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M2/M2 Light is the next T18

small op sealclubber moms spaghetti

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Derethim #1 Posted 23 October 2017 - 05:09 PM

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I see a lot of these when I occasionaly take my Tetrarch/L60 for a joyride... I have bad stats in both and it's embarassing.

Honestly thought this was over, when they took the T18 and made it a tier III arty, but people'll always find something to abuse and I don't blame them, but this tank is pretty OP.

The low-pen autocannons on some tanks can't even pen it from the front and sometimes even from the side, unless they load gold (which the M2s often spam).

The reload time on them is really fast too, even for lowtiers, just in my opinion.

 

Or maybe i'm just bad! :P

But you don't want this to get as bad as with the T18 and I think low tiers should also be catered to, or else the new players'll give-up.



CaptainThunderWalker #2 Posted 23 October 2017 - 06:38 PM

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The T-45 gift tank is pretty disgusting too for clubbing duties.

japtank #3 Posted 23 October 2017 - 08:48 PM

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Is it worse than facing a Maus in an M6?

 

Because it sure didn't make me leave the game :izmena:



Derethim #4 Posted 23 October 2017 - 08:51 PM

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View Postjaptank, on 23 October 2017 - 08:48 PM, said:

Is it worse than facing a Maus in an M6?

 

Because it sure didn't make me leave the game :izmena:

 

Assuming this wasn't in the old mm, how the hell did you get a Maus in an M6?

View PostCaptainThunderWalker, on 23 October 2017 - 06:38 PM, said:

The T-45 gift tank is pretty disgusting too for clubbing duties.

 

Yup, it has solid armor angles and can even sidescrape.

But for example, the Hotchkiss is extremely well armoured for it's tier and newbies get ripped by it, but it isn't OP. The only thing op about it is the armor, which newbies can't figure out how to pen.



PointZero #5 Posted 23 October 2017 - 09:16 PM

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T18 had best armor of the tier, good mobility and a 75mm Howitzer with a 5s reload that could oneshot most equal tiers with ease. I'd say the M2 doesn't even come close.



Dr_Oolen #6 Posted 23 October 2017 - 10:00 PM

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Just gonna leave this here. 

 

Incidentally few weeks ago i decided to see what the most op/broken low tier tanks in the game are, to get those on a reroll i used to get t95e2. Basically i concluded (i ignored t1 and t7-10) that on t6 there actually arent any truly broken/op tanks anymore (that arent premiums - how surprising). But on the t2-5 this is basically the list i came up with, so if anyone wants to do some serious padding/clubbing, go for these tanks (also check the curves for lols). List doesnt include any premium tanks, but many of the listed tanks have prem counterparts that are just as/even more op).

 

t2:

- h35

- m2 light

- su18

(there are more op tanks, but these for some reason stood out to me more than the others)

 

t3:

- su26

- cruiser mk IV

- somua s35

- pz I C

(honorable mention to bison - that arty is so broken at t3 its unbelieavable)

 

t4:

- t40

- type 5 keho

- luchs

 

t5:

- bishop

- t67

- leopard

- kv-1s

 

t6:

(what struck me as interesting is that on t6 arty on average are better at dealing damage than all the other classes, and in general on t6 arty seems to be the op tanks)

 


Edited by Dr_Oolen, 23 October 2017 - 10:07 PM.


Isharial #7 Posted 23 October 2017 - 11:20 PM

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View PostDr_Oolen, on 23 October 2017 - 10:00 PM, said:

 

Just gonna leave this here.

 

Incidentally few weeks ago i decided to see what the most op/broken low tier tanks in the game are, to get those on a reroll i used to get t95e2. Basically i concluded (i ignored t1 and t7-10) that on t6 there actually arent any truly broken/op tanks anymore (that arent premiums - how surprising). But on the t2-5 this is basically the list i came up with, so if anyone wants to do some serious padding/clubbing, go for these tanks (also check the curves for lols). List doesnt include any premium tanks, but many of the listed tanks have prem counterparts that are just as/even more op).

 

t2:

- h35

- m2 light

- su18

(there are more op tanks, but these for some reason stood out to me more than the others)

 

t3:

- su26

- cruiser mk IV

- somua s35

- pz I C

(honorable mention to bison - that arty is so broken at t3 its unbelieavable)

 

t4:

- t40

- type 5 keho

- luchs

 

t5:

- bishop

- t67

- leopard

- kv-1s

 

t6:

(what struck me as interesting is that on t6 arty on average are better at dealing damage than all the other classes, and in general on t6 arty seems to be the op tanks)

 

 

that's surprising about T6 tbh... there are some powerful T6 tanks but I guess the amount of T8 has reduced the number of T6 which has therefore reduced the number of players?

that would fit with the fact that T6 arty are "the op tanks" as they'd be the only ones unaffected by T8 as such?


 

atleast, thats my thinking...



Balc0ra #8 Posted 23 October 2017 - 11:28 PM

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It's been like that for ages, it's the go to tank for the first 300 games for alt accounts to, to get their WN8 up fast since the T18 went away. That or the Pz II 

 

Recently did train a new scout crew for the T71 that came this patch. M2 Meds or even French lights are not an issue when you are in tanks like the T7 CC or T2 Light. It's the M2 Lights. If they don't have less then 5 degree angle on their side armor, my T7 CC can just forget about penning that side. M2 Med can be at 60 degrees and I still pen it. So that was usually the tank that steams rolls me. As they were commonly in platoons, and usually driven by good players.



Version43 #9 Posted 23 October 2017 - 11:31 PM

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I always feel for the Chi Ni - it was crap on the old maps and it's worse now.

 

WG should add some maps for anyone on low tiers with over a 1000 battles. Preferably nice big open ones.



Derethim #10 Posted 23 October 2017 - 11:39 PM

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Surprising to find the T40 in there, I always found it a good HE bait.

The H35 is mostly OP, because it's so well angled and because most newbies don't know how the armor works yet. But the M2 with it's gun, that can finish most T2 tanks in two clips, which is something over 20 seconds is pretty op.

 

The low tiers aren't getting much attention these days. There are way more OP tanks down low, than up high.

View PostVersion43, on 23 October 2017 - 11:31 PM, said:

I always feel for the Chi Ni - it was crap on the old maps and it's worse now.

 

WG should add some maps for anyone on low tiers with over a 1000 battles. Preferably nice big open ones.

 

Like Province? :P


Edited by Derethim, 23 October 2017 - 11:40 PM.


Jumping_Turtle #11 Posted 23 October 2017 - 11:50 PM

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So why did you exclude the premium tanks ? Some of them are the real boss on those tiers. Way more than the few now listed.

_Hakkapeliitta_ #12 Posted 24 October 2017 - 05:03 AM

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i was yesterday in "kittengarden" map  with my T2 ligth i got 9 kills and oposite side was all so one sealclubber with Pz II he all so get 9 kills...me includet :(  and yes i fell littebit dirty...but only littlebit :trollface:


Edited by _Hakkapeliitta_, 24 October 2017 - 05:04 AM.


Henschel_131 #13 Posted 24 October 2017 - 05:54 AM

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M2 Light has great mobility, excellent frontal armor, can clip a lot of equal tier tanks and has a 7 second mag reload just in case the first burst doesn't kill them. 

 

Really kinda disgustingly OP, and you'll see a lot of sealclubbers running around in them on tier 2 racking up silly numbers of kills.

 

Of course, if you feel like sealclubbing the MG sealclubbers there are a few tanks that offer a hard counter. For example the Pz III E on t3 absolutely trashes the Pz I C with it's combination of speed, dpm and MG proof armor, I've had some great fun sealclubbing 2-3 man Pz I C platoons on the hill at Himmelsdorf. The M2 light can also be very good at killing other M2 lights if you fit the normal gun, it doesn't have the dpm or burst damage but but you end up with MG proof frontal armor and a gun that can easily pen other M2 lights.



thestaggy #14 Posted 24 October 2017 - 06:50 AM

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What about the British Stuart I-IV? I played it with a remedial 75% crew with no equipment and thought it was insanely powerful for the few games I played it.

 

I found that I could over-angle the thing to the point of 50/60 degrees and still be immune to Pz IC spam. Against a T2/M2 Light you basically have to give them flat sides for them to pen. On one occasion I sat still while taking care of a French heavylight and machinegun spammers were bouncing on me. hen you get the 55 mm turret and 10-degrees of gun depression which basically forces tanks to shoot you with premium if you use it. I took out a duo-platoon of T2s on Himmelsdorf hill by using the turret and gun depression. They couldn't do sh*t to me.

 

I think with a BIA crew and vents this thing must have serious potential.



CaptainThunderWalker #15 Posted 24 October 2017 - 09:00 AM

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View PostDr_Oolen, on 23 October 2017 - 10:00 PM, said:

 

Just gonna leave this here. 

 

Incidentally few weeks ago i decided to see what the most op/broken low tier tanks in the game are, to get those on a reroll i used to get t95e2. Basically i concluded (i ignored t1 and t7-10) that on t6 there actually arent any truly broken/op tanks anymore (that arent premiums - how surprising). But on the t2-5 this is basically the list i came up with, so if anyone wants to do some serious padding/clubbing, go for these tanks (also check the curves for lols). List doesnt include any premium tanks, but many of the listed tanks have prem counterparts that are just as/even more op).

For some reason I can't find the curves. I know they exist and thought to find them on vbAddict, but...

PointZero #16 Posted 24 October 2017 - 10:15 AM

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View PostCaptainThunderWalker, on 24 October 2017 - 11:00 AM, said:

For some reason I can't find the curves. I know they exist and thought to find them on vbAddict, but...

 

http://wot-news.com/...n/eu/uk/GB14_M2

 

View PostDr_Oolen, on 24 October 2017 - 12:00 AM, said:

t6:

(what struck me as interesting is that on t6 arty on average are better at dealing damage than all the other classes, and in general on t6 arty seems to be the op tanks)

 

They didn't really balance the tier 6 and below arties apart from losing some of the pen and AP/HEAT shells. Their damage is still high for the tier and penetration is enough to cause some serious trouble to lower tier opponents. Similar to other arties they also gave them a better RoF, accuracy, aimtime and splash radius so anything they can't seriously criple they are ready to hammer down multiple times.

 

The French line is simply hilarious if you look at how little the pen and dmg change

https://tanks.gg/com...5-55~b-c-155-58

 

M44 has the same pen as M12, Hummel has the same pen&dmg as GW. Panther, Amx 13 F3 has 1mm less pen but the same dmg as Lorr. 155 50, the soviet line is the only one where the tier 7 has argueably better gun than what the tier 6 one is using. When they get to shoot tier IV's it's not really balanced is it?

 

My favorite combo has to be Lefe, M44 and Hummel on the enemy team. 7.79s and lefe is reloaded, 16.67s M44 is reloaded and lefe is ready to go again, 26.05s Hummel is reloaded and lefe is ready to go again. In a 1min brawl on one of the key areas they are able to put 12 shots in the area with a potential dmg of 5 880. 



hajoittaja #17 Posted 24 October 2017 - 10:19 AM

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How about Cruiser II with 370 alpha at tier 3? It can one-shoot anything it meets (even Matilda) and has enough armor so block most of low pen autoloader guns when angled. It's my go-to stress relief tank.

Dr_Oolen #18 Posted 24 October 2017 - 10:53 AM

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View PostJumping_Turtle, on 23 October 2017 - 11:50 PM, said:

So why did you exclude the premium tanks ? Some of them are the real boss on those tiers. Way more than the few now listed.

 

Because i wanted to get those broken tonks on that 100% f2p account and obviously one cant simply get prem tonks without money/gold. + many of those low tier broken prems arent really even being sold so obviously for my purpose there was no point in looking at premiums.
 

View PostPointZero, on 24 October 2017 - 10:15 AM, said:

They didn't really balance the tier 6 and below arties apart from losing some of the pen and AP/HEAT shells. Their damage is still high for the tier and penetration is enough to cause some serious trouble to lower tier opponents. Similar to other arties they also gave them a better RoF, accuracy, aimtime and splash radius so anything they can't seriously criple they are ready to hammer down multiple times.

If i remember right i actually wrote feedback regarding the lack of balance in mid/low tier arty when it was tested on sandbox that the damage is still over the top in mid/low tiers (well, back then i even claimed that the top tier artys are/will turn out to be still too annoying/good and that their damage/splash is still too high and that it should be nerfed by another 10-15%... several patches later id say my estimate was pretty much spot on, given how theres once again 2-3 cancers in every single game and the games are just as unplayable due to them as before the changes). But meanwhile i forgot it was a thing until i went through stats of these low tiers and saw that up to t6 arty is op/broken as hell in general.

 

Anyway, i really suggest people to play bison at t3, sure has only 12 shells total, but t3 arty with 6m splash, 400 alpha and 35 pen, with stun and insane shell arc... :D

 

just look at the stats...

https://tanks.gg/tan...1&c=-1.-1.9&k=0


 

Derethim #19 Posted 24 October 2017 - 11:00 AM

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View Posthajoittaja, on 24 October 2017 - 10:19 AM, said:

How about Cruiser II with 370 alpha at tier 3? It can one-shoot anything it meets (even Matilda) and has enough armor so block most of low pen autoloader guns when angled. It's my go-to stress relief tank.

 

I'd like to see a Cruiser II one-shot a Matilda.

It's basically a KV-2 at tier III, but the planets'd have to line up for it to one-shot a Matty.

View Postthestaggy, on 24 October 2017 - 06:50 AM, said:

What about the British Stuart I-IV? I played it with a remedial 75% crew with no equipment and thought it was insanely powerful for the few games I played it.

 

I found that I could over-angle the thing to the point of 50/60 degrees and still be immune to Pz IC spam. Against a T2/M2 Light you basically have to give them flat sides for them to pen. On one occasion I sat still while taking care of a French heavylight and machinegun spammers were bouncing on me. hen you get the 55 mm turret and 10-degrees of gun depression which basically forces tanks to shoot you with premium if you use it. I took out a duo-platoon of T2s on Himmelsdorf hill by using the turret and gun depression. They couldn't do sh*t to me.

 

I think with a BIA crew and vents this thing must have serious potential.

 

It's balanced in the same way all the other Stuart copies on it's tier are. So it can also be pretty Oh-pee.

CaptainThunderWalker #20 Posted 24 October 2017 - 11:18 AM

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View PostPointZero, on 24 October 2017 - 10:15 AM, said:

 

http://wot-news.com/...n/eu/uk/GB14_M2

 

 

They didn't really balance the tier 6 and below arties apart from losing some of the pen and AP/HEAT shells. Their damage is still high for the tier and penetration is enough to cause some serious trouble to lower tier opponents. Similar to other arties they also gave them a better RoF, accuracy, aimtime and splash radius so anything they can't seriously criple they are ready to hammer down multiple times.

 

The French line is simply hilarious if you look at how little the pen and dmg change

https://tanks.gg/com...5-55~b-c-155-58

 

M44 has the same pen as M12, Hummel has the same pen&dmg as GW. Panther, Amx 13 F3 has 1mm less pen but the same dmg as Lorr. 155 50, the soviet line is the only one where the tier 7 has argueably better gun than what the tier 6 one is using. When they get to shoot tier IV's it's not really balanced is it?

 

My favorite combo has to be Lefe, M44 and Hummel on the enemy team. 7.79s and lefe is reloaded, 16.67s M44 is reloaded and lefe is ready to go again, 26.05s Hummel is reloaded and lefe is ready to go again. In a 1min brawl on one of the key areas they are able to put 12 shots in the area with a potential dmg of 5 880. 

 

Thanks.

 

Small point of order: The G.W Panther is a massive improvement over the Hummel. The pseudo-turret and gunhandling differences are just too major to ignore especially if a battle isn't locked down. Sure the pen and damage stay the same, but the handling differences (not to mention faster reload, which is around 20 seconds) give the G.W Panther a much better gun overall.

 

Edit: Yeah, the Cruiser II isn't quite balanced either.

 

I can also confirm that it can one-shot a Matilda, though that only happened when the opposing team let you somehow take a hill (on Himmelsdorf or Mines) uncontested and you get a shot into its engine deck. It's more likely you two-shot it with HEAT, but with bad RNG you don't pen HEAT at all, so I prefer to fire HE at a Matilda.

HEAT is for Pz II Js and Pz B2 740s. The former will be one-shot more than half the time, which is hilarious and always very satisfying.

Talking about those, I did once one-shot a Pz B2 740 with HEAT too, penning it in the side and setting it on fire for the remaining 130-ish damage.


Edited by CaptainThunderWalker, 24 October 2017 - 11:33 AM.






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