in this tank, I can say pretty confidently that the leopard 1 isn't always accurate and that the accuracy of this tank being the intended key feature has been over-hyped. That is because although it has a pretty small reticle circle (base dispersion being .29 ), the dispersion while moving the turret and tank are just tragic for a tier 10 med. Of course, there is the tvp  t 50/51 that has comparable dispersion while moving but is balanced out with the incredible burst firepower. Most other tier 10 meds have great values making it great for firing on the move which often is the case when brawling which happens quite frequently. The leopard 1 doesn't always have the setting for it to quietly sit in the bush and snipe. Lately , it's become pretty hard to do so.

Another thing is even while stationary, the shell goes somewhere else. I've lost count of the times I shouted or cried in despair when the shot when perfectly aimed, went elsewhere once the gun fired. Then I was left with the awkward situation of getting spotted forcing me to relocate. It's just a waste of effort really. I wonder if it something to do with a hidden mechanic of the gun caliber recoil. I say this cause even my tier 6 vk 30. 02 m( two marks of excellence and 3k games) and the tier 5 vk 30.01 H  (3 marks of excellence and 700+ games) were true to their mark even when firing on the move.

 

4. Lackluster firepower:

 

Well, except the Chinese med and the e 50 m, I can't think of any other tier X med that has a worse rate of fire than the leopard 1.

 

5. HE dumpster :

 

Talk about arty nerfs, what exactly got nerfed? If it's the 1100 - 2000+ alpha let me get you thinking again, the accuracy buff just outdid whatever nerf that had been planned for the artillery. Getting nearly one shot by tier X artillery; getting 800-900 of my hp shaved off by a tier 8 artillery; getting destroyed even when on the move...sigh. Pin point accuracy of artillery folks...

Then comes the number of high caliber cannons in the game not to mention t49 's, OHO, type 4 and 5 Heavies, E 100 , jgpz E 100, FV4005 (GOD SAVE ME FROM THAT BUFFED MONSTER COME PATCH 9.20.1 (SOBBING...) ), FV 215b 183 (talk about getting double tapped by two FV 215b 183s on your own team eh?). Ahem...point made there I hope.

I also need to mention that this gets set on fire very easily if not frequently.

 

6. Ammo rack :

 

.................

err...

What do I say to getting tracked and ammo racked at the same time every now and then?

 

7. Incompetency against low and high tiers :

 

It can struggle even against lower tier's when in a fight as lower tiers have a much faster reload rate and can cause a lot of module damage. Even otherwise it just suffers. This tank doesn't have great camouflage and gets spotted pretty easily. Many tier 8 lights (not to mention the buffed tier 10 lights) can easily out-spot the vehicle. Heck even tds and heavies can do so with everyone using coated optics/ binoculars and a skilled crew. The point being that getting out-spotted happens all too often.

 

Overall, when compared to other tanks I feel it suffers tremendously and doesn't have any strong feature to balance it's heavy weaknesses. For it to perform in an average if not excellent manner, it needs at least a 5 skilled crew ,premium consumables and a complex equipment load-out. It is very difficult for an average player to get used to unless one has a lot of in-depth knowledge and skill along with with a lot of experience.(ahem... unicorn alert!).

 

and of course  Too many unnecessary buffs to other tier X vehicles

 

eg: M48 Patton.....enough said...

 

 

 

Real life references :

 

From what I've read so far the leopard 1 was followed by the the leopard 1 a2 to a7 which all had significant improvements to armour and other capabilities. Why weren't any of these incorporated into the current model? Or perhaps why wasn't there any remodeling of the leopard 1 to make it more competent? 

 

I feel that this is something which can be done seeing that's what happened to the M48 A1 Patton ; come patch 9.20.1 then being the M48 A2 Patton.

So, definitely room for work to be done on the leopard 1.

 

EXPECTED BUFFS:

 

To be short ...just the opposite of the drawbacks that I've highlighted as frankly...I'm pretty darn tired writing all of this down...As for the armour at the very least it should have a greater thickness than 30 mm (mentioned beforehand) and give it some resistance against those HE spams.

Also, definitely a massive turret buff required with auto ricochet plates.

Ammo rack restructuring

Mobility buff

Accuracy/ rate of fire buff

and of course a remodel would be the best especially with the leopard series being one of if not the best and most popular real life MBTs in the world. 

(It is most particularly this that makes me wonder what the heck WG is doing with regards to its franchise...)

 

So please WG... BIG BIG REQUEST TO GET BACK ON THE BALL AND BUFF THIS PIECE OF WORK THAT LEADS ON TO THE LEOPARD 2. I.E, ONE OF THE TOP TEN MBTS IN THE WORLD... 

 

Thanks for listening..

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

It should be buffed to Leopard A1A1 with skirts and spaced armour on the turret combined with better fire control(lower aim time and dispersion) and the throw in an increase in DPM.

Dr_Oolen #5 Posted 12 October 2017 - 06:52 PM

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what do you mean its bad? it has 0.3 accuracy thus all of its other stats need to be properly bad to compensate, it would be insanely op otherwise!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Kappa

 

on a serious note - please god no, no more armor buffs, gun depression buffs, dpm buffs, dispersion buffs; i proposed precisely these changes few months back, before this new round of powercreep, that would make leopard not a copypaste tank, yet still somewhat true to the initial role it was supposed to play

 

accuracy 0.3 -> 0.25

aimtime 1.9 -> 1.3

shell speed 1500 -> 1800

pen 268 -> 285

 

given the recent t10 powercreep id go for something like this:

accuracy 0.3 -> 0.24

aimtime 1.9 -> 1.1

shell speed 1500 -> 1800

pen 268 -> 285

alpha 390 -> 450 (who gives a crap about caliber+dmg consistency these days)

dpm (rammer+vents+bia) 3290 (7.11 reload) -> 2900 (9.3 reload)

 

No changes to armor, dispersions etc, just these changes. Simply put it would still be bad at shooting on the move, it would still be bad at close range fights in general, but if it was forced into them (which in this meta it would) it could at least trade somewhat well because basically having guaranteed pen on weakspots and good alpha; and at long ranges, where it should be good, it would be actually good and significantly better than other meds, thus being worthwhile getting.

 

Basicaly instead of the usual tactic these days that mediums use of "spam shells with potato accuracy and 50/50 chance to pen angled weakspots while poking a ridgeline and not aiming at all; penning maybe 30% of the shots" this tank could actually have the gameplay of "aim, shoot, actually hit and pen with 90% of shots". mind=blown that such gameplay could be used in this game.



kiolvi #6 Posted 12 October 2017 - 07:01 PM

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Basically with no armor this tank should have a superb accuracy and dpm. Unfortunately the accuracy is german (good on paper, troll in action). And the dpm is not great either.

 

Because every tank seems to have buffs nowadays leopard should get better turret or accuracy which actually is as good as it seems to be on paper.

 

But I would prefer instead of continuing buffs WG would start nerfing tanks.



tajj7 #7 Posted 12 October 2017 - 07:15 PM

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View PostDr_Oolen, on 12 October 2017 - 05:52 PM, said:

what do you mean its bad? it has 0.3 accuracy thus all of its other stats need to be properly bad to compensate, it would be insanely op otherwise!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Kappa

 

on a serious note - please god no, no more armor buffs, gun depression buffs, dpm buffs, dispersion buffs; i proposed precisely these changes few months back, before this new round of powercreep, that would make leopard not a copypaste tank, yet still somewhat true to the initial role it was supposed to play

 

accuracy 0.3 -> 0.25

aimtime 1.9 -> 1.3

shell speed 1500 -> 1800

pen 268 -> 285

 

given the recent t10 powercreep id go for something like this:

accuracy 0.3 -> 0.24

aimtime 1.9 -> 1.1

shell speed 1500 -> 1800

pen 268 -> 285

alpha 390 -> 450 (who gives a crap about caliber+dmg consistency these days)

dpm (rammer+vents+bia) 3290 (7.11 reload) -> 2900 (9.3 reload)

 

No changes to armor, dispersions etc, just these changes. Simply put it would still be bad at shooting on the move, it would still be bad at close range fights in general, but if it was forced into them (which in this meta it would) it could at least trade somewhat well because basically having guaranteed pen on weakspots and good alpha; and at long ranges, where it should be good, it would be actually good and significantly better than other meds, thus being worthwhile getting.

 

Basicaly instead of the usual tactic these days that mediums use of "spam shells with potato accuracy and 50/50 chance to pen angled weakspots while poking a ridgeline and not aiming at all; penning maybe 30% of the shots" this tank could actually have the gameplay of "aim, shoot, actually hit and pen with 90% of shots". mind=blown that such gameplay could be used in this game.

 

Tad over kill but generally this.

 

I'd go -

 

- Base DPM to at least Patton levels.(2.9k ish) if not Russian meds levels at 3k basic. 

- Aim time from 1.9s to 1.6s. 

- Dispersion on the move from 0.17/0.17 to 0.15/0.15

- Dispersion on turret traverse from 0.08 to 0.06 or even 0.04.  

- Accuracy from 0.29 to 0.25, maybe even like 0.2, having the most accurate gun in the game would be a good stand out feature that wasn't game breaking.  

- Remove it's pen drop off at range 

 

 


Edited by tajj7, 12 October 2017 - 10:27 PM.


HundeWurst #8 Posted 12 October 2017 - 07:28 PM

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Well yes. Leopard 1 was never any good (the gun was always mediocre, never something better than what other tanks have). However due to the recent buffing and powercreep it went from slightly below average to really damn bad.

It is the worst medium of tier 10 in my opinion. Ever since the TVP entered the game there was no point any more in picking that tank.

 

Lets see. Wargaming is buffing things left and right. They most likely will buff that tank in the future as well. There is no reason not to do it.

 

However keep in mind that Leo1 will never have any armor of significance. The entire tank was designed like that. Same goes for the 30b, however WG gave it unhistorical turret armor for whatever reason. Well to make it unique, but it just got closer to the STB-1.

That tank would need the best gunhandling in the game, it should never need to aim for mor than half a second to be fully aimed. At the same time it should get insane DPM to be able to shoot its way out of bad situations.

But lets see what the future holds.



HundeWurst #9 Posted 12 October 2017 - 07:31 PM

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View Posttajj7, on 12 October 2017 - 07:15 PM, said:

 

Tad over kill but generally this.

 

I'd go -

 

- Base DPM to at least Patton levels.(2.9k ish)

- Aim time from 1.9s to 1.7s. 

- Dispersion on the move from 0.17/0.17 to 0.15/0.15

- Dispersion on turret traverse from 0.08 to 0.06 

- Accuracy from 0.29 to 0.26, maybe even 0.25. 

- Reduce pen drop off at range by 10-15%. 

 

 

 

YOu are aware that APCR as standard shell doesnt even have a (much) worse dropoff than standard AP shells? Its basically the same, aka not relevant enough.

However I do like the proposal of Dr_Oolen. That would be unique, yet fun.



tajj7 #10 Posted 12 October 2017 - 10:25 PM

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View PostWunderWurst, on 12 October 2017 - 06:31 PM, said:

 

YOu are aware that APCR as standard shell doesnt even have a (much) worse dropoff than standard AP shells? Its basically the same, aka not relevant enough.

However I do like the proposal of Dr_Oolen. That would be unique, yet fun.

 

Yeh forgot it wasn't that bad, was thinking about the lights and their terrible drop off. Still has some drop off though, though 10-15% like I suggested wouldn't do much but you could make the Leopard basically have no pen drop off at range so just keeps it's flat 268 even at 500m. 

Edited by tajj7, 12 October 2017 - 10:28 PM.


Aikl #11 Posted 12 October 2017 - 10:41 PM

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View Posttajj7, on 12 October 2017 - 09:25 PM, said:

 

Yeh forgot it wasn't that bad, was thinking about the lights and their terrible drop off. Still has some drop off though, though 10-15% like I suggested wouldn't do much but you could make the Leopard basically have no pen drop off at range so just keeps it's flat 268 even at 500m. 

 

In-game data says 10mm dropoff at 500m for Patton, CAX, T-62A, 140 and even E50M. The 121 is, for whatever reason, worse at 14mm (and that thing has worse base penetration too). 

 

Wouldn't be a bad idea anyway, though even the accuracy alone would make it kind of interesting. 0.20 would likely not even be enough. 0.30 (base) circle is as large as the T95 frontally - at 300m...

 



Anxter_ #12 Posted 12 October 2017 - 10:53 PM

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View PostWunderWurst, on 12 October 2017 - 06:28 PM, said:

 The entire tank was designed like that. Same goes for the 30b, however WG gave it unhistorical turret armor for whatever reason. Well to make it unique, but it just got closer to the STB-1.

 

Exactly, their idea to make the 30b unique was to basically make it a better STB-1, a tank they have probably completely forgotten exists until they noticed they were missing a few tier 10 HD models.



Beltalowda #13 Posted 13 October 2017 - 12:55 AM

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I'd love to see Leopard 1 being buffed, it's my favorite tank after all, the soft stats are atrocious and this tank suffers so much against other mediums. 

 

I can't see WG buffing this tank anytime soon. Tier X mediums which are in need of buffs (STB-1, Leo 1, Obj 430) are being ignored and instead we have buffs to already strong tanks like Obj 140, Obj 907, Patton, Cent AX.

 

Nah, they don't give a damn about this line, in current meta Leopard 1 is at the bottom of the food chain and something has to be down there to feed other tanks with it's HP pool. 



HundeWurst #14 Posted 13 October 2017 - 01:01 AM

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View PostAikl, on 12 October 2017 - 10:41 PM, said:

 

In-game data says 10mm dropoff at 500m for Patton, CAX, T-62A, 140 and even E50M. The 121 is, for whatever reason, worse at 14mm (and that thing has worse base penetration too). 

 

Wouldn't be a bad idea anyway, though even the accuracy alone would make it kind of interesting. 0.20 would likely not even be enough. 0.30 (base) circle is as large as the T95 frontally - at 300m...

 

 

Well nothing new but sad indeed. A supposing "sniper" tank which sacrifices pretty much everything for decent accuracy and then its a RNG pee shooter anyway... Thats real sad.

Ofc there need to be a good balancing between weakspots size and chances to hit the weakspot.

 

But a tank like the Leo1 would need 0.1 accuracy to be decent. The IS7 will outsnipe the Leo1 on range with is bizzare.



Beltalowda #15 Posted 13 October 2017 - 01:05 AM

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View PostWunderWurst, on 13 October 2017 - 12:01 AM, said:

 

Well nothing new but sad indeed. A supposing "sniper" tank which sacrifices pretty much everything for decent accuracy and then its a RNG pee shooter anyway... Thats real sad.

Ofc there need to be a good balancing between weakspots size and chances to hit the weakspot.

 

But a tank like the Leo1 would need 0.1 accuracy to be decent. The IS7 will outsnipe the Leo1 on range with is bizzare.

 

IS-7 also has better soft stats then Leopard 1, almost everything has better soft stats then this "SNIPER" tank.

 

Tanks with better gun handling then Leopard 1: FV 215b, IS-7, Obj 140, Obj 907, T62a, Cent AX, AMX 30B, Obj 260, Obj 263, Batchat 25t, 121, E-50M, M60, T-22. 

 

There are also tier 9's with better soft stats.


Edited by TrewSx, 13 October 2017 - 01:15 AM.


HundeWurst #16 Posted 13 October 2017 - 01:25 AM

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View PostTrewSx, on 13 October 2017 - 01:05 AM, said:

 

IS-7 also has better soft stats then Leopard 1, almost everything has better soft stats then this "SNIPER" tank.

 

Tanks with better gun handling then Leopard 1: FV 215b, IS-7, Obj 140, Obj 907, T62a, Cent AX, AMX 30B, Obj 260, Obj 263, Batchat 25t, 121, E-50M, M60, T-22. 

 

There are also tier 9's with better soft stats.

 

Well it does not need good softstats. Look at the Grille. Bad softstats yet a good sniper. I like the idea of bad softstats BUT in return insane aimtime. Make the aimtime 1 second, give it 0.1 accuracy and see from there. It wont be able to shoot on the move, but splitseconds (like 2 or 3 seconds) after stopping it would be fully aimed and godlike accuracy, hitting cupolas even on 300+meters range reliable.

 

That would make for unique yet balanced gameplay. Leo1 would be the perfect sniper, but as bad as it now is in brawling situations. To be honest even that would not make the tank much better since you can count the maps on one hand which allow (constant) long range engagement.



Beltalowda #17 Posted 13 October 2017 - 01:35 AM

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Armour or no armour it is still a tier X medium and should be played as such and for that it needs good soft stats. I would increase shell velocity and penetration plus buff the soft stats, but I have no idea if this is a good thing or not. 

 

I have a 6 skill crew, Improved vertical Stab, running chocolate and still it takes a lot of time to fully aim and then RNG screw you over and you bounce 3 out 5, this is really annoying when armour is being sacrificed for "good" gun.


Edited by TrewSx, 13 October 2017 - 01:39 AM.


Strizi #18 Posted 13 October 2017 - 03:40 AM

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  • 593
  • Member since:
    06-16-2011
Yeah buff it, it needs something to make it usefull. And E50M can be buffed at the same time because it needs some serious dpm increase (and maybe a turret buff). German Mediums are not in a good spot right now. I dont understand wargaming why they decided to buff patton, 140 and soon centurion before the germans....

Edited by Strizi, 13 October 2017 - 03:41 AM.


Pandabird #19 Posted 13 October 2017 - 07:28 AM

    Brigadier

  • Player
  • 33973 battles
  • 4,526
  • [KOFF] KOFF
  • Member since:
    05-19-2013

Been playing it a few months ago and it's seriously a pile of trash by now.

 

You have speed so you get a forward location like trying for the hill in mines. You face equally fast autoloader that hits on the move unlike you.

 

Maps are smaller, games are faster, you get spotted easier, you are one of the only tier X tanks that enemy arty can pen. So they'll aim at you because dealing 12 damage to a heavy is unproductive.


You have the engine power to relocate after spotted, you turn a corner. A Type 5 potato sits there and aims a 1400 alpha naval gun at you point blank

 

You repair modules, back off, far back and attempt to at least support snipe. You miss 60% of your shots over 300m, rest bounce on what's supposed to be weakspots

 

You load gold, finally hit and pen. Then you get teamkilled because rest of team is already dead and lolol only thing that TD ever saw was your rear because outside draw distance of anything else


Edited by Pandabird, 13 October 2017 - 07:29 AM.


Dr_Oolen #20 Posted 13 October 2017 - 08:14 AM

    Lieutenant

  • Player
  • 20581 battles
  • 1,553
  • [IDEAL] IDEAL
  • Member since:
    03-13-2012

Speaking of ways to buff tanks while not making them all the same i think that apart from what i suggested for leopard (great accuracy, great aimtime, not shooting too often and necessarily after fully stopping, but when shooting actually hitting and penning) theres only imo one more "archetype" (with 1 subtype in a way) that could be explored for mediums and could be used for example to differentiate 62 140 and 430.

 

Basically its the sort of balancing i had hoped rebalanced lights would get, but it could be used for few mediums aswell.

 

(lets imagine these changes were made to 430 for example)

-> bad base accuracy (0.38-0.42) 0.38 -> 0.4

-> fairly poor aimtime (2.5-2.9) 2.3 -> 2.7

-> insane gun dispersions both on hull and turret (0.03-0.05) 0.14 0.14 0.12 -> 0.04 0.04 0.03

-> mediocre but not bad shell velocity (1100-1300) 1535 -> 1200

-> higher pen drop at distance but higher base pen 264->254 -> 270->235 at 500m

-> for good measure nerf heat shell speed from 900 to 750 and pen from 330 to 315 to discourage heat redlining some more

 

So basically a tank unsuitable for any long range shooting but a tank that never really needs to stop to shoot (so basically the exact opposite of the leopard "archetype")

 

And there could be a possible subtype/flavor of this, except rather than short range oriented it would be long range and i would really love if something like that existed in the game, just 1 tank per tier, certainly not common.

 

I would really love to see some uber low alpha, ultra high accuracy and aimtime tank with so-so penetration (the idea used to be that despite poor pen it would have good enough accuracy and gunhandling to hit even the smallest weakspots fairly reliably, but those are kinda disappearing from the game...). It might not really work well, but id still love it. Basically something along these lines (for a t10 med):

 

- 0.1 acc

- 0.7s aimtime

- 220 alpha

- 245 apcr with 1600 shell speed without dropoff at range; premium either 290 heat with 1200 velocity or 290 apcr with 1700 velocity but slight pen dropoff (290->270 at 500 m, to prevent just lolpenning any "weaker areas", still requiring to shoot at actual weakspots)

- dispersions could imo be whatever between 0.03 and 0.1, but with that low alpha certainly not higher than that

- dpm (rammer, vents/bia) over 4k, so were talking about 2.9-3.3s reload

 






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