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AT15 Help Needed

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lord_chipmonk #1 Posted 26 October 2017 - 12:38 AM

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So, I am grinding through the AT15. Currently got about 50 games under my belt, fully upgraded and hating every minute. Seriously, you can check my stats. I have higher average damage in the pre-buff JPz IV than this thing. Let that thought sink in for a moment. In short, I'm looking for any advice regarding how to make this damned tank work. I have played and like the AT15A, played and didn't like (but still did ok in) the AT7. I've tried using it as an assualt gun, sniper, anything I can think of but nothing yields any even vaguely consistent results. So, below are a batch of games. Not hand selected or anything (and probably terrible though not selected to be so). I'm not a complete muppet and I can recognise some of the mistakes (mainly to do with how slow this tank is and how bad the camo is for example) but any hints would be much appreciated. 

 

Cheers in advance!

 

http://wotreplays.eu..._chipmonk-at_15

http://wotreplays.eu..._chipmonk-at_15

http://wotreplays.eu...e/3906103#stats

http://wotreplays.eu..._chipmonk-at_15

http://wotreplays.eu...e/3906108#stats

http://wotreplays.eu..._chipmonk-at_15

http://wotreplays.eu..._chipmonk-at_15

http://wotreplays.eu..._chipmonk-at_15

http://wotreplays.eu...e/3906112#stats



_EXODUZ_ #2 Posted 26 October 2017 - 12:50 AM

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You're better off sending a message in-game to one of these people. That #1 guy has 2k+ DPG in his AT15. Ask for some replays, etc.

 



lord_chipmonk #3 Posted 26 October 2017 - 12:51 AM

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Blimey, that's impressive. 

Aikl #4 Posted 26 October 2017 - 01:32 AM

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To start with: AT15 is a powercrept, no-good, unflexible POS totally unsuited for the current meta and in the worst tier MM-wise. That's bad. The good thing that you are running personal reserves. I'd consider drinking too.

Generally I think the AT-line is sort of workable at distance. You can't trade shots, nor do you have any real armor when people are close. At range you have the advantage in theory. Alternatively you need to find positions to exploit both gun depression and traverse to maximise armor. Look at tanks.gg to get an idea: https://tanks.gg/tan...5/model?vm=live

 

Lord, have mercy.

Spoiler

 

After watching these replays, there is one piece of advice that sadly doesn't help with grinding the AT15 (nor is it suitable for the forums). Well, it doesn't really solve anything other than not being able to play AT15 (or tanks) at all anymore.

 

By the end of the AT15 grind you've redefined pain. Everything else will become a little bit better. You might even become somewhat religious. Maybe you've endured enough to pay for the sins of mankind (at least for a few hours, that's something).

Try not to walk towards the light. Stay at range, avoid heavy tanks. Medium tanks are the best targets; you don't have the penetration to engage heavy tanks frontally, nor the damage per shot to trade shots with the heavies. If you can't go anywhere, camp in the back. Don't try to be useful. The other team gets a TD too; it's very likely that thing isn't going out in the field to win the game either. Defending a flank from a strong position can be the most useful trick; it'll buy your headless team a chance - provided they manage to win the other flank. If they do, and you don't get to shoot stuff, you're likely to win. Winning without any damage at least nets you some XP.


Edited by Aikl, 26 October 2017 - 10:01 AM.


_EXODUZ_ #5 Posted 26 October 2017 - 02:01 AM

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I also remember seeing good AT15 players who jink back and fourth when reloading, they hide MG turret behind corners when they can. If you can't, angle so your left front corner is towards the enemy, with the right corner further back to make the MG turret harder to hit.

lord_chipmonk #6 Posted 26 October 2017 - 10:25 AM

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View PostAikl, on 26 October 2017 - 01:32 AM, said:

To start with: AT15 is a powercrept, no-good, unflexible POS totally unsuited for the current meta and in the worst tier MM-wise. That's bad. The good thing that you are running personal reserves. I'd consider drinking too.

 

I had some wine that night. Was also tired too, which probably didn't help. :P

Generally I think the AT-line is sort of workable at distance. You can't trade shots, nor do you have any real armor when people are close. At range you have the advantage in theory. Alternatively you need to find positions to exploit both gun depression and traverse to maximise armor. Look at tanks.gg to get an idea: https://tanks.gg/tan...5/model?vm=live

 

I have tried that (and this is my standard go-to tactic in the AT15A), but instead found people just penning every piece of my armour anyway. I mean even tier 8 heavies have basically a 50:50 chance to pen your tickest armour firing AP. 

 

Lord, have mercy.

Spoiler

 

After watching these replays, there is one piece of advice that sadly doesn't help with grinding the AT15 (nor is it suitable for the forums). 

 

By the end of the AT15 grind you've redefined pain. Everything else will become a little bit better. You might even become somewhat religious. Try not to walk towards the light. Well, stay at range, avoid heavy tanks. Medium tanks are the best targets; you don't have the penetration to engage heavy tanks frontally, nor the damage per shot to trade shots with the heavies. If you can't go anywhere, camp in the back. Don't try to be useful. The other team gets a TD too; it's very likely that thing isn't going out in the field to win the game either. Defending a flank from a strong position can be the most useful trick; it'll buy your headless team a chance - provided they manage to win the other flank.

 

Cheers!

 

View Post_EXODUZ_, on 26 October 2017 - 02:01 AM, said:

I also remember seeing good AT15 players who jink back and fourth when reloading, they hide MG turret behind corners when they can. If you can't, angle so your left front corner is towards the enemy, with the right corner further back to make the MG turret harder to hit.

 

Yeah, again the sort of stuff I have been trying, but the thing is just so slow that you don't throw the enemies aim off enough to make them miss. Thanks though. :)



KillingJoker #7 Posted 26 October 2017 - 10:44 AM

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With 10 degrees of gun depression you can also try to hide the top in terrain slopes... and that will increase also the frontal armor due to angling 

 

 



chiggy #8 Posted 26 October 2017 - 10:46 AM

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Its an old Wargaming design that's become pretty worthless with power creep​ but here goes .....

 

1. Play aggressive in Tier 8 and passive in Tier 10. Everything in tier 9 and 10 can pen your armour anywhere. Play aggressive and you will die quickly in high tiers. Most of your games will be Tier 10 with this new match maker. By "passive" I mean the long range TD game.

​2. Always try to hide your largest cupola. Everyone in the game knows this weak spot. You can do this by shooting from right hand corners and by going hull down, tilting your tank so you can use that awesome 10 value gun depression.

​3. Always angle your tank when shooting at anything......some people in this game don't shoot gold ( WOW! ) so there may be a small chance they wont pen.

​4. When you are against teams with lots of lights and mediums you are going to need to create some distance between them and you. If they get close to your sides or rear, you will be dead. Play long range. If a medium tries to bum rush you, zoom in right away, aim for the tracks and keep shooting the tracks until they are broken and cannot be repaired. Then proceed to spam shot that medium to death.

​5. Stay arty safe, moving forward between hard cover.

​6. You have high DPM, use it. Maximise the rate of fire with rammers and vents.

​7. Try and position yourself on the map where you know there will be enemies. If you don't its pointless you being in that game, you are too slow to make adjustments to enemies tactics.

​I know you will find this useful, more so than the drongos who posted above. Peace out.



.



Aikl #9 Posted 26 October 2017 - 10:47 AM

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Come to think about it, try running either binos and/or a camo net. Yes, it sounds extremely dumb, but there's some reasoning behind it:

 

Spotting nets you more XP and makes you a tad more useful as bottom-tier. Alternatively you can park in a bush and go do the dishes if you get a T10 game.

Camo nets are the epitome of passiveness - and if you ask me it's a bad idea to not min-max the AT15 with it. Seriously, though, the camo bonus TDs get from the net is actually pretty significant. 15% stationary, and when firing a ~3,5% flat boost (on this tank). You also have a wide gun arc, which is helpful when vision gaming with passive equipment.

 

Vents and GLD are not that important when you have 1,63s aimtime already with a simple 100% crew. Vents help mobility, but it's not like it earns you the ability to counter a medium tank circling you anyway. The boost vents give to DPM is not that huge, and that camo net might make enable you to get an extra shot off before you get spotted.

 

The gain in passive ability far outweighs the gains in active ability - considering how often you're likely to use the former.

 

Oh, and if I remember correctly, the AT15 has the loader in that cupola, right? Not sure how often he dies, but a large med kit might come in handy. Expensive as balls, but you should have a few lying around anyway. Might as well use them on this thing.


Edited by Aikl, 26 October 2017 - 10:53 AM.


tajj7 #10 Posted 26 October 2017 - 11:04 AM

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I'm sorry to say the Tortoise is not better.

 

The AT tanks, especially once you get to tier 8 plus where people will reliably shoot their weakpoints (lower tiers there are enough terrible players these tanks can bully) are currently suffering from having pretty much all the worst attributes for the current meta.

 

No turret.

Low alpha.

No speed.

Huge weakspots that negate their armour. 

 

It's a terrible combo of factors, very few tanks have that combo right now. 

 

Basically slow tanks with no turret need insane armour to be viable (T95, E3 etc.) or at least have good alpha (Jagdtiger, Chinese high tier TDs, Deathstar etc.) so have a fear factor or have turrets + insane armour (Maus, Type 5). 

 

Tanks that have low alpha and have high DPM need good mobility, gun handling and a turret to be viable (most tier 9 and 10 meds), plus some of these have good turret armour (Fatton, Rasha meds etc.) or insane stealth (Swedish TDs) 

 

Aside the gun handling the AT tanks have none of that, they have ok armour with horribly obvious and easy to hit weakspots, they have no scary alpha and they have no turrets. They also have average to bad camo. 

 

Best advice IMO is to free XP them as much as you. 



chiggy #11 Posted 26 October 2017 - 11:12 AM

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In early December the Death Star will be gone......replaced by a super tortoise....that's more of the same old crap your experiencing playing the AT 15. 

​My advice.....don't give up. Your WR will go to crap.....but you can boost that any time you like by playing Russian Mediums. You can only get the Death Star this one time.
 

Aikl #12 Posted 26 October 2017 - 11:14 AM

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View Posttajj7, on 26 October 2017 - 10:04 AM, said:

(...)

Best advice IMO is to free XP them as much as you. 

 

...which is ultimately why drinking is a good idea; it might make him hesitate less. Or do it accidentally. Heh.



Ziurawka #13 Posted 26 October 2017 - 11:43 AM

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The only AT tanks that make any sense right now are the AT-2 when it faces tier V and AT-15A.

The latter is a tier lower with premium matchmaking and the same armor - it is arguably viable in the current meta. 

 

Tier IX and tier X tanks will grind the AT-15 to dust. It's a tank designed back in the day when WG could be bothered to introduce frontal weakspots.

I'd free XP it.



lord_chipmonk #14 Posted 26 October 2017 - 01:02 PM

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So, win rate is now up to 53% (yay) but average damage is still below 1k (boo). I just have to many games with 0 or very low damage as I can't keep up with the fight, be it a win or a loss. Ah well. Thought I would respond to people's comments with my experience thus far as you've taken the time to write them. Oh, also, had my best game so far. 2nd class mastery, oh yeah...

 

http://wotreplays.eu...e/3906456#stats

 

View PostKillingJoker, on 26 October 2017 - 10:44 AM, said:

With 10 degrees of gun depression you can also try to hide the top in terrain slopes... and that will increase also the frontal armor due to angling 

 

Sounds good in theory, but in practice doesn't work too well. It does manage to increase the armour of the section directly below the gun, which is nice, but if you're hull down you won't expose that bit anyway. As for the rest of the armour, it struggles to get over ~230mm at its strongest (ignoring the gun mantlet for now). The bits of the gun mantlet that were strong are still strong and the bits that were weak are still laughably weak. Can't completely hide the weak on top spot either as it is huge. If enemy knows you're coming, they can shoot you long before you can shoot them. Better to just find a different engagement. Well, would be better without the 20km/h top speed anyway. 

 

View Postchiggy, on 26 October 2017 - 10:46 AM, said:

Its an old Wargaming design that's become pretty worthless with power creep​ but here goes .....

 

Can't really argue there. 

 

1. Play aggressive in Tier 8 and passive in Tier 10. Everything in tier 9 and 10 can pen your armour anywhere. Play aggressive and you will die quickly in high tiers. Most of your games will be Tier 10 with this new match maker. By "passive" I mean the long range TD game.

 

Yeah, this does seem to be the way forward. 

​2. Always try to hide your largest cupola. Everyone in the game knows this weak spot. You can do this by shooting from right hand corners and by going hull down, tilting your tank so you can use that awesome 10 value gun depression.

 

Yes, however see comments above re gun depression. Also problem is that other sections of armour aren't actually that strong. Most guns you face can just punch straight through your armour even without worrying about weak spots. 

​3. Always angle your tank when shooting at anything......some people in this game don't shoot gold ( WOW! ) so there may be a small chance they wont

pen.

 

Always do. 


​4. When you are against teams with lots of lights and mediums you are going to need to create some distance between them and you. If they get close to your sides or rear, you will be dead. Play long range. If a medium tries to bum rush you, zoom in right away, aim for the tracks and keep shooting the tracks until they are broken and cannot be repaired. Then proceed to spam shot that medium to death.

 

Yep.

​5. Stay arty safe, moving forward between hard cover.

 

Yes, though worth noting that this thing is so slow that moving between pieces of cover is often not an option, you just get permatracked and killed. 

​6. You have high DPM, use it. Maximise the rate of fire with rammers and vents.

 

Easier said than done. Most people aren't actually dumb enough to let you shoot them more than twice. And yes, I use both rammer and vents. 


​7. Try and position yourself on the map where you know there will be enemies. If you don't its pointless you being in that game, you are too slow to make adjustments to enemies tactics.

Yes, but bear in mind the long range comments you made above. I was continually trying to do this in my first 20 or so matches and performed terribly. 

 

Cheers!

 

View PostAikl, on 26 October 2017 - 10:47 AM, said:

Come to think about it, try running either binos and/or a camo net. Yes, it sounds extremely dumb, but there's some reasoning behind it:

 

Spotting nets you more XP and makes you a tad more useful as bottom-tier. Alternatively you can park in a bush and go do the dishes if you get a T10 game.

Camo nets are the epitome of passiveness - and if you ask me it's a bad idea to not min-max the AT15 with it. Seriously, though, the camo bonus TDs get from the net is actually pretty significant. 15% stationary, and when firing a ~3,5% flat boost (on this tank). You also have a wide gun arc, which is helpful when vision gaming with passive equipment.

 

Vents and GLD are not that important when you have 1,63s aimtime already with a simple 100% crew. Vents help mobility, but it's not like it earns you the ability to counter a medium tank circling you anyway. The boost vents give to DPM is not that huge, and that camo net might make enable you to get an extra shot off before you get spotted.

 

The gain in passive ability far outweighs the gains in active ability - considering how often you're likely to use the former.

 

Oh, and if I remember correctly, the AT15 has the loader in that cupola, right? Not sure how often he dies, but a large med kit might come in handy. Expensive as balls, but you should have a few lying around anyway. Might as well use them on this thing.

 

Not sure about camo net. The camo on the AT15 is pretty poor and so an extra % on top of that would, I imagine, still not be great. Also, most of the times I am spotted is when I am trying to get into a position. As for the binos, I did actually start out with them. Problem is in order to stay relevant you have to keep moving or your terrible speed renders you out of the game. I've been having more success with optics. 

 

View Posttajj7, on 26 October 2017 - 11:04 AM, said:

I'm sorry to say the Tortoise is not better.

 

The AT tanks, especially once you get to tier 8 plus where people will reliably shoot their weakpoints (lower tiers there are enough terrible players these tanks can bully) are currently suffering from having pretty much all the worst attributes for the current meta.

 

No turret.

Low alpha.

No speed.

Huge weakspots that negate their armour. 

 

It's a terrible combo of factors, very few tanks have that combo right now. 

 

Basically slow tanks with no turret need insane armour to be viable (T95, E3 etc.) or at least have good alpha (Jagdtiger, Chinese high tier TDs, Deathstar etc.) so have a fear factor or have turrets + insane armour (Maus, Type 5). 

 

Tanks that have low alpha and have high DPM need good mobility, gun handling and a turret to be viable (most tier 9 and 10 meds), plus some of these have good turret armour (Fatton, Rasha meds etc.) or insane stealth (Swedish TDs) 

 

Aside the gun handling the AT tanks have none of that, they have ok armour with horribly obvious and easy to hit weakspots, they have no scary alpha and they have no turrets. They also have average to bad camo. 

 

Best advice IMO is to free XP them as much as you. 

 

I was afraid you were gonna say that. Took a cursory glance at the Torty stats and it does look like more of the same. :mellow:

 

View Postchiggy, on 26 October 2017 - 11:12 AM, said:

In early December the Death Star will be gone......replaced by a super tortoise....that's more of the same old crap your experiencing playing the AT 15. 

 

When I looked at it, it seemed that the Badger (Death Star replacement) would have a greater emphasis on playing hull down, but actually having some naddy armour if you do. <Finger's crossed>

 

View PostZiurawka, on 26 October 2017 - 11:43 AM, said:

"The only AT tanks that make any sense right now are the AT-2 when it faces tier V and AT-15A.

The latter is a tier lower with premium matchmaking and the same armor - it is arguably viable in the current meta."

 

Urgh, forum formatting has gone balls up. Just wanted to mention that contrary to popular belief, the AT15 and AT15A do not have the same armour profile. The AT15A (yes, the tier 7 with limited MM) actually has better armour. Don't believe me? Check it out for yourself.

 

AT15: https://tanks.gg/tank/at-15/model

AT15A: https://tanks.gg/tank/at-15a/model


Edited by lord_chipmonk, 26 October 2017 - 01:06 PM.


unrealname #15 Posted 26 October 2017 - 01:08 PM

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free xp that pos ;) 

Aikl #16 Posted 26 October 2017 - 01:10 PM

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View Postlord_chipmonk, on 26 October 2017 - 12:02 PM, said:

(...)

 

Not sure about camo net. The camo on the AT15 is pretty poor and so an extra % on top of that would, I imagine, still not be great. Also, most of the times I am spotted is when I am trying to get into a position. As for the binos, I did actually start out with them. Problem is in order to stay relevant you have to keep moving or your terrible speed renders you out of the game. I've been having more success with optics. 

(...)

 

 

The "funny thing" about a camo net is that the bonus is flat, as opposed to the skill that improves camo out of the base value. You're probably right that optics are a better choice, particularly if your crew is quite good.  I'm mostly drawing from my experience with the JT88 - where playing like an idiot worked surprisingly well, even if I wanted to stab myself in the face.

 

Oh, and you broke the forum by quoting too many posts. The editor sucks bigtime.



lord_chipmonk #17 Posted 26 October 2017 - 01:10 PM

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View PostBond90, on 26 October 2017 - 01:08 PM, said:

free xp that pos ;) 

 

Alas, I'm not made of money. I also have a policy of not using free xp to completely skip any tank. 

 

@Aikl: Well, bugger me you're right. I always thought it was a % boost. Learn something new everyday.


Edited by lord_chipmonk, 26 October 2017 - 01:12 PM.


DangerMouse #18 Posted 26 October 2017 - 01:20 PM

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Just finished the Death Star Grind all the way from tier 4, Vent, Rammer and Optics seemed to work best at all  tiers with the AT tanks for me.

 

As others have said when top tier you can bully using your DPM to wreck havoc, when bottom tier which is where you will spend most of your time your armour will not work at all, so find somewhere behind your heavy tanks and try to support with DPM and a lot of dabbing '2'.

 

Bad news is the Tortoise is even worse, every tank will pen your frontally without too much trouble, I would recommend running all your boosters and drinking plenty of beer!

 

DM



uglycousin #19 Posted 26 October 2017 - 01:20 PM

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I am currently mid-grind of the Tortoise. I hate that thing. The gun and the DPM is great ... but other than that is just what Tajj7 said.

 

Will not keep the Tortoise, and only doing this so I can get the DeathStar.



Dr_Oolen #20 Posted 26 October 2017 - 01:50 PM

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Best advice is waiting for next patch when its probably gonna be buffed and made possibly retardproof-armor tonk. Other than that id say the tanks are currently in such a position that there really isnt any way of playing them that would suddenly make you enjoy them or perform noticeably better.

 

I kinda expect WG to buff the alpha on the 32 pounder to 280. Then i expect them to overbuff the armor by making the 228 mm parts +-250 and either simply make the MG 250 aswell (just because reasons) or making it +- 220. And the top speed i imagine will be buffed to 25-30.

 

I then expect them to do +- the same with tortoise, but there i dont expect them to touch the gun at all, and just buff the armor to 270+ with 230 MG or something along those lines.

 

I know this isnt a topic about that, but i just cant help myself and need to propose my own buffs :D

 

- Id buff the top speeds of all the tonks (apart from at2, that i wouldnt touch at all) to 28.

- Then depending on what role WG wants them to have id do various things, but i suspect they want those tds to be low alpha, high dpm, assault tonks, meaning that the guns shouldnt really have better gun handling/accuracy/aimtimes than now.

- on the at8 and at7 id buff the gun arcs from +-7.5 to sides and -5 gun dep and 7.5 gun elevation to +-15/-8/+14 (or make the side angles assymetrical, but still total of 30° arc)

- on AT8 id make the whole right side as strong as the rest of the hull, no change to the cupolas

- on AT7 id remove the middle front MG as a weakspot (making it as strong as rest of the front) but keep the large cupola and the back facing MG as a weakspot the way they are now

- AT15 - buff alpha on 32 pounder to 280 and pen to 235 (would end up having a bit better dpm than 20 pdr, with worse aimtime and accuracy but better pen), remove mantlet weakspot, id not be opposed to buffing the 228 mm parts to 250, remove roof weakspot, change the model of the MG a bit kinda like this 

- tortoise - buff frontal armor so that its frontally 280+ everywhere but keep lfp as it is (228-270 effective, possibly nerf it by 10 mm) and change the MG along the at15 lines


Edited by Dr_Oolen, 26 October 2017 - 01:55 PM.






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