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spg arty feedback

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SplittingVoid #21 Posted 30 October 2017 - 01:51 PM

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Well....I say it's too bloody accurate now these days. Arty definitely needs nerfs. Let me say that I've received 1000+ alpha from a BC 155 55, M 53/55, M40/43 and not to mention the premium shells of a T92 HMC for 1300+ and the obj 261 ..... all in my leopard 1. Here's the fantastic bit.....ON THE BLOODY MOVE. I mean c'mon how the hell are they able to dump shots  pin point on my back while I'm moving ? Its unbearable. Please nerf them (aim time/ accuracy alpha etc)or remove them or do something to increase the resistance of light or medium tanks with paper armour to these shells.


Edited by SplittingVoid, 30 October 2017 - 01:52 PM.


jack_timber #22 Posted 30 October 2017 - 01:51 PM

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View PostMrjj007, on 30 October 2017 - 12:43 PM, said:

I think that arty should be limited to one per team just like carriers in world of warships. From my experience they have similar abilities, e.g. striking enemys from across the map.

Wonder if carrier players on WoWs get the same grief by the minority as arty players do?

Anyways long live arty,  yes 2 as a maximum would be ample.



Zapfhan #23 Posted 30 October 2017 - 01:52 PM

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View PostMrjj007, on 30 October 2017 - 01:43 PM, said:

I think that arty should be limited to one per team just like carriers in world of warships. From my experience they have similar abilities, e.g. striking enemys from across the map.

 

Afaik Carriers are limited to two per team 

 

View PostTankkiPoju, on 30 October 2017 - 12:34 PM, said:

When is WG going to remove arty from the game?

 

If you can't do that, here is other suggestions:

 

- add arty free game mode

- add option to have no arties

- add extra premium time with no artys, either via consumables or extra cost. I would pay this.

- add button that allows me to click the arty player if he can click me from his base.

 

All your nice new game graphics aren't going to matter at all, because 80% of map space cant be used if there is arty in the game.

 

 

then also pls add a button that allows me to just play : 

-Maps i like 

-against tanks i like

-not against tanks/players i have an issue with whatsoever 

-the amount of tanks i need to do my personal missions 



xx984 #24 Posted 30 October 2017 - 02:02 PM

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Either 

 

1 - Limit arta to 2 per team.

 

or 

 

2 - Remove stuns from splashes, Only direct hits will stun, (Or at least reduce the splash alot) 



Mrjj007 #25 Posted 30 October 2017 - 02:05 PM

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View Postjack_timber, on 30 October 2017 - 01:51 PM, said:

Wonder if carrier players on WoWs get the same grief by the minority as arty players do?

Anyways long live arty,  yes 2 as a maximum would be ample.

As far I know carrier players don't get greif for playing carriers and I think its because it's much more tactical and more like an rts game. They I don't just camp at the back and click every 30s

 

View PostZapfhan, on 30 October 2017 - 01:52 PM, said:

 

Afaik Carriers are limited to two per team 

Sorry my bad I've never had a game with two carriers


 

SaintMaddenus #26 Posted 30 October 2017 - 02:07 PM

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I play arty, I enjoy arty.  I prefer this new mechanic as it makes sense within the suppression role of arty.

 

But arty players are their own worst enemy sometimes.   My last 6 games with arty on my side have proven a disappointment.   In three battles one of them drowned themselves.  In 2 others they did team damaged.  One was played ok.

 

One arty is enough.  It's far too easy to focus on one tank, ruining their game.    I've said this before, one arty is enough to prevent camping.   The long reload allows the enemy team to move around the map, if the arty is focused on the camper then the rest of the team is free to move.   If the super-heavy hull-down td or tank can't be winkled out by normal means then the arty can do it.   It would also be reason to keep you own team's arty alive to do that very job.

 

I have not shot anyone on my team in my arty in a long time, I've drowned once by accident in my arty trying to get into cover near water and slipped in.   Avoiding not shooting your team is easy, don't be greedy, expect your team mates to be "focused".    They don't always see the messages at the side, I know I don't when I'm in  a light trying to track a heavy or TD so I can carry on running rings around it.  or other such situation.  I also know sometimes the only way to survive is to face hug.

 

No, the quality of Arty players can be rather poor, not all arty are the same, but unfortunately, recently my experience has been one of annoyance and this is from one that is a long time arty player.   On the plus side I got bombardier  at the weekend, first time for ages...

 

 

 

"I mean c'mon how the hell are they able to dump shots  pin point on my back while I'm moving "

It's all about timing the shot.  many players think they are moving zig zag  but actually they are travelling along a straight line across that zig zag.   doesn't matter how fast you are going if you maintain same speed and you are heading for a certain point.  Varying speed, stopping for a brief moment,  larger circles on your zig being random, and I mean truly random in your movements will help.   The LEHF and the Bishop are very accurate with little stun area.  Move at least one body length outside of any pattern and you will be most likely be missed.   Big arty are less accurate but have bigger stun radius.



TankkiPoju #27 Posted 30 October 2017 - 02:09 PM

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View PostZapfhan, on 30 October 2017 - 01:52 PM, said:

then also pls add a button that allows me to just play : 

-Maps i like 

-against tanks i like

-not against tanks/players i have an issue with whatsoever 

-the amount of tanks i need to do my personal missions 

 

This was a thread about SPGs, why don't you make a thread about changed you want in the game.

 

Nothing is stopping you.



trispect #28 Posted 30 October 2017 - 02:12 PM

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View PostPh3lan, on 30 October 2017 - 01:16 PM, said:

 

The old one was outdated since it referred to the "old" version of arties, but since there are a lot of individual threads being created we thought it would be a good idea to have most of the discussion in one place. This makes it easier for us as well to see what people think and gather the feedback. 

 

Not sure if serious... Since arty mechanic is still the same as when they first were introduced in the game peoples' thoughts haven't really changed. Well a bit since you guys introduced additional griefing mechanic for this class (stun). So you should quite well know what people think about arty. Yes, it is griefing mechanic which should not have place in this game. 

 

New threads will pop up as long as this class exists in this game, since it really can't be balanced. 



Zapfhan #29 Posted 30 October 2017 - 02:40 PM

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View PostTankkiPoju, on 30 October 2017 - 02:09 PM, said:

 

This was a thread about SPGs, why don't you make a thread about changed you want in the game.

 

Nothing is stopping you.

 

 

Either you cant see the irony of my "proposed Changes" or you don´t want to see them 

 

A button/Gamemode/Consumable to not have a class of tanks in the game because you/someone don´t like it wouldn't lead to a better game. Does arty need some changes? Yes. Is ranting without a proposal leading to a better game? No.

 

Here are some thoughts about changes:

 

-Stun just with a direct Hit

-Special equipment for arty that benefits reload,splash,or stun in exchange for dmg e.g 15% better reload but 25% worse dmg 

-No Premium rounds

-Limit the amount of arty per game to two 

 



SlyMeerkat #30 Posted 30 October 2017 - 02:40 PM

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Although i understand how they can be annoying at times but I personally have never had an issue with arty in the game and without them it would be dull but of all the complaints i have read, if i was to agree with one, i would choose to limit them to 1 or 2 a side at least and im happy :)


Edited by SlyMeerkat, 30 October 2017 - 02:52 PM.


herhor67 #31 Posted 30 October 2017 - 02:46 PM

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Artillery should be spotted all the time or at least after every shot, so everyone could kill it.

Jumping_Turtle #32 Posted 30 October 2017 - 02:48 PM

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View Postxx984, on 30 October 2017 - 02:02 PM, said:

 

2 - Remove stuns from splashes, Only direct hits will stun, (Or at least reduce the splash alot) 

 

Wouldnt remove damage from splashes be a better idea ? Only get damage when hit and only get stunned a bit when missed but in splash range.

Mave_Maverick #33 Posted 30 October 2017 - 02:53 PM

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View PostPh3lan, on 30 October 2017 - 11:58 AM, said:

Hi all!

 

Since arty is always a hot topic please use this thread to discuss your SPG related thoughts/concerns/suggestions. Discuss away, but remember: #artylivesmatter :)

 

Let the tears flow! :arta:

ZlatanArKung #34 Posted 30 October 2017 - 03:13 PM

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#Artylivesdoesn'tmatter

ColonelKurtvonStrohm #35 Posted 30 October 2017 - 03:27 PM

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my idea (sorry for my bad english )

max 2 SPG's per team

give them back 9.17 DMG per shot , aimtime, reload ,accuracy and splash 

DONT give them back AP / HEAT ammo - this may prevent from "oneshoting" heavy tanks

completely remove Stun ! is more annoying than useful for everyone .............

 

 



matrix_68 #36 Posted 30 October 2017 - 03:48 PM

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In my opinion, artillery was nerfed too hard. I think that it should be still a one shot AND should have the stun mechanic if it doesn't kill the enemy. It should have less pen (like it does now) but still kill enemies with a single strike, cuz' it's made for it in the real world. I mean, it's really too weak now, it should getr a buff. But what does my opinion mean to the modern WG?

...

...

...

...

...

STOP SUCKING OUT OUR MONEY GUYS PLEASE.

Thank You if You read this and have a good day everybody! :)



ExclamationMark #37 Posted 30 October 2017 - 03:50 PM

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arta is mah bestest friend 

VijaCZ #38 Posted 30 October 2017 - 04:12 PM

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greetings from the CZ / SK part of the forum where the artillery problem is said a lot.

 

Create game mode without artillery - optional as an engagement or attack. Non-artillery mode would disadvantage, for example, -10% xp -10% of credits and inability to perform a mission. Artillery fans and players who tolerate artillery will remain unchanged, for the artyhaters to be a new Paradise mode.

If he wishes to earn WG, put the artillery mode without artillery as a paid option - as a prize account - at present it's the only thing I would be willing to pay for

apology for google-translator English



Long_Range_Sniper #39 Posted 30 October 2017 - 04:14 PM

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I wrote the text below in answer to a question from Milki about "Why Arty is Broken in World of Tanks" in another arty discussion thread way back in 2016. As this thread is now the pinned arty thread, I'll update the post for the new 9.18 world, and leave it here. It may be TLDR for some, in which case the summary is.

 

Wargaming failed to have design principles for indirect fire, and a vision for the role within the game. Subsequent attempts to tweak artillery have come close to establishing some principles. But the lack of a natural counter in game is still a glaring failure, and one that leads me to conclude that the sole purpose of artillery is to help constrain winrates by adding extra randomness to game outcomes, given a fixed circulation of maps.

 

 Why artillery is "broken" (as a gaming construct)

 

As the game is based on real vehicles, every single tank in the game acted at a tactical level. Whilst some were deployed to intervene strategically, like the German heavy tank units (Tiger 2 etc), they functioned tactically. If you can't see it you can't kill it. Units at this level (Battlegroup, Combat Command etc) did have tactical support from artillery. When Wargaming designed the game they introduced the Hummel. The game only had six vehicles in the original alpha version and one was artillery. So it has been in there from right at the beginning and clearly this seemed to work as a concept, so it was expanded. When the game went live there were now enough artillery vehicles to populate tiers for each country. Then what happened is that players found it was an easier route into the game, did more damage, and generally could cause total mayhem. This caused matchmaker and toons in artillery to be restricted. So now you have a load of players who've been grinding artillery and it stops at tier VIII. What Wargaming then did with version 8.6 was release huge damage dealing Corps level artillery into a tactical game, and give the reason as "full rebalancing of SPG's"

 

http://worldoftanks....6-update-notes/

 

If you read this in detail, the patch notes talk about artillery being more harmonious in terms of vehicle type. Other press releases talk about bolstering the tech tree to tier X. With hindsight, nobody would claim that this is "balanced". It might make the tech tree look "in balance" but its does nothing for gameplay. I suspect if they'd done a Sandbox for 8.6 they'd have realised the impact huge damage dealing, high tier artillery would have on the game. Because they broke their design principle in introducing it at that level. Wargaming balanced the tech trees but not the game.

At the level it's meant to operate in the real world, artillery could operate in a similar way in the game. Fast firing, lower damage artillery can be a tactical support weapon, and it adds variety to games. When it moves away from this concept, it's broken as it's squeezing a weapon platform into a game for a role that isn't needed. This is nothing to do with the macro impact randomness plays in the game. This is about failing to link the design principles for four classes of vehicle in the game with the fifth vehicle. When Wargaming reduced damage, and increased splash radius with the addition of stunning it was an attempt to claw back some of the operating foundation. My comments at the time about stun were that it was an arcade game invention, and that what Wargaming should have done was reduce your view range and comms. That is truly what happens when you're artied in a tank. Your crew button up, and sometimes you lose your antennae. You might get a headache, but you can't see as much or co-ordinate as well, which is what artillery is all about.

In the real world though, artillery has a counter. Mobile radar units can "spot" artillery and pass co-ordinates to generate counter battery fire onto the grid square detected by the radar unit. This was available in the era the game is set, and could easily be simulated by giving light tanks this as a skill. The more light tanks that have the skill, the better the triangulation. It forces your arty to relocate after every shot, and gives them at least some natural counter that did exist and is realistic. The closest Wargaming got to this was the tracer, and frankly, going after those (unless it's a LefH) is a total waste of time.

 

2. The game could probably do without artilery. But if WG had stuck to their original design principles you'd have a smaller tech tree of artillery vehicles that can be useful. Equally, having a game that has randomness in it is good for player retention. Artillery can cover both of these aspects. For those games where indirect support can help move things along, or break a deadlock it shortens the game. So queue times are kept low. As it is more RNG reliant than other vehicles it also helps with making each game a little different. That means that good players sometimes swear at the monitor a lot, and poorer players feel like heroes when they win. Even if they're in a normal tank and performing poorly, it's just arty on their team landed a good one on the enemy to help them along. It can also act as a noobtube for some players, and that's not really a bad thing...............................

Where you get the bad "rep" is you also get players who say things like this below. Is it any wonder they do this when Wargaming gave them tier IX/X artillery vehicles in the game when they really didn't need to do it.

View PostzeroXgiven, on 06 November 2016 - 03:47 AM, said:

P.S. I play arty cus i like to wreck crap and i suck and Tier X with normal tanks.

 

Basically, artillery can cover a few bases, and as it's in tune with the era the game is set, then why not? Certainly it's better than some random nuke strike.

If you were starting from scratch you could design the game with just four classes, but you'd probably need to find other ways to ensure a certain level of random outcome, and that the games were within tolerable game lengths. I'm quite sure WG have the information on game length, queue length, damage dealt, RNG and all the macro stats that can be tweaked behind the scenes. This has nothing to do with gameplay, and players quite rightly won't think this when they're one-shotted.

Here's me getting "balanced" at top speed in my RU251 last week. I'm sure many players have similar experiences.

shot_046gfgfgf.jpg 

 

But if that one shot meant the game we were going to win (statistically) took a turn for the worse, and the 15 players on the other team who were mostly poorer players stayed in the game stayed around for a few more. I realise that it helps the game in the long run. Still made me swear like a trooper at the screen though. Accepting that dump of RNG on your tank as being good for the game is a hard pill to swallow, and it may not be true. But it's the closest reason I can think as to why Wargaming retain high tier artillery.

It is however nowhere near as bad as being artied AND ammoracked at the same time in my T57

shot_043hjjhjh.jpg

RAGEUNINSTALL :izmena:


Edited by Long_Range_Sniper, 30 October 2017 - 06:40 PM.


FluffyRedFox #40 Posted 30 October 2017 - 04:31 PM

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Personal view  - It should be removed

Realistic view - Limit it to 1 per team







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