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LEOPARD 1 IS WEAK (BUFF REQUIRED IMMEDIATELY)

tier X Tier X med Weak tanks Leopard 1 Tier X Weak Buff

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SplittingVoid #41 Posted 16 October 2017 - 02:41 PM

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Now these are what I call the real deal folks!

 

Decent armour / mobility / Firepower

 

All WG needs to do is to model it...

 

 

So many variants available to choose from ...

http://www.tanks-encyclopedia.com/coldwar/West_Germany/Leopard-I.php


 

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SplittingVoid #42 Posted 22 October 2017 - 03:14 PM

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The power to weight ratio of the vehicle is something that needs to be addressed as well especially , if at all any changes to the vehicle do not consider any armour modifications. I find this to be crucial  to the ability of the vehicle to escape from dangerous situations. Ground resistances as well as a better engine alongside suspension improvements all add to the 'light' role that the tank may be meant to play; somewhat similar to the rhm panzerwagon. But all in all this is a medium tank, with quite a bit of weight. Not much can be done to make it even more mobile to a competitive level without changing certain key features of the vehicle to unreasonable proportions  and so my opinion on improvements are more toward armour buffs... 

Zhongze_Li #43 Posted 22 October 2017 - 04:46 PM

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View PostSplittingVoid, on 22 October 2017 - 03:14 PM, said:

The power to weight ratio of the vehicle is something that needs to be addressed as well especially , if at all any changes to the vehicle do not consider any armour modifications. I find this to be crucial  to the ability of the vehicle to escape from dangerous situations. Ground resistances as well as a better engine alongside suspension improvements all add to the 'light' role that the tank may be meant to play; somewhat similar to the rhm panzerwagon. But all in all this is a medium tank, with quite a bit of weight. Not much can be done to make it even more mobile to a competitive level without changing certain key features of the vehicle to unreasonable proportions  and so my opinion on improvements are more toward armour buffs... 

 

This is an interesting point as I have very good performance in HWK 12 (which is in any respect NOT a tank with good gun handling) but I started to struggle as soon as I go to ru251 and leo pta (which is similar to leo 1). I blame this to the larger profile and slower speed (for the two leos at least), since I can actually move and dodge shells in hwk due to the combination of its speed and small profile. If the leos can be faster (which make them a light tank.... but isn't they supposed to be one originally?) then I think there is potential for them to perform better.

 

P.S the proposition for them having insane gun handling is also very promising indeed. It's all about lowering the exposure time and / or reduce the chance of getting hit.


Edited by Zhongze_Li, 22 October 2017 - 04:47 PM.


SplittingVoid #44 Posted 22 October 2017 - 07:04 PM

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View PostZhongze_Li, on 22 October 2017 - 04:46 PM, said:

 

This is an interesting point as I have very good performance in HWK 12 (which is in any respect NOT a tank with good gun handling) but I started to struggle as soon as I go to ru251 and leo pta (which is similar to leo 1). I blame this to the larger profile and slower speed (for the two leos at least), since I can actually move and dodge shells in hwk due to the combination of its speed and small profile. If the leos can be faster (which make them a light tank.... but isn't they supposed to be one originally?) then I think there is potential for them to perform better.

 

P.S the proposition for them having insane gun handling is also very promising indeed. It's all about lowering the exposure time and / or reduce the chance of getting hit.

 

You read my mind. But the thing is as I had mentioned earlier,  in reality the variants were developed with the idea of more armour. I believe the A3 version had an integral spaced armour mantlet. Since WG did a remodel for the M48 to the A5 version I was thinking perhaps the same could be done for the leopard 1 to it's own A5. It confuses me as to why WG decided for the leopard 1 to go along the lines of the 'light' role with a rather heavy profile as you had pointed out.As things stand, the leopard 1 is as most people will agree with me, in-competitive.

Zhongze_Li #45 Posted 22 October 2017 - 07:17 PM

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View PostSplittingVoid, on 22 October 2017 - 07:04 PM, said:

 

You read my mind. But the thing is as I had mentioned earlier,  in reality the variants were developed with the idea of more armour. I believe the A3 version had an integral spaced armour mantlet. Since WG did a remodel for the M48 to the A5 version I was thinking perhaps the same could be done for the leopard 1 to it's own A5. It confuses me as to why WG decided for the leopard 1 to go along the lines of the 'light' role with a rather heavy profile as you had pointed out.As things stand, the leopard 1 is as most people will agree with me, in-competitive.

 

True, though better turret armor will make leo 1 another generic tank in WOT right now. 

SplittingVoid #46 Posted 23 October 2017 - 02:05 PM

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View PostZhongze_Li, on 22 October 2017 - 07:17 PM, said:

 

True, though better turret armor will make leo 1 another generic tank in WOT right now. 

 

 

 Hehe...well if that's the case so be it. This is world of tanks....so far I've known, a tank means armour.  Every nation strives to improvise technology both in firepower versatility and defensive capabilities of their military vehicles. The leopard 1 series are no exception.If one really wanted the leopard 1 to be unique just in terms of firepower then I think it would fall behind other vehicles like the tvp t 50/51, grille, strv 103 b, WT E 100, and so on. I can't think of something that can make it on par with other vehicles just with high pen and accuracy alone. Any 'NOVEL' ideas?

 
 

 



tajj7 #47 Posted 23 October 2017 - 02:15 PM

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It doesn't need more armour or more mobility, it needs it's strengths of an accurate fast aiming gun with high pen buffed so it;s unique role remains but it's just a lot better at it than it was.

 

As Oolen suggested on the previous pages, pen buffs, accuracy buffs, aim time buffs, shell velocity buffs etc. 

 

Just make it the best sniper tank in the game. 

 

 



HundeWurst #48 Posted 23 October 2017 - 03:45 PM

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View PostSplittingVoid, on 22 October 2017 - 07:04 PM, said:

 

You read my mind. But the thing is as I had mentioned earlier,  in reality the variants were developed with the idea of more armour. I believe the A3 version had an integral spaced armour mantlet. Since WG did a remodel for the M48 to the A5 version I was thinking perhaps the same could be done for the leopard 1 to it's own A5. It confuses me as to why WG decided for the leopard 1 to go along the lines of the 'light' role with a rather heavy profile as you had pointed out.As things stand, the leopard 1 is as most people will agree with me, in-competitive.

 

You are aware that the Leopard 1 was ONLY desinged around having NO armor against anti armor warheads? Leo1 was designed the way it is in the game. No armor vs anti tank weapons, due to the requirements of that time period. HEAT warheads were simply to strong than to be able to counter them with conventional steel armor.

So yes Leo1 and non of its upgrades ever really focused on more protection via passive armor. Same would go for the AMX 30b. It never had any armor since whle protection with classic steel armor would have been possible, the tanks would simply not move any more as they would have been to heavy.

Only ever after Explosive reactive armor and composite armor was developed proper passive armor came into play again as it was possible to defeat these new HEAT warheads with that kind of armor.

 

Leo1 only got a turret armor upgrade, at the same time the turret was later redesigned, not to improve the protection but much more to gain additional internal space for newer and bigger modules.

Leo1 should keep its bad armor as it is. However in return the tank could be buffed in a rather interesting way, which could also display how the tank would have been used in reality: Long range engagement, one shot one kill tank.

Well the problem with the Leo1 lies partically in WGs hitpoint system (not that the system is bad but it just does not fit the reality).

 

Buff the standard penetration to 285mm.

Remove the APCR penetration drop over range for this tank. (you might as well call it APDS/APFSDS then)

Buff the shell speed to 1750 m/s.

Buff the accuracy to 0.1 m over 100m

Buff the aimtime to 1 second. Maybe even more - less than 1 second.

 

Keep the rest as it is:

You know have an extremely high performing range engagement tank. Thats what Leo1 was supposed to be in reality as well. It is bad in brawling situations due to armor and gun handling but will outperform any tank there is on longer ranges.

Historical semi accurate, while still unique and fun, not gamebreaking.



Maki711 #49 Posted 23 October 2017 - 03:55 PM

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View PostAikl, on 12 October 2017 - 10:41 PM, said:

 

In-game data says 10mm dropoff at 500m for Patton, CAX, T-62A, 140 and even E50M. The 121 is, for whatever reason, worse at 14mm (and that thing has worse base penetration too). 

 

Wouldn't be a bad idea anyway, though even the accuracy alone would make it kind of interesting. 0.20 would likely not even be enough. 0.30 (base) circle is as large as the T95 frontally - at 300m...

 

 

And as you can see here, this game is a lot luck based.

I does not matter if you know the weak spots or/and have the best accuracy, the RNG will still fuq you.
And people want this game to be esport / mlg ready with such high luck factor ???

Please. Ridiculous.  



SplittingVoid #50 Posted 23 October 2017 - 04:07 PM

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View PostMaki711, on 23 October 2017 - 03:55 PM, said:

 

And as you can see here, this game is a lot luck based.

I does not matter if you know the weak spots or/and have the best accuracy, the RNG will still fuq you.
And people want this game to be esport / mlg ready with such high luck factor ???

Please. Ridiculous.  

 

Well ...I'm pretty much of the same opinion. Though I can understand what people say about the buffs being limited to just firepower, I'd like to ask this. If a tvp t 50/51 were in front of you.. would you be scared? consider the same scenario with the FV4005, strv 103b, grille,  and such. Now consider the leopard 1 with the same armour profile and buffed firepower. That fear of taking damage just isn't there. It's like meh...300-400 goes I can return fire (if in another tank turret armour likely to bounce even heat). So , it really goes without saying that an armour buff is pretty much the only solution to make it slightly competitive. I mean it's all on WG to make tests and see the result. Of course, we do need to consider just the average player and not some unicorn with a six skilled crew or something...



Maki711 #51 Posted 26 October 2017 - 01:19 PM

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View PostSplittingVoid, on 23 October 2017 - 04:07 PM, said:

 

Well ...I'm pretty much of the same opinion. Though I can understand what people say about the buffs being limited to just firepower, I'd like to ask this. If a tvp t 50/51 were in front of you.. would you be scared? consider the same scenario with the FV4005, strv 103b, grille,  and such. Now consider the leopard 1 with the same armour profile and buffed firepower. That fear of taking damage just isn't there. It's like meh...300-400 goes I can return fire (if in another tank turret armour likely to bounce even heat). So , it really goes without saying that an armour buff is pretty much the only solution to make it slightly competitive. I mean it's all on WG to make tests and see the result. Of course, we do need to consider just the average player and not some unicorn with a six skilled crew or something...

 

You can't really take an autoloader as an example here. In my opinion all autoloaders are unbalanced and should not be in this game at all.
When you meet 50/51 (of any other autoloader) in one versus one situation he just removes your HP in matter of seconds (and got the mobility to just disappear) and god forbid if you are not full HP, he straight up kills you 90% of the time.

Other tanks you mentioned are one-shot tanks, means that you have time to move when that tank hits you or miss you.

 

I still do not understand why BC needs to have 5 shots.

4 shots are enough for that kind of tank.

And whats worse is that they removed WT auf E-100 with 4 or 5 shots, depending what gun you use, but added the new Foch with 6 shots, sorry wtf ???

 

WT you could at least shoot straight in the turret with HE and disable his gun or just kill him with 1-3 HE(SH) shots.

Yeah, good luck killing new Foch when his cupolas are that "big/small". It is possible but when I compare how easily I killed WT and how hard I kill the new Foch, I think that WG messed up really good.

If you ask me, if WG really wants to have autoloaders in this game, then they should make tanks with no more than 4 shots per clip, everything above is game breaking

 

70% win rate with ~3800 dmg in 93 rounds as new Foch is maybe, just maybe, totally broken ? (Yeah, on smurf/statpadder acc...)


But I agree with the armour buff, but only turret armour buff with 10° gun depression.



SplittingVoid #52 Posted 27 October 2017 - 08:03 PM

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Just thought of something new...The successive models of A3 and above had improved targeting systems. Sooooooooo....maybe in order to make the tank unique we could have a 100% auto-aim feature? hehe. In other words, making this thing with a bot aim....:P

SplittingVoid #53 Posted 14 December 2017 - 10:03 AM

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you know what...I wonder why this tank is even in the game..maybe wg should remove this.

Three_Rounds_Rapid #54 Posted 14 December 2017 - 12:00 PM

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Didn't get the memo huh?

 

Block Quote

The Leopard is very strong, a good sniper from 2nd or 3rd line. If you are the first one to get spotted, you won’t do so well, but with that penetration, accuracy, camouflage it is a great all-rounder and it would be too OP if we buffed it.

 

http://forum.worldof...ng-wgs-last-qa/

 



_b_ #55 Posted 14 December 2017 - 12:06 PM

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What Three Rounds said ... leo is op ...according to devs responsible for balancing ... :amazed::child:

CornDaFlakes #56 Posted 14 December 2017 - 12:12 PM

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WG PLS DON'T BUFF THE LEOPARD IT WILL BE SUPER OP!!!!!!!

nobble #57 Posted 14 December 2017 - 12:19 PM

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I would like small buffs to Hull dispersion, shell velocity and accuracy, that should do it.

 

Keep the leo 1 unique, long range sniper, relocater, end game assassin.

 


 



pecopad #58 Posted 14 December 2017 - 12:29 PM

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Never understood why the Leopard has better gun handling than the Centurian....

 

Leopard should be a generic tank, worst than the Centurians,  Amx and Chieftains. Also worst than the Russians and American tanks.

 

There is no reason to make German tier 10 tanks the best in the game, apart from the large German tank fan base


Edited by pecopad, 14 December 2017 - 12:30 PM.


brumbarr #59 Posted 14 December 2017 - 12:33 PM

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View Postpecopad, on 14 December 2017 - 12:29 PM, said:

Never understood why the Leopard has better gun handling than the Centurian....

 

Leopard should be a generic tank, worst than the Centurians,  Amx and Chieftains. Also worst than the Russians and American tanks.

 

There is no reason to make German tier 10 tanks the best in the game, apart from the large German tank fan base

Wtf?



nobble #60 Posted 14 December 2017 - 12:40 PM

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Quote from Daily bounce Q & A

 

'The Leopard is very strong, a good sniper from 2nd or 3rd line. If you are the first one to get spotted, you won’t do so well, but with that penetration, accuracy, camouflage it is a great all-rounder and it would be too OP if we buffed it.'






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