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spg arty feedback

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kubawt112 #11141 Posted 17 November 2019 - 05:58 PM

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View PostErwin_Von_Braun, on 17 November 2019 - 05:32 PM, said:

Besides, I don't think arty supports have the moratorium on cheap insults to justify their position.

 

How would you describe a player who sends unsolicited cheap insults in game, because the internet protects them? Apart from being a hypocrite what else could justify their position?



Erwin_Von_Braun #11142 Posted 17 November 2019 - 06:44 PM

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:popcorn:

Erwin_Von_Braun #11143 Posted 17 November 2019 - 07:58 PM

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Back on topic - arty is great isn't it?


Edited by Erwin_Von_Braun, 17 November 2019 - 08:04 PM.


ThorgrimBrenadim #11144 Posted 17 November 2019 - 08:10 PM

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View PostErwin_Von_Braun, on 17 November 2019 - 07:58 PM, said:


 

 

Back on topic - arty is great isn't it?

I do have to agree with you.

 

 

I love my diving and arty make great objects to view ubderwater while diving :)



ArtyMyDear #11145 Posted 17 November 2019 - 08:45 PM

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View PostThorgrimBrenadim, on 17 November 2019 - 12:53 PM, said:


What a load of dribble and BLATENT lies by me.

I am100% wrong as usual. All I do here is cause an argument so far and I am the one offering nothing constructive this thread

yes I know. I know that I am 100% right.

I agree that you should start making constructive discussion and not arguing all the time.

Now put theory in practice.



Erwin_Von_Braun #11146 Posted 17 November 2019 - 08:48 PM

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View PostThorgrimBrenadim, on 17 November 2019 - 07:10 PM, said:

I do have to agree with you.

 

 

I love my diving and arty make great objects to view ubderwater while diving :)

Here is the gods honest truth - back in the good old days of +3mm, I took HUGE pleasure in ramming high tier arty to death in my VK16.02 & VK28.01.

Many, many Kamikaze badges and Pascuccis (when you needed all three arty to earn one).

It never got old.


 

I miss +3mm for LT's :(



ThorgrimBrenadim #11147 Posted 17 November 2019 - 09:34 PM

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View PostArtyMyDear, on 17 November 2019 - 08:45 PM, said:

yes I know. I know that I am 100% right.

I agree that you should start making constructive discussion and not arguing all the time.

Now put theory in practice.

 

Is that the best you can do ?????

 

14 posts and not one single post has anything to say or add to any discussion. Then you want to say others need to start making constructive discusion.

 

Can I ask  HOW OLD ARE YOU ?


Edited by ThorgrimBrenadim, 17 November 2019 - 09:35 PM.


ArtyMyDear #11148 Posted 18 November 2019 - 12:22 PM

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View PostThorgrimBrenadim, on 17 November 2019 - 09:34 PM, said:

Is that the best you can do ?????

truth is the best i can do

I am not versed in lies, insults, trolling, wishing cancer and constanly repeating same old wish to remove arty.

I want serious discussion, for example how to implement japanese arty.



ilmavarvas #11149 Posted 18 November 2019 - 12:34 PM

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View PostErwin_Von_Braun, on 17 November 2019 - 07:58 PM, said:


 

 

Back on topic - arty is great isn't it?

Yes, arty is great, but it _could_ be greater too, they should make the reload faster, return the damage to old one, or maybe buff the damage, and make arty more accurate. Make Arty Great Again! #maga2020



RainbowRay #11150 Posted 18 November 2019 - 12:53 PM

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View Postilmavarvas, on 18 November 2019 - 12:34 PM, said:

Yes, arty is great, but it _could_ be greater too, they should make the reload faster, return the damage to old one, or maybe buff the damage, and make arty more accurate. Make Arty Great Again! #maga2020

u forgot to improve the mobility & viewrange. And they should get rid of the Arty Cap as well.

 

Game is being swarmed by TD,HT,MT, and LT. This is discrimination!

 

/s



Palora #11151 Posted 18 November 2019 - 01:41 PM

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View PostRainbowRay, on 18 November 2019 - 12:53 PM, said:

u forgot to improve the mobility & viewrange. And they should get rid of the Arty Cap as well.

 

Game is being swarmed by TD,HT,MT, and LT. This is discrimination!

 

/s



  Don't forget the HP buff arty needs, it's so annoying to die in 2-3 hits, other tanks take 6 or more. 
/s



ThorgrimBrenadim #11152 Posted 18 November 2019 - 02:58 PM

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Ok so hopefully back on topic this time.

 

We have had some arty players on here suggest that one arty per team is fine/ok with them and they will put up with potentially longer wait times and that they see some advantages that suit them ie if stun remains they get all that assist rather than share it with one or two other arty players.

I can only commend these players and it is players like these that cn make this thread worthwhile. But htose of us that do not like arty must step up and be as fair and considerate as these players.

 

Where I am coming from as some background I do not like arty I do not see any real value to it as it is at present, I see it in fact as a class that stops active game play that stops players improving their skill level ie learning hull down and side scraping to mention just two important skills. I was for fixing and limiting arty but recently due to lack of real solutions fixes from wargamming moved just into the camp of remove it from the game.

 

But 2 players here have made me just step back over that line and look for a compromise and I can only hope we can discuss this and I hope find a solution that could make this thread redundant and archive it for good.

It does not mean others who support arty have not had a positive impact just these two IMO stand out for me and full respect to them.

 

So background info out of the way.

 

I think reducing to one arty may cause longer wait times for arty players I do not really want to see players waiting long periods to get into a game after all I do not want to wait long periods to get into a game either.

 

So if we do not reduce it to one arty per team how can we make two arty per team work and not be IMO as disasterous as it can be at present?

 

My solution though needs a lot of input from you guys on both sides.

 

We keep one arty similiar to how it is now yes there will be some changes but not as drastic as they could be. But a second class of arty has serious changes now I do not know if this is better done by gun selection or by nation others will have to decide that. But this second class are more a support arty they fire a smoke shell  frindly firing from within this and damaging enemy gain the arty XP bounces on friendly add a little to the arty's XP. 

A second shell lets call it a starburst shell works just the same as a light scout spotting enemy but over a small radius to be decided ( too small and not worth using too big and it could cripple the game ) tanks spotted and damaged work just how assist damage works now.

Now for the more controversial one and this coming from someone who does not like arty, a more accurate shell with  a faster rate of fire and higher velocity so takes close to half the time to reach target, this shell would be either with no limit or a high limit count, now this may not be realistic but how many other things in this game are now so unrealistic? The difference is this shell does minimal damage per shot armour is not an issue but accuracy dictates damage dead centre max and the further out the lower the damage. BUT ! the shell must hit no splash damage this is why it must travel faster. now there is the risk this shell could be deadly to very low health tanks end game and this is something that may need to be looked at so as to not make arty OP end game. The intention of this shell is to make hull down tanks vulnerable to consistent damage and so stratergy comes into play for the tank player as well do they stay and hold a flank while the team push the other flank knowing arty will in the end kill them or do they pull back to a safer location?

For me this would enforce the stated roll that arty help stop camping because this would do that.

I would also give both classes of arty a direct fire shell and increase their HP to reflect this making them a juicer target but also an increase in their ability to defend themselves at close range again finding a balance that works.

 

The traditional arty class would retain stun damage retain doing damage even when they miss within the paramiters as set at present though stun does have to be changed  but maybe not soo much as less arty doing stun damage means it's is not as crippling and game breaking for some players as it can be at present.

Now the question is does this class of ary also gain the high accuracy low damage shell of the other arty class, for me I would rather see it not do but I am not 100% on this, but if it does maybe limit the number of shells.

 

Now that is a start maybe some good ideas maybe not but us all discussing this openly can only be good and if we agree in the end on a solution maybe try and get senior mods involved ie ask them to get wargamming devs to look at this and comment.

I think devs joining this discussion every now and then can only be good for the game and for restoring the players confidence in wargamming. Who knows maybe we can get some changes to be tested on the sandbox server in th future, we are the players we are a valuable resource for wargamming that costs them nothing so hopefully they will make use of this resource.

 

Good luck everyone and have fun and please lets stop all the flaming all the baiting etc etc we may have strong opinions and views but surely we have a common ground we all love and enjoy playing this game.



SaintMaddenus #11153 Posted 18 November 2019 - 03:09 PM

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I am actually getting more fed up with the pro arty "support" than the anti arty supporters right now.

yes I am aware that MANY anti arty posters post things like get cancer and  But at the moment the trolling appears mostly from the Pro arty side.  Really nobody needs that, not if you care about the game and not your own petty selves, not from either side.  Make your posts factual, not emotive.  Most posters want to improve the game, not troll others.  so if you are a troll (from either camp) [edited]off.  but you wont, because that's how trolls have fun, not by playing but cos they are sad individuals, whom have no concept of humanity and society.  and are so brave because of their anonymity.    As I am actually...   If you had my real name I woudnt post online at all because there are a lot of nasty twats out there.



Erwin_Von_Braun #11154 Posted 18 November 2019 - 08:33 PM

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View PostSaintMaddenus, on 18 November 2019 - 02:09 PM, said:

I am actually getting more fed up with the pro arty "support" than the anti arty supporters right now.

yes I am aware that MANY anti arty posters post things like get cancer and  But at the moment the trolling appears mostly from the Pro arty side.  Really nobody needs that, not if you care about the game and not your own petty selves, not from either side.  Make your posts factual, not emotive.  Most posters want to improve the game, not troll others.  so if you are a troll (from either camp) [edited]off.  but you wont, because that's how trolls have fun, not by playing but cos they are sad individuals, whom have no concept of humanity and society.  and are so brave because of their anonymity.    As I am actually...   If you had my real name I woudnt post online at all because there are a lot of nasty twats out there.

This be true.

I won't tell a lie (I'll leave that to UM) I do tend to be a tad fanatical when it comes to defending my interests, but only in the face of equally vociferous fanaticism (fight fire with fire & all that).

Truth is tho my friend, all of this has been said a hundred times before and we all end up going in circles, repeating the same tired arguments over & over & over.


 

Having said that, I am very much in favour of making arty a more relevant part of the game - some of Thorgrims ideas are interesting.

 

 

Edit: I'll make a pact with you, Thorgrim & anyone else who wants to join in, to only discuss arty without resorting to the usual cow chutney that has infected this thread.

Yes, Psychobear, you can come too, but only if you promise to behave yourself :P


 


Edited by Erwin_Von_Braun, 18 November 2019 - 08:36 PM.


Long_Range_Sniper #11155 Posted 18 November 2019 - 08:44 PM

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View PostThorgrimBrenadim, on 18 November 2019 - 01:58 PM, said:

We keep one arty similiar to how it is now yes there will be some changes but not as drastic as they could be. But a second class of arty has serious changes now I do not know if this is better done by gun selection or by nation others will have to decide that. But this second class are more a support arty they fire a smoke shell  frindly firing from within this and damaging enemy gain the arty XP bounces on friendly add a little to the arty's XP. 

A second shell lets call it a starburst shell works just the same as a light scout spotting enemy but over a small radius to be decided ( too small and not worth using too big and it could cripple the game ) tanks spotted and damaged work just how assist damage works now.

 

Cut and paste from a 2016 thread and a suggestion I made.

 

"Back in the day" this 432 with a Cymbeline radar was used for counter battery location. Clearly it's not viable in the game but I have suggested it as an additional crew skill, especially for light tanks.

 

Image result for cymbeline radar

 

Basically, the more light tanks (or others) on your team who have the "Locating radar" skill the more chance you have of spotting artillery firing, and when it does fire the longer it stays spotted. Any friendly artillery that then hits the spotted artillery gets an XP bonus that is shared with the spotting tanks. If none of your team have this extra skill in your crews then enemy artillery can click away without a worry. Any gunner should relocate anyway, so it just evens the playing field a bit more.

 

I'd like to see things like this in Balance 2.0, along with increased arty accuracy for a light tank requesting a fire mission and artillery hitting the targeted vehicle. Make lights and arty more reliant on each other.

 

It was even deployed within the era of the game with the Archer radar.

 

Image result for archer radar 1962



Erwin_Von_Braun #11156 Posted 18 November 2019 - 08:54 PM

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I quite like the idea of different rounds for arty - as Thorgrim has mentioned - this would require some creative thought from the devs as to how to implement XP & Credit gains to encourage regular arty players to switch rounds more frequently.


 

 



Mr_Bator #11157 Posted 18 November 2019 - 08:59 PM

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View PostErwin_Von_Braun, on 18 November 2019 - 07:54 PM, said:

I quite like the idea of different rounds for arty - as Thorgrim has mentioned - this would require some creative thought from the devs as to how to implement XP & Credit gains to encourage regular arty players to switch rounds more frequently.

I doubt the regular arty players can handle such changes.



Erwin_Von_Braun #11158 Posted 18 November 2019 - 09:16 PM

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Another thing I quite like the idea of is arty having to 'deploy' before being able to fire - a little like the Siege Tanks in StarCraft.

jabster #11159 Posted 18 November 2019 - 09:34 PM

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View PostErwin_Von_Braun, on 18 November 2019 - 08:16 PM, said:

Another thing I quite like the idea of is arty having to 'deploy' before being able to fire - a little like the Siege Tanks in StarCraft.

 

Can’t say agree as although I can see the idea behind a deployed mode it needs a more tactical choice of deployed vs. non-deployed so what are the pros and cons of each?



fwhaatpiraat #11160 Posted 18 November 2019 - 09:37 PM

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View Postkubawt112, on 17 November 2019 - 05:58 PM, said:

 

How would you describe a player who sends unsolicited cheap insults in game, because the internet protects them? Apart from being a hypocrite what else could justify their position?

Such behaviour doesn't fit in this game in my opinion.


Edited by fwhaatpiraat, 18 November 2019 - 10:07 PM.






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