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It is Time for 25% rng to go.


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_VoiVittu_ #1 Posted 20 October 2017 - 12:00 PM

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Title says it all. Its ok for lower tiers to have 25% but when numbers go bigger it can have ridiculous situations.
 
I had enough when i rushed the last living enemy with My lorraine 40t. He had 235hp and i had 300alpha gun. Result? Absolute minimin low Roll 230 damage, and i died leaving the last enemy with 5hp.
 
How you can plan anything when the most important game mechanic is pure lottery. Two defenders can Fight each other with 225pen, another one gains upperhand and manages to flank. Defender had 170mm Side armor, and if rng [edited]with you, 225pen (169pen min.) Isnt enough to go through.
 
Some room for luck is ok to have, i suggest that rng for pen and damage should be 5-10%. Is it more than that, you can really rely on anything.
 
 


Hedgehog1963 #2 Posted 20 October 2017 - 12:03 PM

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Handling the effects of RNG is as much a skill as anything else on WoT.   If you hadn't "rushed" you might not have died.

Edited by Hedgehog1963, 20 October 2017 - 12:04 PM.


Enforcer1975 #3 Posted 20 October 2017 - 12:07 PM

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Yeah sometimes it's annoying....you need 6 shots to kill a tank....5 hits, 5 pens and the killshot bounces. Tbh it's too suspicious.

HeidenSieker #4 Posted 20 October 2017 - 12:07 PM

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View Post6kalle9, on 20 October 2017 - 12:00 PM, said:

Title says it all.
 
How you can plan anything when the most important game mechanic is pure lottery.

 

1) No, it does not, really. It makes no mention of anything curvy.

 

2) It is not "pure lottery".


Edited by HeidenSieker, 20 October 2017 - 12:08 PM.


PaiNzzz #5 Posted 20 October 2017 - 12:21 PM

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View PostHedgehog1963, on 20 October 2017 - 02:03 PM, said:

Handling the effects of RNG is as much a skill as anything else on WoT.   If you hadn't "rushed" you might not have died.

 

Well, it is part of the skill. But 25% is just too much SOME times.

The larger the number is, the more severe the RNG.

Example: Two Jgpz E-100 trade shots and one hits for 840, while the other hits for 1312. Both took the same risk, but one is hit for ~40% of his HP, and the other for ~60% of his HP, which is just too much of a difference. Even more so if one gets max pen roll and deals his 800-1300 damage and the other one gets a seriously low pen roll and deals 0.

 

I won't take accuracy's RNG into account, because when I was playing the Centurion lines, accuracy was something like 50% to hit what you aim for (or really close to that) and 50% to the rest of the circle, which was ridiculous. Hitting with an accurate gun tiny weakspots 500m across was just... wrong. By the way, this was somewhere in the time that there was also penetration inflation in game and everyone shot (almost) everyone in the face.

 

I think that while RNG should of course exist, it should be a little less, but not reduced to only 5% as the OP suggests, because it will make all the moves extremely calculated. This is not chess or a purely strategy game that has from none to minimal RNG, nor should it be.

 

TL;DR: I disagree with 5% but also 25% RNG. RNG should exist, it just needs to be moderated. If I had to say numbers I'd say anything between 15-20%. I am by no means an expert :P

 

Good luck and fair seas!



PaiNzzz #6 Posted 20 October 2017 - 12:27 PM

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View PostEnforcer1975, on 20 October 2017 - 02:07 PM, said:

Yeah sometimes it's annoying....you need 6 shots to kill a tank....5 hits, 5 pens and the killshot bounces. Tbh it's too suspicious.

 

It's just because dinging the first shot and killing him with 5 continuous penetrating shots doesn't make an impression. Both happen, but only one is frustrating, and thus, memorable. There was a conspiracy theory a while back that "killshots" did less damage so the target was left with ~30 HP to make use of the Adrenaline Rush perk or whatever each tinfoil-hatter thought :P

Edited by PaiNzzz, 20 October 2017 - 12:28 PM.


dan_dix #7 Posted 20 October 2017 - 12:33 PM

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How about no? RNG is one of the most fun aspects of this game. It's one of those things that shouldn't really need to be explained.

 

That being said I am also quite puzzled of how often I see tanks with 1-2% (or whereabouts) HP left - my paranoiac side thinks that RNG in fact does favour tank survival and rolls low to leave the target alive more often than one would expect from a normal distribution... but I don't have sufficient data to prove it :P

 



Balc0ra #8 Posted 20 October 2017 - 12:38 PM

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Considering we had plenty of player leaving WOT for a "better" game that said they would have less RNG to name one, as the people wanted it. And it turned out to be one of the reasons it failed. Then I suspect it's not the worst idea to leave it around. As there if you had no chance to take a hit, you ran. As the RNG was more flat, even more so vs +1 targets. Unlike here where it's risk = reward, you took it. And got the risk, but not the reward.

 

Picture this. 10 seconds left vs a higher tier HT head on. Do you dare to take one hit and hope you get an above average pen roll to win? Or wait for the draw? As for that other game... it was draw or loss every time if you lacked pen. So either Risk = Reward. Or Risk = Punishment. Because if the RNG was less... it would screw your bad players on your team more so then you.


Edited by Balc0ra, 20 October 2017 - 12:39 PM.


OreH75 #9 Posted 20 October 2017 - 12:46 PM

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View Post6kalle9, on 20 October 2017 - 12:00 PM, said:

Title says it all. Its ok for lower tiers to have 25% but when numbers go bigger it can have ridiculous situations.
 
I had enough when i rushed the last living enemy with My lorraine 40t. He had 235hp and i had 300alpha gun. Result? Absolute minimin low Roll 230 damage, and i died leaving the last enemy with 5hp.
 
How you can plan anything when the most important game mechanic is pure lottery. Two defenders can Fight each other with 225pen, another one gains upperhand and manages to flank. Defender had 170mm Side armor, and if rng [edited]with you, 225pen (169pen min.) Isnt enough to go through.
 
Some room for luck is ok to have, i suggest that rng for pen and damage should be 5-10%. Is it more than that, you can really rely on anything.
 
 

 

Your definition of "one-shot" is just wrong: You think "one-shot = Enemy-HP < My-average-alpha-damage" but in fact it shoud be "one-shot = Enemy-HP < My-average-alpha-damage-25%".

 

Small difference, big mistake and lowering the number to 5 or 10% would lead to the same mistake of thinking you could kil a 265 HP enemy with your 300 alpha gun but with 300-10% you can/will still leave him at 5 HP.

 


Edited by OreH75, 20 October 2017 - 12:50 PM.


Phobos4321 #10 Posted 20 October 2017 - 12:48 PM

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and if you got the 10% RNG and you left over 1 hp of the 271 hp target you will come here again right ?

Shivva #11 Posted 20 October 2017 - 12:50 PM

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View Postdan_dix, on 20 October 2017 - 11:33 AM, said:

 

That being said I am also quite puzzled of how often I see tanks with 1-2% (or whereabouts) HP left - my paranoiac side thinks that RNG in fact does favour tank survival and rolls low to leave the target alive more often than one would expect from a normal distribution... but I don't have sufficient data to prove it :P

 

 

What about all the dead tanks that died because the last shot on them done 1% or 2% extra dmg, you are failing to take them into consideration.

HugSeal #12 Posted 20 October 2017 - 12:52 PM

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View Postdan_dix, on 20 October 2017 - 12:33 PM, said:

How about no? RNG is one of the most fun aspects of this game. It's one of those things that shouldn't really need to be explained.

 

That being said I am also quite puzzled of how often I see tanks with 1-2% (or whereabouts) HP left - my paranoiac side thinks that RNG in fact does favour tank survival and rolls low to leave the target alive more often than one would expect from a normal distribution... but I don't have sufficient data to prove it :P

 

 

I on the other hand find it suspicious how often I roll high when I kill enemy tanks. If I shoot a tank with 50 hp left I often maxroll the damage dealing 500 or so to it, what a wasted highroll.

 

(If the point isn't obvious, lowrolls are visible, highrolls aren't. That's why you notice the lowrolls)



Spurtung #13 Posted 20 October 2017 - 12:52 PM

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View PostEnforcer1975, on 20 October 2017 - 01:07 PM, said:

Yeah sometimes it's annoying....you need 6 shots to kill a tank....5 hits, 5 pens and the killshot bounces. Tbh it's too suspicious.

 

Ah, the mercy roll. That [edited].

PaiNzzz #14 Posted 20 October 2017 - 12:54 PM

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View PostShivva, on 20 October 2017 - 02:50 PM, said:

 

What about all the dead tanks that died because the last shot on them done 1% or 2% extra dmg, you are failing to take them into consideration.

 

Most people do. I work with statistics a lot and people tend to forget their above average results, because bad events are more memorable. I do notice killing targets with more than 400 HP with my 400 damage gun quite a lot. To name a few, 485 and 477 were two kills during the same game with my T110E5.

 

And as Phobos said, yeah, no one comes to post or whine about their above average shots.



DaSmith #15 Posted 20 October 2017 - 12:57 PM

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View PostEnforcer1975, on 20 October 2017 - 12:07 PM, said:

Yeah sometimes it's annoying....you need 6 shots to kill a tank....5 hits, 5 pens and the killshot bounces. Tbh it's too suspicious.

 

Yeah, the mercy bounce/miss is really annoying and can make people pull their hair out by the handfuls...

Userext #16 Posted 20 October 2017 - 12:59 PM

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View PostHedgehog1963, on 20 October 2017 - 12:03 PM, said:

Handling the effects of RNG is as much a skill as anything else on WoT.

 

If you were the one to roll the dice sure, it'd be skill but you don't have any control over it.

You can shoot the back of a tank or the front of a tank but it won't give you a better damage value just because you shot the less armoured part.

You can roll the lowest amount of penetration even though there is no barrier blocking such roll from happening

You can shoot fully aimed and miss 10 in a row(happened to me in strv s1 siege mode)

 

You can't handle the effects of RNG if there is no handle to control it with. The only part of RNG you can control is accuracy and even then, the distribution doesn't change only dispersion changes. You have 10% chance to hit bull's eye no matter what you are doing.



Search_Warrant #17 Posted 20 October 2017 - 01:04 PM

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Penetration RNG should be the only thing to go. the rest can stay. as much as it sucks it would make big guns OP as there dispersion would be greatly increased, accurate guns would get screwed even more as they are usualy low caliber.

unrealname #18 Posted 20 October 2017 - 01:31 PM

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well u cant get lucky all the time, but i had some really nice rng in E100 recently, one of them 1121 with HE on grille, while average is only 950, so just a little lower than max possible dmg roll.

Edited by Bond90, 20 October 2017 - 01:31 PM.


HassenderZerhacker #19 Posted 20 October 2017 - 01:33 PM

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I'm not opposed to RNG, but I have a problem with it as it doesn't seem to be applied on a per shot basis, my experience has been that the effects last for an entire battle. there are battles where almost nothing hits - this applies both to my own shots as it does to enemy shots - and other battles where I can shoot anything and repeatedly hit, even when driving 60 kph, doing impossible shots. Sometimes I would know I missed, see my shell fly several meters off the target, yet the server would decide it was a hit. This is with 20ms ping.

Sometimes enemies hit my VK 45.02B's cupola from 300m away. then the same player hits it again, and again, and again, inspite of me moving and wiggling...

It certainly doesn't feel legit.

Not only does RNG seem to be applied on a per battle basis, but furthermore the server is doctoring shot results. it is also occasionally doctoring aim.

I remember aiming the other day at a tiger II's turret roof, yet the server reticle jumped and locked itself on the Tiger's cupola. I wasn't even aiming there... it remained locked there even when I moved the aim slightly and lost aim only when I moved my aim away by more than 30cm or so. very strange experience, I saw that happen only a couple of times.


Edited by HassenderZerhacker, 20 October 2017 - 01:40 PM.


unrealname #20 Posted 20 October 2017 - 01:40 PM

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View PostHassenderZerhacker, on 20 October 2017 - 02:33 PM, said:

I'm not opposed to RNG, but I have a problem with it as it doesn't seem to be applied on a per shot basis, my experience has been that the effects last for an entire battle. there are battles where almost nothing hits - this applies both to my own shots as it does to enemy shots - and other battles where I can shoot anything and repeatedly hit, even when driving 60 kph, doing impossible shots. Sometimes I would know I missed, see my shell fly several meters off the target, yet the server would decide it was a hit. This is with 20ms ping.

Sometimes enemies hit my VK 45.02B's cupola from 300m away. then the same player hits it again, and again, and again, inspite of me moving and wiggling...

It certainly doesn't feel legit.

 

even though i did quite good with vk, i sold it for now, as that the exact problem i was facing, everyone left and right hit my cupola like it was the same size a on 59 patton lol, or maybe it actually is, its just not shown in vehicle modeling :D




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