Jump to content


The ramming poll


  • This topic is locked This topic is locked
16 replies to this topic

serpenta #1 Posted 12 November 2011 - 04:28 PM

    Staff Sergeant

  • Player
  • 14647 battles
  • 440
  • [HB] HB
  • Member since:
    09-19-2011
The current poll is querring for players opinion on "friendly ramming". I didn't think of it earlier but i choose the option that it should be turned off (and maybe non-splash friedly fire too). Why? Because the automatic teamkiller punishment system is working wrong as hell and (this is not an argument solely) the support staff won't make any arbitration in disputable cases. E.g. I'm going with my medium tank straight ahead at fs, cause I stayed back of force to deal with enemy scout. Suddenly I got 1/4 of my hp's wanished and my right track in red. I thought of arty but it turned out that it was one of my own scouts that runned from the hill straight into my side. I was so suprised that even don't slated him. But after the battle it turned out that I have to pay (sic!!!) 1700cr for dealing damage to my teammate. So payment + my own repair cost was circa 4000cr. I could write to support (do I?) but what would they told me? That the auto tk sys is exactly the tool to deal with such cases.

So in the end I have to sacrifice my own need for detailing and simulation to satisfy my need for justice and fair play, and vote against friendly ram dmg. This is frustrating.

Cpl_Hicks #2 Posted 12 November 2011 - 05:06 PM

    Staff Sergeant

  • Player
  • 26656 battles
  • 365
  • Member since:
    06-12-2011
I voted "Against!" too. The problem with ramming is, that the system does not recognize whose fault it is and only calculates how much damage the involved tanks suffer based on their weight and speed of impact. As a result, a lighter tank can ram a friendly heavy on purpose and sustain heavy damage while the heavy tank can go on with little/no damage. The innocent heavy driver then has to pay a (large) fine for damages he supposedly inflicted to the teammember, while the other player will only pay a small/no fine for the little damage he caused to the heavy tank.

As long as the ramming system is unable to identify the guilty party*, collisions between friendly tanks should not cause damage. Especially, because all teamdamage is logged and punished by an automated system that does not care whose fault it was or who started it.
At the moment it is, at least, imaginable that an innocent player is repeatedly rammed by other players (with lighter tanks) and then gets branded (blue name) and punished as teamkiller.

* this is a diffuclt, perhaps even practically unsolvable, problem

Hanki #3 Posted 12 November 2011 - 08:11 PM

    Corporal

  • Beta Tester
  • 7678 battles
  • 140
  • Member since:
    09-10-2010
I think the whole team damage thing should be different.
The ramming damage should be disabled and the friendly fire damage should be reflected onto the shooter.

kohmelo #4 Posted 12 November 2011 - 11:53 PM

    Lance-corporal

  • Player
  • 6672 battles
  • 60
  • [-P4-] -P4-
  • Member since:
    08-03-2011

View PostHanki, on 12 November 2011 - 08:11 PM, said:

...and the friendly fire damage should be reflected onto the shooter.

And that would be really funny when those idiotic and suicidal A-20/Leopard/PZ38 drivers drive on front of your turret barrel the moment you shoot... It even more agonizing when that happens with derp gun and you take damage of you own splash...

Marlekin #5 Posted 13 November 2011 - 03:29 AM

    Brigadier

  • Beta Tester
  • 33483 battles
  • 4,123
  • Member since:
    11-10-2010
Are you guys suggesting that getting hit with a 30 tons or heavier machine should not cause something of an impact? I dont think that friendly ramming damage is such a main issue that it warrants such a drastic step. Whats next, no friendly fire? What do you think the punishment system is for? Its for making you AWARE, that the machines used in this game are just big mean killing machines and will just as easily inflict serious harm on a teammates as an enemy.

You are a TANK. Youre supposed to be dangerous!  :angry:

AdmiralHipst3r #6 Posted 13 November 2011 - 05:45 AM

    Second Lieutenant

  • Player
  • 13796 battles
  • 1,344
  • Member since:
    06-26-2011
The point he's making is that right now the punishment system is doing a damn fine job of punishing the victims.  Ergo, it's broken.

mystictda #7 Posted 13 November 2011 - 11:50 AM

    Staff Sergeant

  • Beta Tester
  • 10445 battles
  • 487
  • Member since:
    07-29-2010

View PostMarlekin, on 13 November 2011 - 03:29 AM, said:

Are you guys suggesting that getting hit with a 30 tons or heavier machine should not cause something of an impact? I dont think that friendly ramming damage is such a main issue that it warrants such a drastic step. Whats next, no friendly fire? What do you think the punishment system is for? Its for making you AWARE, that the machines used in this game are just big mean killing machines and will just as easily inflict serious harm on a teammates as an enemy.

You are a TANK. Youre supposed to be dangerous!  :angry:

The problem is that a light tank can ram a heavy on purpose and will get a lot of credits for it from the heavy player although the heavy player did nothing wrong.
And if you imagine then a whole bunch of light tanks ramming a heavy tank on purpose because they don't like him or something, the heavy player could loose a lot of credits. This is just an unfair system and needs to change.
I don't think they should deactivate ramming damage or damage by shooting friendly players. As you said, you should be aware of your heavy beast but still, losing credits for doing nothing wrong is just unfair for the heavy players.

ChilledGear #8 Posted 13 November 2011 - 12:56 PM

    Staff Sergeant

  • Player
  • 11761 battles
  • 325
  • [CMERC] CMERC
  • Member since:
    10-09-2011

View Postkohmelo, on 12 November 2011 - 11:53 PM, said:

And that would be really funny when those idiotic and suicidal A-20/Leopard/PZ38 drivers drive on front of your turret barrel the moment you shoot... It even more agonizing when that happens with derp gun and you take damage of you own splash...

this happened to me yesterday lining a shot with the kv's 107mm then a bt-7 drive's infront of my cannon. Then after apologising and explaining what happened, a su-85 starts shooting me even though im not blue. Then he turned blue after taking 1/4 of my health off and I one shot him. People also need to start realising whats an accident and whats not.

serpenta #9 Posted 13 November 2011 - 06:20 PM

    Staff Sergeant

  • Player
  • 14647 battles
  • 440
  • [HB] HB
  • Member since:
    09-19-2011

Quote

The point he's making is that right now the punishment system is doing a damn fine job of punishing the victims. Ergo, it's broken.

My point exactly. And until WG will make the auto tk sys working properly (maybe never) i think that friendly damaging should be turned off, aside from splash dmg, as it would be far to easy to kill enemy heavy, without possibility of getting splash dmg from own artillery - but with 24h arty-ban for friendly kill. Abusement or rather exploitement of buggy auto tk sys for cr farming is one thing but more annoing are ppl that are just don't looking around or even in the own movement direction (sic!) and current system is not making them learn as they are not getting any kind of punishment. And as they're most likely 12 yo's with temper that are not reading forum the community has very limited influence on them. So imo the only way is to fisically isolate them in terms of game mechanics.

Marlekin #10 Posted 13 November 2011 - 06:39 PM

    Brigadier

  • Beta Tester
  • 33483 battles
  • 4,123
  • Member since:
    11-10-2010
I still cant agree that WG should commit considerable recourses to deal with the crap some players are pulling online.

With the few odd games where you do meet a player that intenionally abuses the system at expense of teammates, its still not a issue that happends so often to be such a huge bother. I'd rahter see WG working on finetuning the matchmaker and bringing in the French tanks and keep the punishment system at a low spot in the priority list.

Where it should be imo.

Mephisto696 #11 Posted 13 November 2011 - 06:45 PM

    Corporal

  • Beta Tester
  • 29995 battles
  • 126
  • [-FOW-] -FOW-
  • Member since:
    11-07-2010
Well the game is filled with bad tank drivers (not to mention shooters). I mean little scouts not thinking, not using or knowing their turn speed or just not looking in front if them. And than crashing into friendly heavy tanks detraking themselves dealing minimum dmg (sometimes only damaged tracks) while heavyer tank "deals" 20-40% dmg to the little guy. And then you go to garage and over 5k credits sometimes even more if you kill the guy. Some of them do it even on purpose... It's not hard, you go, you scout, arti hits something you get your exp and them nothing to do, you can't dmg anything, okay let's just ram our highest tier tank to get some extra credits... GG. And don't forget that all of that count to your "friendly fire dmg" meaning that you'll become blue easier in the near future. The solution is simple, just make an exception for friendly ramming that it's fault of a tank that at the moment had more speed. Maus surely won't just block a scout that is driving 70kmh.

AdmiralHipst3r #12 Posted 13 November 2011 - 09:37 PM

    Second Lieutenant

  • Player
  • 13796 battles
  • 1,344
  • Member since:
    06-26-2011
The TK system is there to deal with people intentionally griefing or just being reckless to other players.  It successfully deals with the TKers, who represent the absolute smallest minority.  It completely fails to deal with the guys who block friendlies because they know exactly how to circumvent punishment from the system - passively piss someone off to the point where THEY shoot at THEM, subverting the system to punish the victims for them.  The overwhelming majority of times that the system is triggered is in situations where the system either shouldn't be activated or when it punishes exactly the wrong person - when idiots drive into heavier team members and it's the victim who gets punished by the TK system for doing precisely nothing wrong.

It's not working as intended.  Even in those rare situations when it works exactly as intended the victims compensation doesn't even remotely cover his repair expenses.  It's broken and it's being abused by griefers.

Otrorto #13 Posted 13 November 2011 - 10:14 PM

    Staff Sergeant

  • Player
  • 7806 battles
  • 361
  • Member since:
    10-31-2011
I think that friendly ram damage its ok, like someone else said here, these are destruction machines :)

I know the poll u are speking, i voted to keep it, as long as soon a fast report system will be introduced in the battles, so if u have some troubles like the ones people said, u just report it and i think that all will be ok  :Smile_great:

serpenta #14 Posted 13 November 2011 - 11:01 PM

    Staff Sergeant

  • Player
  • 14647 battles
  • 440
  • [HB] HB
  • Member since:
    09-19-2011

View PostOtrorto, on 13 November 2011 - 10:14 PM, said:

I think that friendly ram damage its ok, like someone else said here, these are destruction machines :)

I know the poll u are speking, i voted to keep it, as long as soon a fast report system will be introduced in the battles, so if u have some troubles like the ones people said, u just report it and i think that all will be ok  :Smile_great:

Yes, these are destruction mashines. But tell me this, is it normal for a destruction mashine that it sticks it's gun through another tank, that the end of the gun is behind this tank out in the open and the shot kills the this tank? I don't think so. And to be honest I will yearn more for material guns than friendly ramming or even friendly fire. This is arcade game, so realism arguments should be put aside when we talk about fair play, as I stated in the first post of this thread.

Otrorto #15 Posted 14 November 2011 - 12:08 AM

    Staff Sergeant

  • Player
  • 7806 battles
  • 361
  • Member since:
    10-31-2011

View Postserpenta, on 13 November 2011 - 11:01 PM, said:

Yes, these are destruction mashines. But tell me this, is it normal for a destruction mashine that it sticks it's gun through another tank, that the end of the gun is behind this tank out in the open and the shot kills the this tank? I don't think so. And to be honest I will yearn more for material guns than friendly ramming or even friendly fire. This is arcade game, so realism arguments should be put aside when we talk about fair play, as I stated in the first post of this thread.

Im not speaking of realism, but of game mechanics, that, even being annoying, give the game some extra... casue, what will people ask next? That dead players tanks will be removed? Its a point in the same direction but i think that all people will vote "No", cause they find it usefull and the other thing makes then think twice b4 ram a dude near an ally.

As i said, i hope that fast report system will solve troubles, and i like that friendly ram is allowed, and friendly fire, and some other things that people, and even me, watch as annoying, come on, its part of the game rules, u cant change the rules of football cause u want to get a penalty, i like this game as is it now, and what i want the developers to do is ADD NEW SCENARIOS like crazy, cuase tat will really make a difference and this game better http://forum.worldof...le_honoring.gif



Homer_J #16 Posted 14 November 2011 - 12:26 AM

    Field Marshal

  • Beta Tester
  • 32787 battles
  • 35,616
  • [WJDE] WJDE
  • Member since:
    09-03-2010

View Postmystictda, on 13 November 2011 - 11:50 AM, said:

The problem is that a light tank can ram a heavy on purpose and will get a lot of credits for it

No they can't.

There is no compensation unless they are completely destroyed, and in those rare cases the compensation does not cover the repair bill.

serpenta #17 Posted 14 November 2011 - 04:07 AM

    Staff Sergeant

  • Player
  • 14647 battles
  • 440
  • [HB] HB
  • Member since:
    09-19-2011

View PostOtrorto, on 14 November 2011 - 12:08 AM, said:

Im not speaking of realism, but of game mechanics, that, even being annoying, give the game some extra... casue, what will people ask next? That dead players tanks will be removed? Its a point in the same direction but i think that all people will vote "No", cause they find it usefull and the other thing makes then think twice b4 ram a dude near an ally.

As i said, i hope that fast report system will solve troubles, and i like that friendly ram is allowed, and friendly fire, and some other things that people, and even me, watch as annoying, come on, its part of the game rules, u cant change the rules of football cause u want to get a penalty, i like this game as is it now, and what i want the developers to do is ADD NEW SCENARIOS like crazy, cuase tat will really make a difference and this game better http://forum.worldof...le_honoring.gif

Exactly, friendly ramming and friendly fire makes you stay at alert, be cautious, halt and think. Problem are players that don't think at all, just press 'w' aim some random point and fire with circle outside of screen. When you see manouvering ally in hug with enemy you sometimes must take a risk and fire with prop. of damaging yours own i order to save his gun for the team (read this 'till end). But some players doesn't take a risk, doesn't make a pro/against list before shooting. And they're spoiling the gameplay with such behaviour. I do agree that without friendly dmg this game would be poorer but I see it as necessary evil.

If this feature of the game will endure, maybe players choose to leave it as it is, I'll share your hope regarding effectiveness of fast report system. I fear only that WG will dismiss any such report as irrelevant due to auto tk sys.

P.S. Bad example, as football (i.e. soccer) rules changes every year ;)

:Smile_honoring:




2 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 2 guests, 0 anonymous users