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Removing tanks and making lines "linear".

big sad whine about cookie-cutter tanks moms spaghetti

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Derethim #1 Posted 26 October 2017 - 04:49 PM

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To explain what bugs me...

WG's got a new trend of removing tanks, that could just simply stay in the game under the premise of making the line of tanks stick to one playstyle.

But why?

As I see it, it removes the variety and fun from the game. It also removes the need to adapt to a new tank, which I also find fun.

If that's what they want to do, then why does the chinese heavy line begin with light tanks, goes into a medium and then heavy?

I understand low tiers are mostly lights and meds and there isn't enough Chinese heavies for their own line, but the M5 is a dedicated light tank.

 

The Japanese medium line's playstyle also changes with every two-three tanks, for example, when going from the Chi-To to Chi-Ri and from Chi-Ri to STA-1 and I don't see a way they could make each of the tanks's playstyle the same and boring one, only one tier higher (but maybe the devs'll surprise us).

 

Instead they choose to change the USSR TD line and the rear-turreted medium line, although nobody's asked for that, removing the Obj 416 and adding a slightly different version of the Obj. 430 on top of it - the Obj. 430U. The Obj. 416 is going to be a premium tank in about 3 months imo, maybe sooner.

They did the same, when they removed the Lorr. 40t and replaced it with a weaker, cookie-cutter version of the Bat-Chat and made the Lorr. 40t into a premium tank, but a bit later on, so that nobody whines about it. Well now i'm here whining -_-

 

Seems to me they have a quota of premium tanks to release every year and they are running out/saving some for later, by removing a tank and making it a premium later on, while replacing it with a cookie-cutter version of the tank a tier above or below it. But why not make the cookie-cutter version a premium tank? Simple. People will buy it, because it looks and plays like a unique tank. They'll be less interested in grinding the normal line, because a lot of tanks in that line will be the same and more interested in buying our €€€ overpriced OP premium tanks!!111!! Yay. More money to pour into failures like WoWp.

 

All of this excused by "making a line's playstyle fit".

And while at it, let's make all tier X TDs deal 750 damage! Just like what they're gonna do with the USSR Obj. 263 line.

This is going to make a lot of the game's tank lines boring as hell.

 



brumbarr #2 Posted 26 October 2017 - 04:56 PM

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yeah, I also dont agree with it, whats the  point in going up a tier if you are jsut going to play the same tank? 

Now its interesting that each tank in a tree has some unique traits but they still ahev traits in common, then you feel you are progressing and playing a new tank.

 

They are killing variety on all fronts, and its not good for the game IMO:

-variety in  tech tree lines is goign down

-variety in classes is goind down due to all tank recieving the same buffs ( gun dep, turret armour)

-add to that the variety in tanks you meet in the battle is goind down due to mirror MM.

 



speedphlux #3 Posted 26 October 2017 - 05:20 PM

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Even variety in Nations is going down. Remember the "German Snipers" ? My Chinese tanks hit just as well. Who would say "No!" to 0.33 accuracy from their 121 Medium tank ? Not even running "food" or Vents. Also, a nice "Soviet" alpha of 440 from a 122mm gun ... Yeah, feels like driving around the same tanks nowdays.

CommandoAir #4 Posted 26 October 2017 - 05:40 PM

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I like how they're making lines more uniform, it means if you like the first tank or two, chances are you'll like the rest. You're less likely to grind to tier 10 to find out you don't like that tank.

 

I don't like how they're removing thanks, though. Why not just leave it in as an alternative? Surely it takes more work to remove a tank from the tech tree than it does to just shift it up or down a spot.



Derethim #5 Posted 26 October 2017 - 05:47 PM

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View PostCommandoAir, on 26 October 2017 - 05:40 PM, said:

 

I don't like how they're removing thanks, though. Why not just leave it in as an alternative? Surely it takes more work to remove a tank from the tech tree than it does to just shift it up or down a spot.

This.

Why can't there be more options, like when going from the Jagdpanther to either Jagdpanther II or the Ferdinand?

"No, let's remove it and make it a premium!" :facepalm:

Glad you agree at least with half of it.



Dava_117 #6 Posted 26 October 2017 - 06:04 PM

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Agree. Now lots of line end with the same tank in 3 different version. I like all the differences between different tier tanks. You usually pass from a design to a better one, or a more modern one. It's engineering and gameplay progression. And it's good as it is now, IMMO!

Lord_Edge #7 Posted 26 October 2017 - 06:31 PM

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The thing I dislike most about this is, they don't just remove a tank then replace it to make the lines linear, in many cases they remove a tank then replace it with a fictional tank they pulled out their *** to make the lines linear.

 

Granted sometimes the tank being removed never saw combat or sometimes even service itself, but they are usually more "real" than the ones WG simply invent.

 

 

View PostDava_117, on 26 October 2017 - 06:04 PM, said:

You usually pass from a design to a better one, or a more modern one. It's engineering and gameplay progression.

The funniest thing about this, is they are fine with the cruiser line ending with the Comet and the line then switching to the Centurion MBTs (in game as MTs) but they take issue with the AT line ending with the Tortoise and switching to the "Deathstar".  But both of those are exactly what happened in reality lol.  But no we can't have things the way they happened, we have to have iconic tanks removed and fictional replacements they made up to fill a gap they created >.>


Edited by Lord_Edge, 26 October 2017 - 06:36 PM.


Eleiyas236 #8 Posted 26 October 2017 - 07:21 PM

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where was it stated that WG is removing the OBJ416 ?

Derethim #9 Posted 26 October 2017 - 07:31 PM

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View PostEleiyas236, on 26 October 2017 - 07:21 PM, said:

where was it stated that WG is removing the OBJ416 ?

 

http://forum.worldof...medium-changes/

suat10 #10 Posted 26 October 2017 - 07:57 PM

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That's unfair!!Long time ago i researched the bulldog only to get the T57 heavy.Now with the new patch i can only get the Sheridan.So now I'll have to save money and buy the T71 and start again from tier 7 to get one of my dream tanks!Seriously?!?!Come on Wargaming.You can't just leave it like that.Like when the tier 8 b-c 12 t joined the game and Wargaming automacally gave it to me and left my amx 13-90 at tier 9.I'm really disappointed.

Eleiyas236 #11 Posted 26 October 2017 - 08:04 PM

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View PostDerethim, on 26 October 2017 - 07:31 PM, said:

 

thanks for the link. 

 

I'm currently grinding through the A-43, to go through the A-44 just to get the OBJ 416. It's one of the most interesting looking and unique tanks in the Russian med line currently. Better grind quicker and get it before next patch.

 

I wish they'd stop dropping cool tanks and dumping in hand-made ultra tanks that just happen to fit the current meta (because they over-buffed something previously) :(


Edited by Eleiyas236, 26 October 2017 - 08:05 PM.


Henschel_131 #12 Posted 26 October 2017 - 08:44 PM

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Losing the Obj 416 is pretty sad because it's perhaps the only good tier 8 medium. Just when they finally added HD model too...

 

Which does kind of make me think it will be back as a premium, although is there really room alongside the rear-turreted STG?



MR_FIAT #13 Posted 26 October 2017 - 09:31 PM

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View PostHenschel_131, on 26 October 2017 - 08:44 PM, said:

Losing the Obj 416 is pretty sad because it's perhaps the only good tier 8 medium. Just when they finally added HD model too...

 

Which does kind of make me think it will be back as a premium, although is there really room alongside the rear-turreted STG?

 

There is hoping it will be a "reward tank" like Foch 155 and FV215B, i realy dont want to lose my Obj 416.

lord_chipmonk #14 Posted 27 October 2017 - 12:10 AM

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View PostMR_FIAT, on 26 October 2017 - 09:31 PM, said:

There is hoping it will be a "reward tank" like Foch 155 and FV215B, i realy dont want to lose my Obj 416.

 

Yeah, don't want to lose mine either. I mean, the thing even exists. 



Phobos4321 #15 Posted 27 October 2017 - 03:37 AM

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new trend ?

 

like there is a new t71 ?

or the foch 155 /b

 

215b superconq etc  would you call that a trend of removing tanks when the total number just keeps increasing ?

 

also the german heavies  get 1 branch more instead of steamlining it to 1



tajj7 #16 Posted 27 October 2017 - 09:21 AM

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I'm not completely against a tech tree or line having a flavour and tanks in the line having similar playstyles, logically it makes sense.

 

However what is more worrying is that they are heading all tanks in one direction -> a general dumbing down of these tanks and extreme balancing that can only really favour dumb players. 

 

Look at the Conqueror for example, ok small changes it's not changed that much overall but buffed armour it doesn't need. 

 

430U, more buffed armour on a medium tank.

 

The 263 replacement, more idiot proof armour (sloped 250mm LFP you can't pen with normal ammo). but terrible DPM and terrible agility so anyone with a brain won't want to play it. 

 

The VK 1001 P, and PZ VII, buffed idiot proof armour, lower plates that are as strong as other tanks have full stop. But very slow tanks that again aren't fun for many players.

 

Foch B, retarded clip damage potential but just as awkward as the tank it replaced.

 

Super Conqueror, more buffed armour, at least it has a weak LFP I suppose so this tank is not as idiot proof as some of the others. 

 

Strv line, extreme base camping tanks basically.

 

 

Lots and lots of changes basically for idiot players, either OP weakspot free armour ('new' 263, Maus, type 5, Panzer VII, etc.) or extreme attributes that are cancerous to the game (Strv stupid camo, Foch B stupid clip etc.)

 

 



The_Georgian_One #17 Posted 27 October 2017 - 10:02 AM

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They slowly introduce 1st iteration sandbox changes. Instead of doing massive rework they just add it tank by tank, line by line. Notice how tank moved to HD loose weakspots. Notice how new tanks/lines have AP proof frontal armor as Tajj mention. Finally, notice how they change accuracy, 263 line being prime example. They just force us to shoot more prem ammo, but do it step-by-step to be sneaky.




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