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Bad... Bad win rate in bat chat 25t, but good damage

Batchat Batchat 25t Bad Suck damage skill

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The_Derps #1 Posted 26 October 2017 - 01:39 AM

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I have just recently started to really figure out how to do a lot of damage in games and be better in general, so my stats how there are now are not a good indication of my current skill.

 

I used to average 1200 dm in my batchat, I was always trying to figure out how to play it, and also had sub 50% winrates in it, 44% 41%, but recently iv figured out how to play paper tanks, and have learnt a lot in all tanks and how to do better.

I now average 2.5k to 3k dm in my batchat every game on average, and every 4 or 5 games get a 4k or close to 6k dm game.

I conserve my health early game, snipe get cheeky shots, don't take damage at all, then late game, I unclip my loads, getting the main bulk of my damage, and survive until the end and am normally the last tank on my team.

I average 1st 2d or 3rd on team by damage every game in bat, but I loose 70% of the games I play.

I just had a look through my battle history the last 20 games, and I average top on team or so every game, but only won 5 or 6 out of the 20 played, am I missing something here, isn't doing a lot of damage helping my team?

I have almost marked it too, close to 60% now.

 

One thing that confuses me, that might be relevant here, is that once I was in this game with this brilliant is7 player who had had 3 marked the tank and only had a 44% win rate in it, I never understood how that was possible.

 

 

Ps, right now my win rate in the bat is 43% after a 10 game session where I lost 8 out of the 10 I played.



_EXODUZ_ #2 Posted 26 October 2017 - 01:44 AM

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You need to post some replays if you want a good advice.

Aikl #3 Posted 26 October 2017 - 01:47 AM

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View PostThe_Derps, on 26 October 2017 - 12:39 AM, said:

I conserve my health early game,

 

Yes!

 

View PostThe_Derps, on 26 October 2017 - 12:39 AM, said:

 snipe get cheeky shots,

 

 

Yeeees!

 

View PostThe_Derps, on 26 October 2017 - 12:39 AM, said:

 don't take damage at all

 

 

YEEEEESSSSS!!!111oen

 

 

View PostThe_Derps, on 26 October 2017 - 12:39 AM, said:

(...)then late game, I unclip my loads, getting the main bulk of my damage, and survive until the end and am normally the last tank on my team. (...)

 

 

 

Sorry, kind of just wanted to post that GIF. _EXODUZ_ is correct, though. Replays are nice. Still pretty sure your problem is at the "doing damage late-game" part. The earlier you do (a lot) of damage, the better. No, it's not easy. Batchat's not supposed to be easy to play. Also, what do you do when you reload? Batchats should spot/provide vision and/or find alternative angles of attack to reduce risk and maximise damage potential when you go in to clip something.

 

Three-marking a tank with 44% winrate sure is interesting, but perfectly doable if he did it by beating up T8 tanks, i.e. not countering enemy top-tier tanks.


Edited by Aikl, 26 October 2017 - 01:49 AM.


NUKLEAR_SLUG #4 Posted 26 October 2017 - 02:29 AM

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Sounds a bit like you're being too passive in your BC and the outcome is already pretty much decided before you are getting involved in the end stages. You need to try to be an omnipresent threat the entire game so you're influencing the direction of the battle rather than just reacting to it. It's more dangerous of course but then that's why BC has a higher skill cap.

250swb #5 Posted 26 October 2017 - 03:07 AM

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Low win rate and high damage is typical of camping and not influencing the game. Of course you are going to get high damage if you sit around waiting for the enemy to come to you, but by then it is too late. So that is what you need to figure out, how to have more involvement in the battle when it matters at the beginning and middle, damage at the end should just be the gravy.

Edited by 250swb, 26 October 2017 - 03:08 AM.


Jigabachi #6 Posted 26 October 2017 - 03:23 AM

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Getting better is a long process. You won't go from bad to unicorn over the course of 10 matches.
It simply sounds like you are camping too much. Doing your 3000 average damage isn't worth anything if you do it when the match is already over.

But if you want any real advice, you have to post some replays. Play three to five matches in a row and upload them.

xx984 #7 Posted 26 October 2017 - 03:57 AM

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Please post some replays, as stated above, Not much we can help with if you dont. Apart from that, If you want feel free to send me a PM in game and we can platoon, and i can try to help you out abit and point some stuff out as i notice it.

Enforcer1975 #8 Posted 26 October 2017 - 07:21 AM

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Yep...like Aikl already showed in a nice graphic you might be doing your damage at the wrong time.

Ilknur_Ibryam #9 Posted 26 October 2017 - 07:46 AM

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I am not the best BC player nor player. But early damage and kills while you can keep your HP is what is winning the games. Besides it is pretty easy to do damage in batchat, the tank blasts around 2k dps in a clip.

 

What I do as I am ok in scouting is go scout and try to sneak dps in their scouts or slow moving heavies if the map has positions to do so. 

 

Then I try to rotate non stop until finding where my team or their team is trying to gain upper hand and I try to support that place 2nd line damage. Often in that time I may end up flanking and surrounding more aggressively. This is the period where I mostly fail and die, but the most decisive one. If I am able to to take out or at least help my team take out the defending or advancing tanks it ends in a win.

I do not play much end game in the batchat, but I should.



The_Derps #10 Posted 26 October 2017 - 09:07 AM

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I will post 5 replays when I can, later today or tomorow, I run a buisness so I can play everyday, but only later in the day.

thank you for all the help, please don't hesitate to criticise me, I need all the help I can get, and I am very willing to improve and see my mistakes. 

 

Some of my games are crap, like everybody, I will have a crap game every once in a while, so don't be surprised if atleast one of the replays are me doing badly, but I won't nitpick all my best games to show you, I will get 5 replays in session, so you can see how I play, my good and my bad.


 

Cobra6 #11 Posted 26 October 2017 - 09:18 AM

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You are doing damage but you are not doing damage on the targets that matter it seems if you lose your matches.

 

Everyone can farm easy damage on for instance paper targets that are no threat to your team what so ever, but that is not "good" damage, that is just easy damage.

 

If you lose more matches while doing a lot of damage you are not doing the damage that counts, so it seems you need to learn how to anticipate which tanks on the enemy team are, or will be, a threat or a problem to your team later on and try to damage those.

 

It's better to have 60% wr and 2000 damage average than it is to have 45% wr and 4000 average damage. One shows you know how to do the damage that counts and play as a team, the other shows you focus on easy damage but lose track of the ultimate goal: Winning.

This is the reason why high wn8 numbers are completely useless if your WR that goes with it is crap. Good wn8 and good WR go hand in hand with a good player.

 

Cobra 6


Edited by Cobra6, 26 October 2017 - 09:20 AM.


The_Derps #12 Posted 26 October 2017 - 09:20 AM

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View Postxx984, on 26 October 2017 - 03:57 AM, said:

Please post some replays, as stated above, Not much we can help with if you dont. Apart from that, If you want feel free to send me a PM in game and we can platoon, and i can try to help you out abit and point some stuff out as i notice it.

 

Would also love to plat, only problem is iv noticed that when I plat my performance usually diminishes spectacularly, I don't know why, but I suck when in plats and make my self look like a fool.

i wonder why that is though, I find it odd, but il still plat if I can, I would love some help with the bc, and realy also pointers how to get better at the game, and removing my mistakes.



The_Derps #13 Posted 26 October 2017 - 09:29 AM

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I try to kill priority targets, if I have shots at a tier 8 or a tier x, I will always remove the tier x, unless I can't penetrate it, and early game I do try to get as much damage as possible, but it is very hard to do more then 1k dm in the first 5 min, I don't know how, bare in mind I am no unicum, and have a long way to go before I'm even good.

Also I have a full femail crew, camo on 2 of them, and everything is set up to taim the gun, vents, vstab and that other think that makes you more accurate by 20% on the move and turret traverse, I did run food, but dissided not to as I can make a reliable profit in bc, and without food it is a good creditmaker, I also used to run 20/10 amo, but now I run full APCR as the only time I ever fire heat is when I don't have apcr, I can't remember the last time heat in that tank has been a use more then a hindrance to me.


Edited by The_Derps, 26 October 2017 - 09:32 AM.


Cobra6 #14 Posted 26 October 2017 - 09:34 AM

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View PostThe_Derps, on 26 October 2017 - 08:29 AM, said:

I try to kill priority targets, if I have shots at a tier 8 or a tier x, I will always remove the tier x, unless I can't penetrate it, and early game I do try to get as much damage as possible, but it is very hard to do more then 1k do in the first 5 min, I don't know how, bare in mind I am no unicum, and have a long way to go before I'm even good.

 

 

The tier 10 is not always the most important target. If the T10 is in front of your team but the tier 8 is in their side, the tier 8 is the issue primarily.

As a batchat you have the speed to get around and take out threats to your allies (or distractions, whichever you prefer) and you have the viewrange to light up camping TD's or make life difficult for light tanks.

 

Batchat is one of the most tricky T10 tanks to play succesfully and once you master it you can use the skills you've learned on any other tank.

 

Another tip is: Play light tanks on lower tiers, their role is *VERY* similar to the Batchat's role and playstyle on tier 10. Use speed, use mobility, use viewrange and pounce on unaware targets.

 

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CoDiGGo #15 Posted 26 October 2017 - 09:38 AM

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View PostThe_Derps, on 26 October 2017 - 09:20 AM, said:

 

Would also love to plat, only problem is iv noticed that when I plat my performance usually diminishes spectacularly, I don't know why, but I suck when in plats and make my self look like a fool.

i wonder why that is though, I find it odd, but il still plat if I can, I would love some help with the bc, and realy also pointers how to get better at the game, and removing my mistakes.

 

Batchat is difficult, not a tank to learn in. Play other easier tanks and go back to it when you are more experienced.

Noo_Noo #16 Posted 26 October 2017 - 09:45 AM

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By the sounds of it you have a similar issue to me. Not doing enough early and mid game to swing the result in your favour. It's not easy, especially not at tier 10. 

Plus games are normally won by whichever teams wins a flank or a key choke point first. Sometimes there's a second phase were spotting comes into it. As an example you can win the hill on Malinovka but then if there's no spotting down the hill then the TD's just farm the damage and can basically stop the push dead.

the difficult bit is recognising these moments and doing the right thing. Positioning is everything. 

Jingles posted a video up last week which had someone in a OBJ 140 on Prokhorovkha. The guy basically picked his shots throughout the game but there was one key moment where the enemy started to push the 1 line. He recognised the problem and basically swung the game for his team by positioning himself to stop the push and provide vision. Had this not happened I suspect that he would have had a high damage game still but lost the battle.

Edited by Noo_Noo, 26 October 2017 - 09:47 AM.


The_Derps #17 Posted 26 October 2017 - 09:48 AM

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Ahh, yes, if I see a tank that is the main threat to my ally, I will try to remove it, but it is hard for me to do much early game due to the massive clusters of tanks, super heavys and td meta, I don't know how do do anything much early game without  losing a lot of hp, I will send the replays later today or so if I can, then I can realy get better at the game, the main reson I want to get better at bc is that it is one of the hardest tanks to play, but if I play low tiers, I'm not going to be punished enough, being at tier 10 and in a tank like this is realy good training for me.  The batchat is my training thank by the way, I use it to get better, if I master it, I hope it will make me far better in every tank.

 

 Fondly enough, I had the Chinese lights, and I have 50+ winrates in them before lighters where changed and after, but I wasent spotting much, just doing a lot of dm and helping my team, the tier 7 had a 56% winrate, and I also have a 56% winrate on average in my lorr 40t.

 

I also have almost second marked my is3, which I'm really excited about, due to it being my first second mark.

 

I don't think of my self as a bad player, as I know all the basics, but I think I'm missing something big, I don't know what this hidden secret skill is, but I know I don't have it yet.

 

i don't have much experience in this game compared to all of you, but I realy, REALY just want to get better, m first goal is simply a 50% winrate.



Aikl #18 Posted 26 October 2017 - 09:49 AM

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View PostThe_Derps, on 26 October 2017 - 08:20 AM, said:

 

Would also love to plat, only problem is iv noticed that when I plat my performance usually diminishes spectacularly, I don't know why, but I suck when in plats and make my self look like a fool.

i wonder why that is though, I find it odd, but il still plat if I can, I would love some help with the bc, and realy also pointers how to get better at the game, and removing my mistakes.

 

Kind of odd, but most likely you don't relax or try too hard to help your platoonmate out at all times; there's a fair chance he's doing a mistake that you're repeating, or taking a position that you can't use right (talking from experience).

 

View PostThe_Derps, on 26 October 2017 - 08:29 AM, said:

I try to kill priority targets, if I have shots at a tier 8 or a tier x, I will always remove the tier x, unless I can't penetrate it, and early game I do try to get as much damage as possible, but it is very hard to do more then 1k dm in the first 5 min, I don't know how, bare in mind I am no unicum, and have a long way to go before I'm even good.

Also I have a full femail crew, camo on 2 of them, and everything is set up to taim the gun, vents, vstab and that other think that makes you more accurate by 20% on the move and turret traverse, I did run food, but dissided not to as I can make a reliable profit in bc, and without food it is a good creditmaker, I also used to run 20/10 amo, but now I run full APCR as the only time I ever fire heat is when I don't have apcr, I can't remember the last time heat in that tank has been a use more then a hindrance to me.

 

That alone makes you a decent player; understanding your own limits is important. Anyway, you're not even that bad. To think you're not that good is good for learning. Still, your recent-ish stats are quite decent. Nothing to be ashamed of, and probably plenty to work on.

If you feel there's something you're missing, it's sometimes the simple matter of the team collapsing like a house of cards before you can do anything at all. Sometimes blaming the team is a good idea; no point in getting grey hair over not saving a team destined for the grave.

 

There's one thing that worked fairly well for me:

If you can't play a ton, it's usually a good idea to focus on a few tanks, or even one tank per session. Ideally similar ones, too. Lorraine 40t and Batchat are "close enough", I think. Not ideal for grinding, but makes for good, intensive learning. Getting that 2x bonus on a tank isn't really worthwhile, it's mostly a tool to make you play more.

 

PS: If I had any ability to teach you the Batchat (I seriously don't, and I've played two games with the elite gun so far), I'd love to platoon with 'The_Derps'. :D


Edited by Aikl, 26 October 2017 - 09:53 AM.


The_Derps #19 Posted 26 October 2017 - 10:01 AM

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I tend only to play the batchat and lorr, maybe sorp, but I am trying to get 1k games in bat, I understand why people say train at lower tiers, but then I'm not fighting expieriensed payers, I can't learn to play from fighting other bad players, the only way I will learn is to just get right in to the hardest tank in the game, at the hardest tier in the game, I will be punished heavily, but when I finally master, the tank, even if it takes 5k games, I will be good in every tank, that is why I play bc to train, it may be hard, but when it's all don and over, I am one step closer to my dream of being a unicum...

 

~*which I won't be surprised if it takes two years :P*~

 

But in the end, this game is about experience, map positions, prime targets, knowing when to run, when to push, when to bullie, when to spot, non of which I have enough expierience to do well, I am a bad player, and I will get better, I will not be that guy who cannot blame him self, that loosing streak isn't bad luck, I know that, it's me, even if it's not me, and there was nothing I could have done in a game, it's still my fault, thats how I have to go about this, if I loose or do badly, it's me, regardless of the situation, that should help me get better.



Cobra6 #20 Posted 26 October 2017 - 10:08 AM

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View PostThe_Derps, on 26 October 2017 - 09:01 AM, said:

I tend only to play the batchat and lorr,

 

Problem is that those two tanks play completely differently, sure they both have an autoloader but the Lorraine plays more like a classical medium while the Batchat plays more like a light tank.

 

That is why I said to play light tanks, preferably paper ones like the RU or Bc12t/13-90 to learn to properly asses risks, try to maximise opportunities and generally improve your play. It is hard, it will take time, but it will pay off.

 

Basically while maintaining your HP you should always either be doing physical damage or doing spotting damage, if you are doing neither you are not fulfilling your role.

 

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