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spg arty feedback

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Kozzy #41 Posted 30 October 2017 - 04:34 PM

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View PostLong_Range_Sniper, on 30 October 2017 - 03:14 PM, said:

Fairly well present and rational stuff....

 

One thing I don't quite agree with that RNG helps player retention, simply because this isn't the reason I continue to play.  Is it yours?



unhappy_bunny #42 Posted 30 October 2017 - 04:46 PM

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The problem is, as with most problems, the players. Players play the game for different reasons, although most will say they want to enjoy the game. The trouble is players find different aspects of the game enjoyable and therefore anything that affects that aspect, potentially stops the player's enjoyment. 

So players that like to push, to get close in and personal, find anything that stops that tactic spoils their fun. 

Players that like to sit back and snipe, find the same.

Players that like fast runabouts, spotting and hunting down wounded enemies, the same.

Some will play for the glory of dmg and stats, others for kills and stats.

And each will claim that their way of playing is the right one.

And although other classes can spoil the fun for some, Arty can do that for all classes, so naturally Arty is deemed to be the problem.

It is never the players refusal to change their gameplay. I mean, why should they? They are right after all.



CeeDee_2 #43 Posted 30 October 2017 - 05:01 PM

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This will probably get me villified, but here goes anyway. :hiding:

 

I play artillery. Not exclusively, but I do enjoy it now and then. What do I target when I play arty?

 

1. Whichever tank is the only one I can see.

 

2. If there are multiple potential targets I roughly go down a list of enemy tanks in this sequence:

- Artillery (usually dies before I get aimed in)

- Japanese heavies (I have been TK'ed by these more than any else by a long margin).

- Heavily armored tanks other than Japanese heavies (IS-3, Defender, VK100.01(P), Maüschen, Maus, etc. You get the picture).

- The dangerous one-shot-you-are-dead ones (KV-2, JP100, FV215b-183, etc.)

- Other heavy tanks

- Mediums and (other) TD's

- Lights (usually too fast to catch, not worth the effort)

 

In many games as soon as the O-I / O-Ni / O-xx is spotted that one gets my full attention until he is dead.

 

In my humble opinion, removing artillery (which ain't gonna happen if I understand WG correctly) would also require a rebalance in the heavily armored difficult to kill tanks.

 

Regards, C.


 


Edited by CeeDee_2, 30 October 2017 - 05:03 PM.


PhooBar #44 Posted 30 October 2017 - 05:05 PM

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View PostPansenmann, on 30 October 2017 - 12:03 PM, said:

"Revert arty to pre 8.6 performance but limit it to 2 per team" (allow 2 arta platoon)

Fixed!



Long_Range_Sniper #45 Posted 30 October 2017 - 05:13 PM

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View PostKozzy, on 30 October 2017 - 03:34 PM, said:

 

One thing I don't quite agree with that RNG helps player retention, simply because this isn't the reason I continue to play.  Is it yours?

 

I'm saying that it vicariously assists with player retention. I'm not saying that the 200 Wn8 tomato thinks of RNG when they miss their shots again, and again and again.

 

This is the WN8 spread for players on the EU server, and remember that's with the current high level of RNG in the game.

 

KpuHsuJ.jpg

 

Whether you do or don't get hit/stunned by artillery has a lot of RNG in that roll of the dice. Imagine what would happen to the graph above if the better players had even more chance to show off their skills without RNG dumping on them. It's only going to go one way for the poor player.

 

With poor players making up the majority of players, I'm just offering the thought that letting them win some games they don't deserve due to RNG might help with player retention.


Edited by Long_Range_Sniper, 30 October 2017 - 05:15 PM.


_Great_Cyrus_ #46 Posted 30 October 2017 - 06:42 PM

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View PostPh3lan, on 30 October 2017 - 11:58 AM, said:

Hi all!

 

Since arty is always a hot topic please use this thread to discuss your SPG related thoughts/concerns/suggestions. Discuss away, but remember: #artylivesmatter :)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I don't think you guys even Care what we say, Is all proven.   You have the numbers!!!!

 

All you needed to do was to reduce the Arty in each team to one and remove Stun.  But   as we know ,  WG is what WG does,

Arty changes mean nothing to Paper Tanks. Still take full DMG  +  extra stun.

 

best changed implemented by myself:  Don't spend money on a company that gives no......   that Solved all my problems  :)

 


Edited by _Great_Cyrus_, 30 October 2017 - 06:48 PM.


uglycousin #47 Posted 30 October 2017 - 06:57 PM

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After being focused for the whole battle on Westfield by a Conqueror GC, and being left on under 100 HP by the scumbag, endgame he was the last one alive. A friendly TD rushed and spotted him in base, so I shot him from a distance in my T110E3. One shot. Nice and clean kill. While staying back and safe, and someone else doing the hard work of spotting the enemy. :arta:

 

I asked him after the battle if he liked my clicking. He did not. He simply replied: "idiot".

 

I insisted, he replied with nasty words. Oh, arty players.:great:


Edited by uglycousin, 30 October 2017 - 07:13 PM.


Alabamatick #48 Posted 30 October 2017 - 07:23 PM

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Well i haven't played randoms for a very long time. (no not cos of arty), but i have played onslaught and if spg stun in randoms is anything like stun in onslaught,(:angry:) then i still won't be playing randoms for a long time yer

HeidenSieker #49 Posted 30 October 2017 - 08:16 PM

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View PostPh3lan, on 30 October 2017 - 12:16 PM, said:

The old one (thread) was outdated since it referred to the "old" version of arties, but since there are a lot of individual threads being created we thought it would be a good idea to have most of the discussion in one place. This makes it easier for us as well to see what people think and gather the feedback. 

 

The people who were anti-SPG still spew their unthinking dogma, just as they did before, despite the huge changes which have made the class into a real support vehicle for team games. Discussion is pretty futile; people seem unable (or unwilling) to adapt (thats some SPG players and some players of other vehicle classes).

 

Me? SPGs are still enjoyable to play; their new role is good for the game; to play against them, and not to be frequently oneshot,  is good too.

 

View PostTankkiPoju, on 30 October 2017 - 12:34 PM, said:

All your nice new game graphics aren't going to matter at all, because 80% of map space cant be used if there is arty in the game.

 

Yet other good players have said that the only way to play when there're SPGs in the game is to "ignore" it and play a dynamic game. That'e good, isn't it

 


 

VijaCZ #50 Posted 30 October 2017 - 08:29 PM

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View PostHeidenSieker, on 30 October 2017 - 07:16 PM, said:

 

The people who were anti-SPG still spew their unthinking dogma, just as they did before, despite the huge changes which have made the class into a real support vehicle for team games. Discussion is pretty futile; people seem unable (or unwilling) to adapt (thats some SPG players and some players of other vehicle classes).

 

Me? SPGs are still enjoyable to play; their new role is good for the game; to play against them, and not to be frequently oneshot,  is good too.

 

artillery is a great evil, and from 9.18 it is even more annoying and unpleasant

HeidenSieker #51 Posted 30 October 2017 - 08:30 PM

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View PostSplittingVoid, on 30 October 2017 - 01:51 PM, said:

Well....I say it's too bloody accurate now these days. Arty definitely needs nerfs. Let me say that I've received 1000+ alpha from a BC 155 55, M 53/55, M40/43 and not to mention the premium shells of a T92 HMC for 1300+ and the obj 261 ..... all in my leopard 1. Here's the fantastic bit.....ON THE BLOODY MOVE. I mean c'mon how the hell are they able to dump shots  pin point on my back while I'm moving ?

 

Skill and a dash of luck.
 

View PostSaintMaddenus, on 30 October 2017 - 02:07 PM, said:

The LEHF and the Bishop are very accurate with little stun area.  Move at least one body length outside of any pattern and you will be most likely be missed.   Big arty are less accurate but have bigger stun radius.

 

I know you said you like playing SPGs, but there y'go, you see - AFAIK the Leffy and Bishop cannot stun at all. Am I right?

 

As I said in this thread very recently, changes in playstyle and up-to-date thinking are necessary.

 

Perhaps WG could put together some sort of educational document re the new-style SPGs?

 

View Posttrispect, on 30 October 2017 - 02:12 PM, said:

Not sure if serious... Since arty mechanic is still the same as when they first were introduced in the game peoples' thoughts haven't really changed. Well a bit since you guys introduced additional griefing mechanic for this class (stun).

 

Come now old chap, can you list the other game changes that were made, as well as the addition of stun? Hm? It would be nice to hear what you know.
 

View PostLong_Range_Sniper, on 30 October 2017 - 04:14 PM, said:

Where you get the bad "rep" is you also get players who say things like this below.

View PostzeroXgiven, on 06 November 2016 - 03:47 AM, said:

P.S. I play arty cus i like to wreck crap and i suck and Tier X with normal tanks.

 

"06 November 2016"


 

Edited by Jbnn, 01 November 2017 - 09:41 AM.


xX_Erwin_Von_Braun_Xx #52 Posted 30 October 2017 - 08:49 PM

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View PostHeidenSieker, on 30 October 2017 - 08:34 PM, said:

Perhaps WG could put together some sort of educational document re the new-style SPGs?

 

In other discussion I am asking about marks of excellence. You do not have more than one for your artillery. Do you think the educational document should cover the artillery you play? Please do not drown again like last conversation.



Pansenmann #53 Posted 30 October 2017 - 11:30 PM

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View PostPhooBar, on 30 October 2017 - 05:05 PM, said:

View PostPansenmann, on 30 October 2017 - 12:03 PM, said:

"Revert arty to pre 8.6 performance but limit it to 2 per team" (allow 2 arta platoon)

Fixed!

 

I would rather not suggest the possibility of a (LeFH platoon. :ohmy:

that might even be banned by UN treaty, have to look that up.

you know, forbidden torture techniques etc. sometimes even incorporating fish.

 

there have been mentioned numerous approaches and ideas

to past and current issues with the artillery class -

 

something that was probably discussed earlier but floated my mind:

 

  • limit to 1 per team :great:
  • decrease shell velocity by 50% :trollface:

and maybe add a sort of overlay to enemy team when fired for a duration of about 1 to 3 seconds

  • increase reload by 50% ;)
  • increase splash radius by 50% :justwait:
  • increase damage by 10% starting for tier 5 to 4% to tier 10
  • set damage dropoff by simply applying 1/r3 :child:
  • add stun to all artillery vehicles when shooting HE  :arta:
  • return AP, HEAT ammunition, without stun and splash component for a reasonable price :coin:

with a reasonable but not overpowered penetration value, taking gun arc into account.

  • add cluster mines, smoke bombs and HESH, where applicable. :popcorn:
  • have artillery need a set-up time similar to swedish special mode :bush:

and add proper vehicle model animation

  • set stun time to [$tier] seconds :B
  • artillery should not be top tier unless +1/-1 MM :honoring:

 

 

 

anything to add?


Edited by Pansenmann, 30 October 2017 - 11:45 PM.


ColdSteel__ #54 Posted 31 October 2017 - 12:13 AM

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if they took arty away ill probably stop playing !

the last few months all Im playing is arty , why ,  cause games are over in 5 minutes , wham bam , its all over. where are the days of tactical gameplay ? , gone

 



_Great_Cyrus_ #55 Posted 31 October 2017 - 12:41 AM

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View PostColdSteel__, on 31 October 2017 - 12:13 AM, said:

if they took arty away ill probably stop playing !

the last few months all Im playing is arty , why ,  cause games are over in 5 minutes , wham bam , its all over. where are the days of tactical gameplay ? , gone

 

 

A good Arty game is a long game ,  So if the Games are over in 5 min what is it to Enjoy?

 

Arty has its place but not 3 Arty in each team....

One Arty each team is enough.  It was more enjoyable for me to play Art before Stun...............

 

To be fair , there are more problems  in this game than Arty , MM  in tier 6 &  specially in tier 8 is a No go.


Edited by _Great_Cyrus_, 31 October 2017 - 12:42 AM.


ZlatanArKung #56 Posted 31 October 2017 - 01:17 AM

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View PostHeidenSieker, on 30 October 2017 - 08:16 PM, said:

 

The people who were anti-SPG still spew their unthinking dogma, just as they did before, despite the huge changes which have made the class into a real support vehicle for team games. Discussion is pretty futile; people seem unable (or unwilling) to adapt (thats some SPG players and some players of other vehicle classes).

 

Me? SPGs are still enjoyable to play; their new role is good for the game; to play against them, and not to be frequently oneshot,  is good too.

 

Arty is not a good supporting class.

 

1: The support is unreliable

2: You don't even know if arty will support you.

 

View PostColdSteel__, on 31 October 2017 - 12:13 AM, said:

if they took arty away ill probably stop playing !

the last few months all Im playing is arty , why ,  cause games are over in 5 minutes , wham bam , its all over. where are the days of tactical gameplay ? , gone

 

Claiming that short games lack tactics is just wrong 

There is just as much tactics in short as in long games.


 

Sfinski #57 Posted 31 October 2017 - 07:04 AM

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View PostPh3lan, on 30 October 2017 - 01:16 PM, said:

 

The old one was outdated since it referred to the "old" version of arties, but since there are a lot of individual threads being created we thought it would be a good idea to have most of the discussion in one place. This makes it easier for us as well to see what people think and gather the feedback. 

And that took you half a year...



Hammerhead20 #58 Posted 31 October 2017 - 10:24 AM

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Since you created a new thread about SPG's, can we finally remove those things from the game?

Wayneable #59 Posted 31 October 2017 - 10:39 AM

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Here is an idea, instead of whining about arty so much, why not get to the real problem - XVM . I will beat that if WG blocked this mod, alot of people would notice a difference in the game right away, with out XVM most players would not be able to XVM focus the good players.

 

Now some people will never be happy until WG remove arty ( like that will ever happen.), but come on guys be honest,  don't you think blocking of XVM from the game would help alot?



SlyMeerkat #60 Posted 31 October 2017 - 11:12 AM

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View PostWayneable, on 31 October 2017 - 09:39 AM, said:

Here is an idea, instead of whining about arty so much, why not get to the real problem - XVM . I will beat that if WG blocked this mod, alot of people would notice a difference in the game right away, with out XVM most players would not be able to XVM focus the good players.

 

Now some people will never be happy until WG remove arty ( like that will ever happen.), but come on guys be honest,  don't you think blocking of XVM from the game would help alot?

 

Agreed

Edited by SlyMeerkat, 31 October 2017 - 11:12 AM.






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