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[Poll] Is it time to change the way you are rewarded for a game?

WoT WoWP Rewards experience

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Poll: Experience earned across teams. (53 members have cast votes)

You have to complete 250 battles in order to participate this poll.

Would WoT be better if your earned experience based on your ability across both teams?

  1. Yes. (29 votes [54.72%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 54.72%

  2. No. (22 votes [41.51%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 41.51%

  3. I don't have an opinion on it. (2 votes [3.77%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 3.77%

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HJN #1 Posted 13 October 2017 - 07:20 PM

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So yesterday, Jingles uploaded a gameplay video of the new World of WarPlanes 2.0
https://www.youtube....h?v=KEx1UQJ5sec
Nothing special about it. He seems to like it but what caught my attention was when he showed us a result screen after a game.

Spoiler
As you can see, he ended up top on XP received, for both teams. The plot twist is, he did that on a lost game.
He just did better than anyone in the game and was rewarded for it.
 
How many of you have had this game where you do more damage, kill more enemies, do what ever it takes to win the game, do better than anyone else in that game and you still lose.
The result screen tells you, that though you did better than the other 29 players in that game, you only received half XP of what the person on the winning team gets, even if he only did 1/3 of what you did.
Sometimes you even get less than than the worst player on the enemy team, whom fired 1 shot and did 0 damage.
Don't you feel robbed?
 
What would happen if WG implemented this in World of Tanks?
Would it change anything?

Would it make you feel less frustrated about a lost game, if you was rewarded in a way that better reflect your combat abilities in that battle.
Is it a better system than the one we have now, where your reward are decided more on how well the rest of your team do (win / loss)?
Will it end the 1000 forum threads about MM as you don't need to care how well your teammates do, to get a good result from a game?
Will it make people more egoistic in their gameplay, as their own result matters more?
Will it lead to more XVM stats padding noob camping?
 
Anyway. Let me hear your take on it.
And don't forget to vote.
 
NB: English is not my native language, so if you want to complain over some misspelled words, please do so in my native tongue - Danish!


speedphlux #2 Posted 13 October 2017 - 09:23 PM

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I did played a bit of WoWp this afternoon ... That is not XP, but Damage Dealt measuring number. It's fairly easy to get "Top on both teams" in a Heavy Fighter, just killing ground targets and occasionally shooting down ground-attack planes for the lulz. I'm not even sure if it even represents the actual damage dealt or does it have some sort of multiplier to it. Anyways, there is still quite the gap between winning and loosing. Even with "Heroic Medals" on the loosing side, with Premium account, I was not able to get over 1k XP per battle on a loss. While on winning, w/o the daily tripple, was very easy to score 1k to 1,8k XP. Just like in WoT.

 

Given the incentive you get in WoT by getting medals on a loss, the system is better (from my experience) to the one in WoWp 2.0. I don't think a completely unbiased reward system would work. It will definately lead to two things - people just driving forward and suiciding and spotting everything, and people just redlining and farming damage. I like to have the initiative of winning, not just to boost my ego, but also to make me into a team player.



250swb #3 Posted 13 October 2017 - 09:37 PM

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If you do very well and get a High Calibre Medal you already get rewarded as if you were on the winning team. What more do you want?

tumppi776 #4 Posted 14 October 2017 - 09:30 AM

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View Post250swb, on 13 October 2017 - 08:37 PM, said:

If you do very well and get a High Calibre Medal you already get rewarded as if you were on the winning team. What more do you want?

 

I want to be awarded by my performance every game. Not the performance of 14 bots.

 

If I do nothing and the team wins - I deserve nothing etc fair rewarding system


Edited by tumppi776, 14 October 2017 - 09:31 AM.


jack_timber #5 Posted 14 October 2017 - 10:11 AM

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Well had courageous resistance a few times when team have lost but had a high damage dealt score. This gives you extra XP and silver....

PS your English is way better than my Danish:)


Edited by jack_timber, 14 October 2017 - 10:13 AM.


Vajsravana #6 Posted 14 October 2017 - 11:11 AM

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Yes, it's time for a change. Time to stop rewarding people for losing the game.

 



Jigabachi #7 Posted 14 October 2017 - 11:18 AM

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View Posttumppi776, on 14 October 2017 - 09:30 AM, said:

I want to be awarded by my performance every game. Not the performance of 14 bots.

 

If I do nothing and the team wins - I deserve nothing etc fair rewarding system

The problem with that is that the computer has to decide about that fairness - and that doesn't work.

Being on top of the list in a lost match doesn't mean that you are the brave hero who really did everything to win, it could also mean that you are the reason for the defeat, because you decided to basecamp in your toptier heavy tank and all you did was shooting and killing damaged enemies when the match was already over.

And that's something that should never get rewarded. Or rewarded even more, as it already is an actual problem. 



Userext #8 Posted 14 October 2017 - 11:22 AM

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View PostJigabachi, on 14 October 2017 - 11:18 AM, said:

The problem with that is that the computer has to decide about that fairness - and that doesn't work.

Being on top of the list in a lost match doesn't mean that you are the brave hero who really did everything to win, it could also mean that you are the reason for the defeat, because you decided to basecamp in your toptier heavy tank and all you did was shooting and killing damaged enemies when the match was already over.

And that's something that should never get rewarded. Or rewarded even more, as it already is an actual problem. 

 

+1

 

I have seen camper dummies get rushed by enemy at the end of matches where they pack up 3k damage from just that occasion. These people don't deserve the exp nor the glorification. Enemy teams just throw their tanks at these last-stand campers and die. There is no contribution to team in anyway.



HJN #9 Posted 14 October 2017 - 11:32 AM

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View Postspeedphlux, on 13 October 2017 - 09:23 PM, said:

I did played a bit of WoWp this afternoon ... That is not XP, but Damage Dealt measuring number. It's fairly easy to get "Top on both teams" in a Heavy Fighter, just killing ground targets and occasionally shooting down ground-attack planes for the lulz. I'm not even sure if it even represents the actual damage dealt or does it have some sort of multiplier to it. Anyways, there is still quite the gap between winning and loosing. Even with "Heroic Medals" on the loosing side, with Premium account, I was not able to get over 1k XP per battle on a loss. While on winning, w/o the daily tripple, was very easy to score 1k to 1,8k XP. Just like in WoT.

 

Given the incentive you get in WoT by getting medals on a loss, the system is better (from my experience) to the one in WoWp 2.0. I don't think a completely unbiased reward system would work. It will definately lead to two things - people just driving forward and suiciding and spotting everything, and people just redlining and farming damage. I like to have the initiative of winning, not just to boost my ego, but also to make me into a team player.

That's what you get for not doing your research right.

I just thought it was xp as that was what Jingles said.

Thanks for clearing that up :-)

 

Just not going to change my post, as I think, people are still able to understand the idea I was trying to convey.


Edited by HJN, 14 October 2017 - 11:34 AM.


PointZero #10 Posted 14 October 2017 - 11:52 AM

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I haven't touched the game myself but If you look at the usernames it's pretty obvious he was playing with and against bots. Apparent with the low player population and confirmed with a quick glance in WoWP wiki that says "Each battle includes a number of bots added to each side to help fill out the teams."

 

AmiralHipst3r and oli4800[LVG] kinda stand out from "Washington", "Leonid" "German" and the lot. The 1st game likely had 4 real players per team and on the 2nd it was just Jingles and if I had to guess uzaun on the enemy team since he's the only guy on that team who's nick doesn't start properly with a capital letter.



Balc0ra #11 Posted 14 October 2017 - 12:30 PM

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Considering I got 11K XP on my first WOWP game after the update... for just going from circle to circle shooting down bots... Then no. It's not the same.

 

See the greyed out plus sign next to all players but one on the enemy team? That's the bot players. The plus sign is the only human player on the enemy team. That's why they did "so well", because most games only have 2-3 human players in it. Even at peak hours. Thus they went for the BF system instead. As in you can farm XP just by staying in one cap circle shooting down bots attacking it all fight, and still get enough XP on a loss getting more then anyone easy. As they did more or less remove the loss XP. Why? Because of the low population, and the fact that at least 90% of the targets you face during a day are bots. They decided to increase the speed of grinding to make it feel more rewarding, vs grinding for weeks vs bots to get a tier X.

 

View PostHJN, on 13 October 2017 - 07:20 PM, said:

How many of you have had this game where you do more damage, kill more enemies, do what ever it takes to win the game, do better than anyone else in that game and you still lose.
The result screen tells you, that though you did better than the other 29 players in that game, you only received half XP of what the person on the winning team gets, even if he only did 1/3 of what you did.

 

You want to know the difference between WOT and WOWP? You can't engage enemies across the map. MG rage is short, so you have to get up close and into the fight to get anything. On WOT you can still get top damage, and get a top gun camping the red line 500m away from any fight, and never get spotted and not really "helping" anyone until the rest of the team is dead. And should you still be rewarded more for that to? Just because you did more then anyone? As then it would be like season 1 of ranked. Everyone would go to the red line on a loss to farm the XP they "deserve". I can see that working.

 

 



HJN #12 Posted 14 October 2017 - 01:34 PM

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View PostBalc0ra, on 14 October 2017 - 12:30 PM, said:

...

 

You want to know the difference between WOT and WOWP? You can't engage enemies across the map. MG rage is short, so you have to get up close and into the fight to get anything. On WOT you can still get top damage, and get a top gun camping the red line 500m away from any fight, and never get spotted and not really "helping" anyone until the rest of the team is dead. And should you still be rewarded more for that to? Just because you did more then anyone? As then it would be like season 1 of ranked. Everyone would go to the red line on a loss to farm the XP they "deserve". I can see that working.

 

 

I actually think thats already covered in the way rewards are calculated now.

If you have two players in the same kind of tank, doing the same amounts of damage and kills the same amount of enemies but one do it up close and personally and the other from red line, the first on gets more xp, I think because of the spotting mechanic.

Correct me if I'm wrong.

 

The problem I'm trying to address is; if you are having a really good game, killing 5 enemies etc etc. but then die and the only one left on your team is your top tier heavy, sitting on red line, snipping and doing lots of damage but in the end, is the reason your team lose - why should you be punished for that? Why should you get less xp from his bad play? Why should you get less xp than someone from the winning team that did didily s..t for his team to win?

 

Personally I think the mechanic in the game, that is calculating the final result and rewards are perfectly capable of distinguish between a good player and a red line xvm padder.

 

But maybe my faith in the game is to high. I don't know.



Gremlin182 #13 Posted 14 October 2017 - 01:44 PM

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Doing well in a game gives you credits but not especially XP sometimes this is frustrating because many are trying to grind tank lines and modules and its xp they want because that is specific to the tank you earned it on.

So drive out of the base get shot by invisible enemy or just drive off a cliff if the game ends in a win for your team you are likely to get say 1k+ xp and not much in the way of credits.

Play your heart out go down fighting on a losing game and get fewer credits but lots of xp.

 

Actively playing the game and doing well personally should be rewarded with both credits and xp.

Doing nothing should get you no xp, but you would get some credits as now.


Edited by Gremlin182, 14 October 2017 - 01:45 PM.


vasilinhorulezz #14 Posted 14 October 2017 - 02:27 PM

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Yea, let's reward red line camping super heavies, with more xp and credits...:mellow:

 

Why not? They did survive more than their teammates, they did more damage, they killed more people.

 

They might have contribute to the teams loss, but they got top on xp in the end game plate,

 

REWARD THEM!!!!



Mimos_A #15 Posted 14 October 2017 - 02:34 PM

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There's no need to further disincentivise risky plays that might turn a game. Rewarding some on the losing team more will only lead to more idiots interpreting that as an incentive to play passive (just look at the ridiculously stale gameplay at lower ranks in ranked...). The last thing the current meta needs is more passive play. Sure, it's annoying to get shafted when you did everything you could, but hey, that's life, sometimes you just get shafted. Same goes for trying something, getting annihilated early on and still winning.

 

EDIT: thinking about it: when I lose I'm annoyed because I lost, unless they start handing out Fort Knox's for doing well on a loss I really don't give a crap about the reward.


Edited by Mimos_A, 14 October 2017 - 02:50 PM.


RamRaid90 #16 Posted 14 October 2017 - 02:41 PM

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View Posttumppi776, on 14 October 2017 - 08:30 AM, said:

 

I want to be awarded by my performance every game. Not the performance of 14 bots.

 

If I do nothing and the team wins - I deserve nothing etc fair rewarding system

 

And rewarding people for try harding but still losing will just mess the game up even more.

 

I don't want to be rewarded for losing.



speedphlux #17 Posted 14 October 2017 - 02:55 PM

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Here's an old replay (just for stats comparing) from 8.10, after the "heroic effort" was introduced.

http://wotreplays.eu/site/508257#lakeville-speedphlux-cromwell

 

You can basically see from the stats, that the game rewarded each one correctly, for everything that they attributed to the battle. My XP from this battle was high, because most of my damage was dealt vs the IS-3s and Lowe. And as an added bonus, I managed to finish off the two Cromwells and the T29. My performance in this battle was adequate to the rewards I've gotten. Had I sneaked in another 3 kills or another 1k damage and gotten a Top Gun or High Caliber, I would prolly walked out of the game with more base XP then the Cromwell on the winning team. But that the difference - I didn't, while his play contributed to his team's victory much more. You could argue that my efforts in this match were bigger then his, but I beg to differ - his team won and mine didn't. I should've been able to contribute more by any means needed. My spotting was lack-luster, my shots were missing and I was bouncing. For this much effort, I'm quite happy with the result.

Had I been on a team where more people would've been "pulling their weight", then I wouldn't been able to get as good result as I did. Hence the opposing Cromwell contribution may seem lesser. Any of you recently had a 15-0 whitewash sorta game ? My last one was yesterday in my 121. Full Tier 10 game. I was top on damage on my team ... with 3,1k dealt. Everyone else did between 1,2k and 2,8k. End result - none above 780 base XP. Even thou we had an E5 with Top Gun (6 kills), but he managed a pathetic 1,2k damage.

System at the moment is pretty well balanced. Althou, I admit, looking at Tier 10 Light tanks XP rewards, specially when the spread is 3-5-7, looks a bit lacking. Also Arty seems a bit neglected. No matter why I try to do in mine, I can never get decent base XP out of a game.



tumppi776 #18 Posted 16 October 2017 - 06:06 AM

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View PostJigabachi, on 14 October 2017 - 10:18 AM, said:

....

Being on top of the list in a lost match doesn't mean that you are the brave hero who really did everything to win, it could also mean that you are the reason for the defeat, because you decided to basecamp in your toptier heavy tank ..

 

If someone get top xp in basecamping heavy - I can tell you now that the problem isnt the base camping heavy :-)

Edited by tumppi776, 16 October 2017 - 06:06 AM.


Homer_J #19 Posted 16 October 2017 - 06:20 AM

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View PostHJN, on 14 October 2017 - 11:32 AM, said:

That's what you get for not doing your research right.

I just thought it was xp as that was what Jingles said.

Thanks for clearing that up :-)

 

Just not going to change my post, as I think, people are still able to understand the idea I was trying to convey.

 

I see, so you know  your post is misleading, yet you are going to leave it factually incorrect because it supports your cause.

 

Are you Donald Trump?

 

Anyway, no matter how you distribute the exp there is such a thing as a game economy and WG do not want to distribute too much exp so all you will do is take some away from the winners and give it to the losers.  The people who will lose out are the good players who currently win more than they lose, the winners will be the bad players who will start getting lots of exp for sitting at the back farming damage.


Edited by Homer_J, 16 October 2017 - 06:28 AM.


HJN #20 Posted 16 October 2017 - 06:53 AM

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View PostHomer_J, on 16 October 2017 - 06:20 AM, said:

 

I see, so you know  your post is misleading, yet you are going to leave it factually incorrect because it supports your cause.

 

Are you Donald Trump?

...

No. Just you're average politician.

Isn't that what people normally do on thise forums?







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