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Is it me or are maps just not good enough to support full tier 10 battles?


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HundeWurst #1 Posted 29 October 2017 - 05:19 PM

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Yes just wondering.

 

Full tier 10 matchups are jsut so damn sad and bad. These maps.... So BADDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD



Mimos_A #2 Posted 29 October 2017 - 05:27 PM

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It's not just you. A lot of maps feel really, really restrictive and unbalanced for full tier 10 battles. Especially small maps like Ensk don't work at all for 15v15 tier 10 setups.

Jigabachi #3 Posted 29 October 2017 - 05:37 PM

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You're late to the party. We already noticed that many years ago.

But it's not only full tX matches. There are only a few (two or three?) maps that can provide fun and balanced tX matches. All others should be capped at tVIII or even earlier.

That's one of the only things I liked about AW - many big maps.


Edited by Jigabachi, 29 October 2017 - 06:07 PM.


qpranger #4 Posted 29 October 2017 - 05:51 PM

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If only WOT had WT maps...

Enforcer1975 #5 Posted 29 October 2017 - 05:54 PM

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What are you talking about? Mines f.e. is the best map ever for a full tier 10 battle. No need to look for the enemy, no need to lead targets and stuff like that because the engagement distances are so close.

Balc0ra #6 Posted 29 October 2017 - 05:58 PM

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Depends on what you mean by support. Ar we talking map size or the right flow of open ground vs urban etc?

 

As for size, Ensk and Mines have always been terrible for high tier games. And size wise with all the mobility buffs of late on even slow TD's. Tier 8 to X games could still get 1250x1250 maps etc vs the 600x600 maps they have now and still keep the 15 vs 15 format. I say tier 8 to X... as in not tier 8 as top tier vs tier 6. But due to the new meta on high tiers. Having smaller maps on tier 8+ is not ideal anymore.



Banelord #7 Posted 29 October 2017 - 06:12 PM

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View PostWunderWurst, on 29 October 2017 - 04:19 PM, said:

Yes just wondering.

 

Full tier 10 matchups are jsut so damn sad and bad. These maps.... So BADDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD

 

I have more the feeling that most map are not good enough for 15v15 matchups in general

ZlatanArKung #8 Posted 29 October 2017 - 06:14 PM

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In general, yes.
Most maps are not good enough to support T8+ games in the 15v15 format imo.

ZlatanArKung #9 Posted 29 October 2017 - 06:15 PM

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View PostEnforcer1975, on 29 October 2017 - 05:54 PM, said:

What are you talking about? Mines f.e. is the best map ever for a full tier 10 battle. No need to look for the enemy, no need to lead targets and stuff like that because the engagement distances are so close.

 

And with 3 arty, no need to move either.



ZlatanArKung #10 Posted 29 October 2017 - 06:16 PM

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T7 and lower tanks work better since they have worse guns and worse viewrange.

jack_timber #11 Posted 29 October 2017 - 06:16 PM

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Bigger maps please not these tiny ones, megamap is an example even though it does play like 3 smaller maps combined.

I have heard that bigger maps are coming a week on Wednesday don't tell everyone:)



ExclamationMark #12 Posted 29 October 2017 - 06:20 PM

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Yes you are absolutely the only person in the game who feels this way.

Shameful that one could even think like that...



HundeWurst #13 Posted 29 October 2017 - 07:04 PM

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I mean I am well aware how pathetic the average map design is in general. I would go and say that at least 20 out of the 40 maps need a major overhaul to be at least bearable. And another 10 maps should just be removed as they are so bad.

 

However what I find the most interesting is that in this matter the community is more or less united. Its not like arty, where there are 2 opposing groups. I have yet to come across someone who thinks most of the maps are alright.

 

The thing is.... After the latest patch the frequency of full tier 10 battles seem to have risen a bit again. That might help the tier 8 tanks a bit - well lets be honest not really could that be considered helpfull for them, judging by my latest experiences with tier 8 mm, but its so sad for tier 10.

THere are so many maps, which in lower tiers somewhat work (tier 8 and below) but go from "alright" to dog$hit in higher tiers. The sheer amount of mindless brawling going on is just sad. Ofc tunnles are nothing new and I already cried out of the forums more than once, but today its hitting me like a rock. On 3/4 of all the maps there is NOTHING left to be done than to drive in some corridor and then try to trade with heavy tanks or high alpha TDs. Anything without armor or low alpha is just royaly screwed. Where is the fun in that.

Also the constant stupid overbuffing of hulldown tanks does not make it any better. By now every corridor features multiple "I go hulldown I win" tanks. The gameplay is really just sad.


Edited by WunderWurst, 29 October 2017 - 08:26 PM.


ZaBici #14 Posted 29 October 2017 - 09:41 PM

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Quit the game some.. 2 years ago, minimum, because most of the tactical part of the game was arcaded and everything became about "bigger is better". The killer in my eyes was gold ammo for silver and then closely followed by insane high alpha TD's and the notorious autoloader inflation (which could shoot their drum in less than 8 seconds, basically trumping anything at that time). Counterplay?

The game was constructed to be played on regular ammo, you really had to pay some premium bucks to shoot premium ammo all the time and the ones who could afford it were really rare, didn't feel like they were ruining the game because most of the time, they had no ideea how to shoot anyway so - eh, [edited]it, let them have it.

I'm past "complaining" as the waves of new players used to call it back then, "you just have to adapt" - Maybe, but a game is not fun for me if i have to wait 5 minutes before someone loses his patience and unbalances a team. I've come back now just to see what's up with the game (nostalgia kicked in) and I was greeted by a green flame door and some Leviathan which instantly put me off, is this Warcraft?!

 

Just to make this nostalgia trip a bit longer, I remember when the main attraction for and from WG was a trip to a tank museum complete with a tank history buff (well at least compared to me) that guided you through the experience. The comment section had people that were interested in tanks, that knew about them, you had grandpa's that drove these things. It was ABOUT tanks, it was world of tanks, the same money hungry guys now were hungry then as well, but it at least started from a dream that was true. That dream is long gone, this is a husk of what was once a game.

 

Quitting again after 2 days and this is the necessary post that comes with quitting. May it help many more to quit.


Edited by ZaBici, 29 October 2017 - 09:47 PM.


Bennie182 #15 Posted 29 October 2017 - 09:55 PM

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I agree on you WunderWurst, but bigger maps will also help out td's a whole lot, which is something that I don't like. I already find enough maps in which I get punished for taking a road, because I have no option to do that, to either spot that td, or get to their base. More distance = more value for their camo and more win chance for them. Of course I know that you can sometimes take multiple routes, but not always.

Mimos_A #16 Posted 29 October 2017 - 10:08 PM

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View PostBennie182, on 29 October 2017 - 09:55 PM, said:

I agree on you WunderWurst, but bigger maps will also help out td's a whole lot, which is something that I don't like. I already find enough maps in which I get punished for taking a road, because I have no option to do that, to either spot that td, or get to their base. More distance = more value for their camo and more win chance for them. Of course I know that you can sometimes take multiple routes, but not always.

 

That is exactly the type of thinking that causes the crappy map design we get. "I don't want to hit by a td I can't spot". So every map is just turned into a corridor where you can spot the other end. Just great. If there's bigger maps, use the map to approach the td's in a way where they don't just harvest you.

ZlatanArKung #17 Posted 29 October 2017 - 10:59 PM

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There are a lot of shitty maps.

Pilsen, Paris, charkov, Stalingrad (4 och WGS 5 latest added maps), Mines, Ensk,  Abbey, Mountain Pass, Shitstorm, Tundra.

These are all maps I would prefer if the got removed, because I think they are beyond salvation.

Maps that has potential.
Himmelsdorf  (make it 1000x1000), Ruinberg (change mid area and city brawl area), Overlord (remove beach), Lakeville, remove Valley and add something useful and strong) Maloninovka  (remove the way to powerful bush area close to the red line)

Junglist_ #18 Posted 29 October 2017 - 11:07 PM

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Yes that's why I have stopped playing tier 10 almost completely after they introduced the new MM. And especially after playing the Normandy map on Sandbox where I could see how fun could the tier 10 games be with long distance combat. And then they introduced the pathetic Grand Battle map instead which is just 30v30 version of Mines.

Temid23 #19 Posted 30 October 2017 - 12:56 AM

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That is the only main reason why i don't play much tier 10 games: Maps feel to small for tier 10 tanks same with max view range and render range.

Tiers 7,8,9 somehow feels much better (if you don't land on that stupid mines or ensk).

 

Edit: Forget to add tier 10 is probably worst balanced tier in game right now.


Edited by Temid23, 30 October 2017 - 01:02 AM.


NoPoet406 #20 Posted 30 October 2017 - 01:00 AM

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The question of maps is interesting, as I don't particularly hate them except for wide open ones such as the horrible one with the tall arched bridge in the centre. And as my tanks are slow, I find there are too many maps with very long, steep hills (the desert maps are really bad for this). There isn't much variety in maps and the only word on new maps seems to be "we're putting statues in one and Greek ruins in another."

 

The things that bug me the most are other things mentioned in this thread.

 

Autoloaders: AKA the Pz 1C or Luchs or Leopard of Instant Guaranteed Death. It doesn't matter what tank you drive, statpadding unicums own these vehicles and they will hunt you down and unload their magazines into you... magazines which, by coincidence, contain just enough ammo to guarantee your destruction.

 

Prevalence of gold ammo: I think it is OK that premium ammo can be bought with silver, since it's possible to be constantly bottom tank in the bottom tier (ahem, Crusader, Covenanter). OTOH, since this latest update I and my platoon mates are constantly being attacked by a hail of APCR ammo. It doesn't matter what tank the enemy is in, or what tank we are in, the enemy fires shot after shot of premium ammo. Where are they getting the money from?

 

Seal clubbers: There are too many sealclubbers/statpadders/rerollers monging up the lower tiers. High tier players hate noobs joining their ranks? Guess what, we hate you joining ours, but you do it a lot.

 

Lack of communication between players: Everyone ignores everyone else. No cohesion, no plan, just everyone pile out onto the flanks and let the enemy take our base. Even when our base is under attack, no-one else comes back to defend it. If you tip up, no-one will push you back over.

 

I don't see how changing the maps will help with any of this. Most of the game's problems seem to stem from the players. The game certainly has its flaws; WG certainly isn't interested in improving the experience of EU players; but maybe the reason we're neglected is because in WG's eyes, we are the cancer.






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