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ilmavarvas #3041 Posted 14 March 2018 - 03:48 PM

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Just revert the stupid arty changes and bring back the real arties please.

 

#bigsplashisfun

#iwanttooneshotenemies

#looserswillwhine

#thosesweettearsafteroneshottingenemyheavy



spamhamstar #3042 Posted 14 March 2018 - 07:03 PM

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View PostPhooBar, on 14 March 2018 - 01:03 PM, said:

 

#SLOWESTRELOAD

#HIGHESTRNG

#HEONLYSHELLSAGAINSTOPHEAVYTANKS

#LESSARMORTHANALIGHTTANK

#TEAMDEPENDENT

 

 

I'm not convinced most of that is true. 

 

Does arty really have the slowest reload or do some of them reload quicker than some same tier autoloaders for example?

RNG is exactly the same, I don't know where this highest rng came from but it's complete bs.  Dispersion may be greater due to being able to see to shoot targets further away but rng remains identical.

HE seems to work just fine for the type heavies against other heavies & arty gets the added bonus of the heavy tank not shooting back at it.

Some arty have better armour than light tanks. T92 has  25.4mm & sheridan has 14.3mm frontal hull armour for example.

All tanks are team dependant unless you plan on killing at least 15 in every game.

 

You may notice that in every one of your screenshots 14 other players also lost & some of them even did some damage.  Bad teams don't seem to be exclusive to arty then.  Apart from the game in the bishop, it appears you had plenty of time to fire while at little risk, managing 1747 damage in 1 tier 7 game, where your team apparently collapsed in front of you.  How do you think you would have done if you'd been in a different class on the front line?

 



Erwin_Von_Braun #3043 Posted 14 March 2018 - 09:40 PM

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View Postspamhamstar, on 14 March 2018 - 06:03 PM, said:

 

I'm not convinced most of that is true.

 

Does arty really have the slowest reload or do some of them reload quicker than some same tier autoloaders for example?

RNG is exactly the same, I don't know where this highest rng came from but it's complete bs.  Dispersion may be greater due to being able to see to shoot targets further away but rng remains identical.

HE seems to work just fine for the type heavies against other heavies & arty gets the added bonus of the heavy tank not shooting back at it.

Some arty have better armour than light tanks. T92 has  25.4mm & sheridan has 14.3mm frontal hull armour for example.

All tanks are team dependant unless you plan on killing at least 15 in every game.

 

You may notice that in every one of your screenshots 14 other players also lost & some of them even did some damage.  Bad teams don't seem to be exclusive to arty then.  Apart from the game in the bishop, it appears you had plenty of time to fire while at little risk, managing 1747 damage in 1 tier 7 game, where your team apparently collapsed in front of you.  How do you think you would have done if you'd been in a different class on the front line?

 

 

:teethhappy:

LordMuffin #3044 Posted 15 March 2018 - 10:16 AM

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View Postspamhamstar, on 14 March 2018 - 07:03 PM, said:

 

I'm not convinced most of that is true. 

 

Does arty really have the slowest reload or do some of them reload quicker than some same tier autoloaders for example?

RNG is exactly the same, I don't know where this highest rng came from but it's complete bs.  Dispersion may be greater due to being able to see to shoot targets further away but rng remains identical.

HE seems to work just fine for the type heavies against other heavies & arty gets the added bonus of the heavy tank not shooting back at it.

Some arty have better armour than light tanks. T92 has  25.4mm & sheridan has 14.3mm frontal hull armour for example.

All tanks are team dependant unless you plan on killing at least 15 in every game.

 

You may notice that in every one of your screenshots 14 other players also lost & some of them even did some damage.  Bad teams don't seem to be exclusive to arty then.  Apart from the game in the bishop, it appears you had plenty of time to fire while at little risk, managing 1747 damage in 1 tier 7 game, where your team apparently collapsed in front of you.  How do you think you would have done if you'd been in a different class on the front line?

 

 

If not in arty, he would have made 2 shots and died on the front line. 

In a T5 tank that means ~200-300 damage.



Sirebellus #3045 Posted 15 March 2018 - 01:02 PM

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View Postspamhamstar, on 14 March 2018 - 07:03 PM, said:

HE seems to work just fine for the type heavies against other heavies & arty gets the added bonus of the heavy tank not shooting back at it.

 

 

They don't work the same though... for example KV-2 has and HE pen of 86 and Alpha of 910 and the leFH has pen of 64 and Alpha of 350.


I was playing a game on Tuesday and an opposing KV-2 had fired 5 shots, killed 4 of my team and done 3000 or so damage and lost 300 or so HP himself

 

Then he moved into an open space into the sights of my leFH so I fired at him...

my first shot did about 45HP damage and tracked him....

my second shot did about 45HP damage and kept him tracked....

my third shot did about 45HP damage and kept him tracked....

my fourth shot did about 45HP damage and kept him tracked....

my fifth shot did about 45HP damage and kept him tracked....

my sixth shot did about 45HP damage and kept him tracked....

my seventh shot did about 45HP damage and kept him tracked....

my eighth shot did about 45HP damage and kept him tracked....

my ninth shot did about 45HP damage and kept him tracked....

my tenth shot did about 45HP damage and kept him tracked....

my eleventh shot did about 45HP damage and kept him tracked....

my twelfth shot did about 45HP damage and kept him tracked....

my thirteenth shot did about 45HP damage and killed him.

 

Thirteen shots to kill him doing about 560HP damage - he did that much damage with each shot at my team - so although we were both firing HE the results were totally different, and yes the people he was shooting at could shoot him back - well if they had still been alive they could have shot back anyway

 

(thirteen shots - that's about 100 seconds of him sitting there unable to move and getting his health nibbled away - oh the insulting language that he raged at me in chat after the game was shocking... curiously though when I asked him if the 4 members of my team he had derped to death before I shot him had sent him nasty messages for killing them he changed the subject on to how he was a better player than me and I should uninstall the game and then go and kill myself...
13 shots isn't even my record, it once took me 17 shots to kill a KV1-S :trollface:)

 



spamhamstar #3046 Posted 15 March 2018 - 01:15 PM

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View PostSirebellus, on 15 March 2018 - 12:02 PM, said:

 

They don't work the same though... for example KV-2 has and HE pen of 86 and Alpha of 910 and the leFH has pen of 64 and Alpha of 350.


I was playing a game on Tuesday and an opposing KV-2 had fired 5 shots, killed 4 of my team and done 3000 or so damage and lost 300 or so HP himself

 

Then he moved into an open space into the sights of my leFH so I fired at him...

my first shot did about 45HP damage and tracked him....

my second shot did about 45HP damage and kept him tracked....

my third shot did about 45HP damage and kept him tracked....

my fourth shot did about 45HP damage and kept him tracked....

my fifth shot did about 45HP damage and kept him tracked....

my sixth shot did about 45HP damage and kept him tracked....

my seventh shot did about 45HP damage and kept him tracked....

my eighth shot did about 45HP damage and kept him tracked....

my ninth shot did about 45HP damage and kept him tracked....

my tenth shot did about 45HP damage and kept him tracked....

my eleventh shot did about 45HP damage and kept him tracked....

my twelfth shot did about 45HP damage and kept him tracked....

my thirteenth shot did about 45HP damage and killed him.

 

Thirteen shots to kill him doing about 560HP damage - he did that much damage with each shot at my team - so although we were both firing HE the results were totally different, and yes the people he was shooting at could shoot him back - well if they had still been alive they could have shot back anyway

 

(thirteen shots - that's about 100 seconds of him sitting there unable to move and getting his health nibbled away - oh the insulting language that he raged at me in chat after the game was shocking... curiously though when I asked him if the 4 members of my team he had derped to death before I shot him had sent him nasty messages for killing them he changed the subject on to how he was a better player than me and I should uninstall the game and then go and kill myself...
13 shots isn't even my record, it once took me 17 shots to kill a KV1-S :trollface:)

 

 

So your point is that you were able to fire 13 times without being shot back at? Pretty sure I mentioned that.  However, I'm sure it must have taken great skill & tactical awareness on your part.  Thanks for explaining how HE works btw.  After 60k battles you'd have thought I'd have learned that :unsure:

Noo_Noo #3047 Posted 15 March 2018 - 01:42 PM

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View PostSirebellus, on 15 March 2018 - 01:02 PM, said:

 

They don't work the same though... for example KV-2 has and HE pen of 86 and Alpha of 910 and the leFH has pen of 64 and Alpha of 350.


I was playing a game on Tuesday and an opposing KV-2 had fired 5 shots, killed 4 of my team and done 3000 or so damage and lost 300 or so HP himself

 

Then he moved into an open space into the sights of my leFH so I fired at him...

my first shot did about 45HP damage and tracked him....

my second shot did about 45HP damage and kept him tracked....

my third shot did about 45HP damage and kept him tracked....

my fourth shot did about 45HP damage and kept him tracked....

my fifth shot did about 45HP damage and kept him tracked....

my sixth shot did about 45HP damage and kept him tracked....

my seventh shot did about 45HP damage and kept him tracked....

my eighth shot did about 45HP damage and kept him tracked....

my ninth shot did about 45HP damage and kept him tracked....

my tenth shot did about 45HP damage and kept him tracked....

my eleventh shot did about 45HP damage and kept him tracked....

my twelfth shot did about 45HP damage and kept him tracked....

my thirteenth shot did about 45HP damage and killed him.

 

Thirteen shots to kill him doing about 560HP damage - he did that much damage with each shot at my team - so although we were both firing HE the results were totally different, and yes the people he was shooting at could shoot him back - well if they had still been alive they could have shot back anyway

 

(thirteen shots - that's about 100 seconds of him sitting there unable to move and getting his health nibbled away - oh the insulting language that he raged at me in chat after the game was shocking... curiously though when I asked him if the 4 members of my team he had derped to death before I shot him had sent him nasty messages for killing them he changed the subject on to how he was a better player than me and I should uninstall the game and then go and kill myself...
13 shots isn't even my record, it once took me 17 shots to kill a KV1-S :trollface:)

 

 

Excellent post. Here we have an example of the problems with arty. 13 shots at a target that kept him perma tracked and there was nothing he could have done about it. He couldn't shoot back at his assassin and the rate of fire on the Lefefefe basically meant he just had to sit there.

 

Well done for probably (I assume) winning the game for your team by left clicking 13 times. Sounds like hard work and balanced game play to me!

 


 



HeidenSieker #3048 Posted 15 March 2018 - 02:17 PM

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View PostNoo_Noo, on 15 March 2018 - 01:42 PM, said:

Excellent post. Here we have an example of the problems with arty. 13 shots at a target that kept him perma tracked and there was nothing he could have done about it.

 

You still here, wittering in the same old way, when you got the hump earlier and said you'd be off?

 

Well, it's what's not said or is utterly wrong that does for you, and also spammie:

 

1) The target could have used a repair kit. Heck, given that length of time, he could have used a kit *twice*.

 

2) SH fails to address Sirebellus's point: "They (HE shell) don't work the same though... for example KV-2 has and HE pen of 86 and Alpha of 910 and the leFH has pen of 64 and Alpha of 350".

 

View PostSirebellus, on 15 March 2018 - 01:02 PM, said:

They (HE shells) don't work the same though... for example KV-2 has and HE pen of 86 and Alpha of 910 and the leFH has pen of 64 and Alpha of 350.

 

Are you sure? I thought the Leffy's penetration to be 53mm?
 

Noo_Noo #3049 Posted 15 March 2018 - 02:26 PM

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View PostHeidenSieker, on 15 March 2018 - 02:17 PM, said:

 

You still here, wittering in the same old way, when you got the hump earlier and said you'd be off?

 

Well, it's what's not said or is utterly wrong that does for you, and also spammie:

 

1) The target could have used a repair kit. Heck, given that length of time, he could have used a kit *twice*.

 

2) SH fails to address Sirebellus's point: "They (HE shell) don't work the same though... for example KV-2 has and HE pen of 86 and Alpha of 910 and the leFH has pen of 64 and Alpha of 350".

 

1) I bet the KV2 did art least once in that exchange. 

 

2) It was clearly enough though wasn't it? LEFEFE did what it was supposed to do. Now tell me that its fair and balanced game play without asking for a effin replay that will prove nothing.



HeidenSieker #3050 Posted 15 March 2018 - 02:32 PM

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View PostNoo_Noo, on 15 March 2018 - 02:26 PM, said:

1) I bet the KV2 did art least once in that exchange. 

 

2) It was clearly enough though wasn't it? LEFEFE did what it was supposed to do. Now tell me that its fair and balanced game play without asking for a effin replay that will prove nothing.

 

Why not ask Sirebellus for the replay?

 

As for "I bet" and "clearly wasn't enough", you base your second statement on the premise of the first and claim it as fact!


Edited by HeidenSieker, 15 March 2018 - 02:52 PM.


spamhamstar #3051 Posted 15 March 2018 - 03:01 PM

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View PostHeidenSieker, on 15 March 2018 - 01:17 PM, said:

 

You still here, wittering in the same old way, when you got the hump earlier and said you'd be off?

 

Well, it's what's not said or is utterly wrong that does for you, and also spammie:

 

1) The target could have used a repair kit. Heck, given that length of time, he could have used a kit *twice*.

 

2) SH fails to address Sirebellus's point: "They (HE shell) don't work the same though... for example KV-2 has and HE pen of 86 and Alpha of 910 and the leFH has pen of 64 and Alpha of 350".

 

oh you're back are you & with more of the same I see.

 

1) You clearly haven't been following the thread.  The point was he could have shot him 13 times & had time to do so without anyone threatening him.  Having time to use 2 repair kits just highlights how long that was, so thankyou.

2) The HE work exactly the same, 1 just has more pen but isn't shooting down on weaker armour.

 

Now if only we had someone who'd ask him for a replay.

 

View PostHeidenSieker, on 15 March 2018 - 01:32 PM, said:

 

Why not ask Sirebellus for the replay?

 

:teethhappy:



Sirebellus #3052 Posted 15 March 2018 - 03:24 PM

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View PostNoo_Noo, on 15 March 2018 - 01:42 PM, said:

 

Well done for probably (I assume) winning the game for your team by left clicking 13 times. Sounds like hard work and balanced game play to me!

 

 

Actually rather than winning the game by shooting the KV-2 thirteen times, we lost the game because I had to shoot the KV-2 thirteen times

I have no doubt that the WG Devs would say that their mechanics worked excellently - A heavily armoured target should get tracked and stunned by arty without losing too much HP, and then other tanks on the team can destroy it easier - but in this case there were no friendly tanks near the KV-2 so I spent over 10% of the total possible game time destroying one tank.
And that's pretty much the same for all SPG's - they can't carry a game because they can not destroy enemies quickly enough to do so,

 

I will have the replay on the PC at home, but I'm not sure it will help much in making the judgement as to whether he used a repair kit or not as most of the time he was unspotted, so I was just firing at the same place over and over again and as there wasn't an explosion I knew I'd hit him so carried on firing - I know he died when the voice said 'enemy vehicle destroyed' and I know I did 13 damaging shots from the after battle results screen. (and I know he wasn't at all happy about it from the after game chat !)
 



HeidenSieker #3053 Posted 15 March 2018 - 03:24 PM

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View Postspamhamstar, on 15 March 2018 - 03:01 PM, said:

1) You clearly haven't been following the thread.  The point was he could have shot him 13 times & had time to do so without anyone threatening him.  Having time to use 2 repair kits just highlights how long that was, so thankyou.

2) The HE work exactly the same, 1 just has more pen but isn't shooting down on weaker armour.

 

The order of posts is obvious.

 

1) Sirebellus posted his example.

2) noonoo wrongly said "13 shots at a target that kept him perma tracked and there was nothing he could have done about it".



HeidenSieker #3054 Posted 15 March 2018 - 03:27 PM

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View PostSirebellus, on 15 March 2018 - 03:24 PM, said:

Actually rather than winning the game by shooting the KV-2 thirteen times, we lost the game because I had to shoot the KV-2 thirteen times

I have no doubt that the WG Devs would say that their mechanics worked excellently - A heavily armoured target should get tracked and stunned by arty without losing too much HP, and then other tanks on the team can destroy it easier - but in this case there were no friendly tanks near the KV-2 so I spent over 10% of the total possible game time destroying one tank.
And that's pretty much the same for all SPG's - they can't carry a game because they can not destroy enemies quickly enough to do so,

 

I will have the replay on the PC at home, but I'm not sure it will help much in making the judgement as to whether he used a repair kit or not as most of the time he was unspotted, so I was just firing at the same place over and over again and as there wasn't an explosion I knew I'd hit him so carried on firing - I know he died when the voice said 'enemy vehicle destroyed' and I know I did 13 damaging shots from the after battle results screen. (and I know he wasn't at all happy about it from the after game chat !)

 

Good points in your post. I very much doubt that the replay would show whether or not a repair kit actually was used, but that's not the point. Nonoo's erroneous and fanciful posting is the point.

Noo_Noo #3055 Posted 15 March 2018 - 04:51 PM

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View PostHeidenSieker, on 15 March 2018 - 03:24 PM, said:

 

The order of posts is obvious.

 

1) Sirebellus posted his example.

2) noonoo wrongly said "13 shots at a target that kept him perma tracked and there was nothing he could have done about it".

 

It's not wrong though is it numb nuts?

 

If he could have done something about it he wouldn't have been shot 13 times. Secondly Sibs post clearly said he perma tracked him. 

 

Is that logic not clear enough for you?


And regarding a repair kit you might pick it up in the replay if the tank started to move before it got shot again after a duration that is clearly too short for a full trained crew in repairs to fix the tracks.

 

Heiden just stop twisting logic to suit your petty little agenda. It quite honestly very tiresome. I should have stated IGNORE again to be honest. 



Noo_Noo #3056 Posted 15 March 2018 - 05:02 PM

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View PostSirebellus, on 15 March 2018 - 03:24 PM, said:

 

Actually rather than winning the game by shooting the KV-2 thirteen times, we lost the game because I had to shoot the KV-2 thirteen times

I have no doubt that the WG Devs would say that their mechanics worked excellently - A heavily armoured target should get tracked and stunned by arty without losing too much HP, and then other tanks on the team can destroy it easier - but in this case there were no friendly tanks near the KV-2 so I spent over 10% of the total possible game time destroying one tank.
And that's pretty much the same for all SPG's - they can't carry a game because they can not destroy enemies quickly enough to do so,

 

I will have the replay on the PC at home, but I'm not sure it will help much in making the judgement as to whether he used a repair kit or not as most of the time he was unspotted, so I was just firing at the same place over and over again and as there wasn't an explosion I knew I'd hit him so carried on firing - I know he died when the voice said 'enemy vehicle destroyed' and I know I did 13 damaging shots from the after battle results screen. (and I know he wasn't at all happy about it from the after game chat !)
 

 

Now that is an interesting point to be fair. Shame Heiden tried to twist things. 

 

Arty cant carry, that is 100% right, I dont think its possible to dispute that and comes as a result of the way it is designed to be played. Arty isn't alone in that regards. Some TD's cant carry either. I would even suggest that is incredible difficult for almost all tanks when you end up in a -2mm game at the moment, and it feels like its getting worse. Although if there is an arty that can carry or at least has more a of a chance of doing so it is the Lefefefe


Does that mean its balanced? I remain to be convinced give that you were able to shoot an enemy 13 times. That basically means you were shooting that KV-2 for over 2 minutes I think from what I know of the Lefefefefe. That's a really long time without having to make any significant adjustments to your position etc. in game for the whole of that time. So I dont think that's a valid argument with regard to stating whether the class is balanced. If anything to me it proves how broken it is. (that doesn't mean OP in my eyes by the way) just that they really need a big rework to become balanced with the rest of the game. 


Edited by Noo_Noo, 15 March 2018 - 05:47 PM.


HeidenSieker #3057 Posted 15 March 2018 - 10:01 PM

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View PostNoo_Noo, on 15 March 2018 - 04:51 PM, said:

It's not wrong though is it ( ... )?

 

Of course it is. You said "there was nothing he could have done about it". If you (now) try to take refuge in semantic prestidigitation, that's simply an admission.

HeidenSieker #3058 Posted 15 March 2018 - 10:05 PM

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View PostNoo_Noo, on 15 March 2018 - 05:02 PM, said:

Now that is an interesting point to be fair. Shame Heiden tried to twist things. 

 

Does that mean its balanced? I remain to be convinced give that you were able to shoot an enemy 13 times.

 

Come on, accusing people of "twisting" when you're so obviosly doing the same yourself, and continually doing so, won't do.

 

How often does what Sirebellus experienced happen, then, and what of the rest of SB's writing on balance? Come on, I'll be interested to hear your (straight) answer.



LordMuffin #3059 Posted 15 March 2018 - 10:46 PM

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View PostSirebellus, on 15 March 2018 - 01:02 PM, said:

 

They don't work the same though... for example KV-2 has and HE pen of 86 and Alpha of 910 and the leFH has pen of 64 and Alpha of 350.


I was playing a game on Tuesday and an opposing KV-2 had fired 5 shots, killed 4 of my team and done 3000 or so damage and lost 300 or so HP himself

 

Then he moved into an open space into the sights of my leFH so I fired at him...

my first shot did about 45HP damage and tracked him....

my second shot did about 45HP damage and kept him tracked....

my third shot did about 45HP damage and kept him tracked....

my fourth shot did about 45HP damage and kept him tracked....

my fifth shot did about 45HP damage and kept him tracked....

my sixth shot did about 45HP damage and kept him tracked....

my seventh shot did about 45HP damage and kept him tracked....

my eighth shot did about 45HP damage and kept him tracked....

my ninth shot did about 45HP damage and kept him tracked....

my tenth shot did about 45HP damage and kept him tracked....

my eleventh shot did about 45HP damage and kept him tracked....

my twelfth shot did about 45HP damage and kept him tracked....

my thirteenth shot did about 45HP damage and killed him.

 

Thirteen shots to kill him doing about 560HP damage - he did that much damage with each shot at my team - so although we were both firing HE the results were totally different, and yes the people he was shooting at could shoot him back - well if they had still been alive they could have shot back anyway

 

(thirteen shots - that's about 100 seconds of him sitting there unable to move and getting his health nibbled away - oh the insulting language that he raged at me in chat after the game was shocking... curiously though when I asked him if the 4 members of my team he had derped to death before I shot him had sent him nasty messages for killing them he changed the subject on to how he was a better player than me and I should uninstall the game and then go and kill myself...
13 shots isn't even my record, it once took me 17 shots to kill a KV1-S :trollface:)

 

Your whole post only shows how retarded arty is.



spamhamstar #3060 Posted 16 March 2018 - 12:16 PM

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View PostHeidenSieker, on 15 March 2018 - 02:24 PM, said:

 

The order of posts is obvious.

 

1) Sirebellus posted his example.

2) noonoo wrongly said "13 shots at a target that kept him perma tracked and there was nothing he could have done about it".

 

1) & nothing ever happened before that right? 

2) When are you going to get it into your head that you know practically nothing about this game?  I'm only guessing but surely even you know what perma tracked means?  The hint it in the word "perma".  Seeing as you were so impressed with Sirebellus's post I'll let him explain it to you again: "that's about 100 seconds of him sitting there unable to move".  Yet you say that noonoo is wrong for saying that he was unable to move :facepalm:







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