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Zinomov #5281 Posted 12 July 2018 - 03:38 PM

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the arty damage is not even worth a mousquito sting, we want more damage per shot
in fact the arty is more OP now with its continuous stun capabilities

take an arty with a small caliber gun, and you'll be stunning like its no tomorrow and that is annoying

Alice_Shimada_Chan #5282 Posted 12 July 2018 - 04:19 PM

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Thanks for answers on last page. Ill try that american arties.

Erwin_Von_Braun #5283 Posted 12 July 2018 - 07:12 PM

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View PostSimeon85, on 12 July 2018 - 10:21 AM, said:

 

People want an OP premium simple as that.

 

Again, clasp for straws as much as you like that it means something for arty (pretty sad really how you cling onto anything that puts your sad hated clicker mobile in a good light), but note that both arty are losing the TOTT vote and are losing to some bad tanks as well, so the 'silent minority' doesn't seem so keen on those SPGs when they aren't game breakingly OP. 

 

:D

 

Also have you contacted Victor yet?

 

:D

 

OP Prem? Have you even looked at it's numbers?

I think there is only one of us clutching at straws here pal and it isn't me - maybe people just don't like the arty that's on offer in the ToTT?

However, I do feel sorry for you - must be unpleasant having everything you believe in thrown back in your face.:)


 



Long_Range_Sniper #5284 Posted 12 July 2018 - 08:22 PM

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View PostErwin_Von_Braun, on 12 July 2018 - 06:12 PM, said:

OP Prem? Have you even looked at it's numbers?

I think there is only one of us clutching at straws here pal and it isn't me - maybe people just don't like the arty that's on offer in the ToTT?

 

If you'd like a straw to break the hump on your back the chart below explains why the LefH is OP.

 

Lef_H.jpg

 

 

However, I do feel sorry for you. It must be unpleasant having everything you thought was correct thrown back in you face



LordMuffin #5285 Posted 13 July 2018 - 05:39 AM

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View PostLong_Range_Sniper, on 12 July 2018 - 08:22 PM, said:

 

If you'd like a straw to break the hump on your back the chart below explains why the LefH is OP.

 

Lef_H.jpg

 

 

However, I do feel sorry for you. It must be unpleasant having everything you thought was correct thrown back in you face

You might face an incorrect interpretation of his words... take care. 



vasilinhorulezz #5286 Posted 13 July 2018 - 07:44 AM

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Arty, so much fun!!!

 

http://wotreplays.eu...lezz-object_705

 



Simeon85 #5287 Posted 13 July 2018 - 08:46 AM

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View PostErwin_Von_Braun, on 12 July 2018 - 07:12 PM, said:

 

OP Prem? Have you even looked at it's numbers?

I think there is only one of us clutching at straws here pal and it isn't me - maybe people just don't like the arty that's on offer in the ToTT?

However, I do feel sorry for you - must be unpleasant having everything you believe in thrown back in your face.:)


 

 

See below.......

 

View PostLong_Range_Sniper, on 12 July 2018 - 08:22 PM, said:

 

If you'd like a straw to break the hump on your back the chart below explains why the LefH is OP.

 

Lef_H.jpg

 

 

However, I do feel sorry for you. It must be unpleasant having everything you thought was correct thrown back in you face

 

:D:D:D:D

 

:B

 

Sometimes I feel this is just too easy. 

 

Just in case some of the most OP win rate curves around aren't enough, I'll quote myself from another topic -

 

View PostSimeon85, on 09 July 2018 - 04:03 PM, said:

View PostEnforcer1975, on 09 July 2018 - 03:29 PM, said:

 

Define as broken AF.....the only thing it has going for it is the rof. pen on AP and HEAT is useless in most cases. It's slow and has no armor. VR is nice an all but not really useful unless you have a nice open field in front of you. 

 

Well for a start -

 

Posted Image

 

That is like Defender/Bobject levels of OP.

 

Then there is stuff like it has more than twice the DPM of other tier 5 arties, or that is has old school arty accuracy/aim time/dispersion.

 

Or that is is basically a Bishop but has high tier arty range (900m IIRC). 

 

Or that it has the best gun traverse range of any tier 5 arty, which coupled with fast aim time and much lower dispersion means it is much faster aiming than all the others. 

 

And you can get the reload down to 7.5s.  Which is pretty much the same as the M4 Sherman with the derp, except it has 40 more alpha, and the same penetration, but its an arty so gets to fire safely from base. 

 

And it has the joint 2nd best view range of any tank on tiers 5-7, and the clear best on it's tier.

 

And it has the best penetration of any tier 5 arty, being about 50% better than the others and better than several tier 8 artilleries. 

 

Do you need anything else? It's premium ammo that has seen several nerfs to the class overall that it basically was exmept from.

 

It shouldn't be sold. 

 

 

We can also add 2nd highest global win rate of all tier 5 vehicles as well - http://www.vbaddict.net/statistics.php?tier=5&tanktype=0&nation=0&premium=0&modeid=0&team=0&battles=1000&groupby=0&fieldname=won_lost_ratio&server=

 

Highest damage dealer of all tier 5 vehicles - http://www.vbaddict.net/statistics.php?tier=5&tanktype=0&nation=0&premium=0&modeid=0&team=0&battles=1000&groupby=0&fieldname=damage_dealt&server=

 

Not just higher but it's actually 25% better than the next best damage dealer on tier 5 and it would be 3rd highest damage dealer even when compared to tier 6 tanks! Does more average damage than the Rudy and KV-2  :D It even does more average damage than 21 tier 7 vehicles including tanks like the Tiger 1. 

 

Erwin_Von_Braun, on 12 July 2018 - 07:12 PM, said:

 OP Prem? Have you even looked at it's numbers?

 

Yes, you clearly haven't :D

 

Erwin_Von_Braun, on 12 July 2018 - 07:12 PM, said:

 I think there is only one of us clutching at straws here pal and it isn't me

 

The above says otherwise :D

 

One of the most OP premiums in the game, that has not been sold for at least two years maybe even more, hmmmn I wonder why people are voting for it.

 

Erwin_Von_Braun, on 12 July 2018 - 07:12 PM, said:

 maybe people just don't like the arty that's on offer in the ToTT?

 

No they just don't like arty, which the evidence consistently shows.

 

I mean even the Rhm. Panzerwagon got more votes than the arty and that is one of the worst tanks in the game, it's horrifically under powered -

 

Posted Image

 

But people would still prefer to have a terrible light tank as TOTT than an arty. 

 


Edited by Simeon85, 13 July 2018 - 08:50 AM.


spamhamstar #5288 Posted 13 July 2018 - 09:38 AM

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View PostMike_Mckay, on 12 July 2018 - 02:19 PM, said:

As arty is heavily dependant on your team I always assumed it was there as a balancing class of vehicle



I used to play a naval strategy board game where the most powerful marker was the submarine, and the only thing that killed it was the minelayer which was one of the weakest pieces on the board, without which submarines would have just owned everything else in the game every time

 



So at a guess I would say arty is there to negate tanks like the super heavies initially. But with power creep perhaps they have ceased to be so necessary much of the time, although pre nerf I was EXTREMELY happy to have arty on my team when the enemy had three pre nerfed 268-4s


As for what it shows, well for me it shows that as arty doesn't feature in the TOTT I WILL buy a premium arty to speed up crew training if I get the chance, and more so because its not a class of vehicle I play very much so the crews are quite lacklustre. But if it makes a lot of cry babies wail incessantly I wont lie, that's just an added side benefit


But if they were regularly rotated in the TOTT events it wouldn't be as important to get a premium arty in the first place due to how infrequently I would play arty outside of the necessity of grinding them all to tier 10 which I'm in no real rush to do


Oh yeah, as for who is claiming "everyone hates arty", youre mostly right, although some arty despisers have also claimed that "nobody" likes arty meaning they don't, and just assume everyone else thinks the same DESPITE there being three of them in a huge percentage of games as cognitive dissonance seems to be the new black in the millennial era

But I fail to see why you felt the urge to respond to my post with that diatribe seeing as I was already disagreeing with the claim that "everyone" hates arty to begin with irrespective of whom or on which side of the coin someone is who makes it

So saying basically the exact same thing in a disagreeable fashion really doesn't seem to make much sense outside of being disagreeable purely for the sake of being disagreeable of course
 

 

A balancing class of vehicle?  So what exactly is it that you think arty is balancing?  Super heavies that it can barely damage any more?  or light tanks that are already more than balanced by med tanks, but arty can still 1 shot them?  Perhaps you mean that arty balances skill?  Or balances those that want to play the game & not just camp at the back unspotted?

 

Fortunately there are no pre-nerf 268-4s in the game any more, so perhaps it's time arty went as well?  If you noticed tho, it was the WG balancing dept that balanced the 268-4 & not arty & this was mainly due to complaints from the player base about it being OP, supported by statistical evidence of the type shown by LRS in regard to the Lefh.  So it appears that WG do not need arty to balance OP tanks & lets face it, the chances of your friendly arty actually focusing OP/broken tanks are not good when there are lightly armoured targets available they can still hit for around 1k dmg.

 

I'm entirely right about "everyone hating arty" being a claim mainly made by those defending arty these days.  If you check back you'll notice it was yourself & Erwin who were discussing this, again.  Both arty defenders, which is why I called you on it.  If not, why were you "correcting" Erwin on something you both agree on?  I could similarly argue that there are too many arty in the game as there used to be no limit on their numbers per battle.  You see, that's something that happened once upon a time as well, much like you lot claiming someone who dislikes arty once said that "everyone hates arty" & then holding everyone who hates arty responsible for that to this day.

 

I couldn't care less if you buy the lefh or not as it's highly unlikely that I'll ever encounter you specifically in battle.  However, WG again putting cash in front of the good of the game by putting a clearly OP tank on sale again should be an issue for all of us.  I'm sure there'd be people who would be delighted if they put the defender on sale again & I have no doubt it would win any vote if they gave us the option.  Nobody is claiming that this would mean that heavy tanks are suddenly more popular than any other class tho, or that it'd be good for tier 8 mm or skirmishes or clan wars.


Edited by spamhamstar, 13 July 2018 - 09:41 AM.


Element6 #5289 Posted 13 July 2018 - 09:52 AM

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I wonder what the ratio is between the people who buy the lefH due to it being rarely on sale and the ones who buy it because it is a strong SPG. I find it hard to believe that every customer fall into one of these two categories.

spamhamstar #5290 Posted 13 July 2018 - 10:01 AM

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View PostElement6_TheSprout, on 13 July 2018 - 08:52 AM, said:

I wonder what the ratio is between the people who buy the lefH due to it being rarely on sale and the ones who buy it because it is a strong SPG. I find it hard to believe that every customer fall into one of these two categories.

 

Those are the same category anyway as it's rarely on sale due to it being OP.  I expect that pretty much everyone voting for it is doing so for that reason.

Mike_Mckay #5291 Posted 13 July 2018 - 10:26 AM

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View Postspamhamstar, on 13 July 2018 - 08:38 AM, said:

 

A balancing class of vehicle?  So what exactly is it that you think arty is balancing?  Super heavies that it can barely damage any more?  or light tanks that are already more than balanced by med tanks, but arty can still 1 shot them?  Perhaps you mean that arty balances skill?  Or balances those that want to play the game & not just camp at the back unspotted?

 

Fortunately there are no pre-nerf 268-4s in the game any more, so perhaps it's time arty went as well?  If you noticed tho, it was the WG balancing dept that balanced the 268-4 & not arty & this was mainly due to complaints from the player base about it being OP, supported by statistical evidence of the type shown by LRS in regard to the Lefh.  So it appears that WG do not need arty to balance OP tanks & lets face it, the chances of your friendly arty actually focusing OP/broken tanks are not good when there are lightly armoured targets available they can still hit for around 1k dmg.

 

I'm entirely right about "everyone hating arty" being a claim mainly made by those defending arty these days.  If you check back you'll notice it was yourself & Erwin who were discussing this, again.  Both arty defenders, which is why I called you on it.  If not, why were you "correcting" Erwin on something you both agree on?  I could similarly argue that there are too many arty in the game as there used to be no limit on their numbers per battle.  You see, that's something that happened once upon a time as well, much like you lot claiming someone who dislikes arty once said that "everyone hates arty" & then holding everyone who hates arty responsible for that to this day.

 

I couldn't care less if you buy the lefh or not as it's highly unlikely that I'll ever encounter you specifically in battle.  However, WG again putting cash in front of the good of the game by putting a clearly OP tank on sale again should be an issue for all of us.  I'm sure there'd be people who would be delighted if they put the defender on sale again & I have no doubt it would win any vote if they gave us the option.  Nobody is claiming that this would mean that heavy tanks are suddenly more popular than any other class tho, or that it'd be good for tier 8 mm or skirmishes or clan wars.

 

Hmm, well although arty isn't "as" effective at outright killing super heavies and breakthrough tanks now it also hasn't been reduced to merely tickling them either and a penetrating shot can still take a huge chunk of their health with each shot but if used prior to allies swarming one the stun mechanics still make them extremely useful for tackling them

The fact that some people wont shoot what YOU want them to shoot or even what makes more sense for them to shoot isn't the fault of the vehicle class nor whatever its intended role in the game is, that's purely down to the player. I regularly see light tanks hiding well behind the front lines instead of scouting, that doesn't mean I think light tanks should be removed because of that however.

As for not thinking the defender should be put on sale again I notice you didn't feel so strongly against them being detrimental to the game that you sold your 252U, so what you really mean there is that nobody ELSE should be able to buy one now that you have yours I guess yes?


Me personally, I see it differently, if even one person has a tank then EVERYONE should have the chance to get it. If the tank is deemed SOOOO bad for the game it shouldn't be sold then absolutely EVERYONE should be denied that tank as we saw with the WTF E 100. They didn't just stop "new" people having one, they stopped EVERYONE from having one.

Edited by Mike_Mckay, 13 July 2018 - 10:30 AM.


spamhamstar #5292 Posted 13 July 2018 - 10:44 AM

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View PostMike_Mckay, on 13 July 2018 - 09:26 AM, said:

 

Hmm, well although arty isn't "as" effective at outright killing super heavies and breakthrough tanks now it also hasn't been reduced to merely tickling them either and a penetrating shot can still take a huge chunk of their health with each shot but if used prior to allies swarming one the stun mechanics still make them extremely useful for tackling them

As for not thinking the defender should be put on sale again I notice you didn't feel so strongly against them being detrimental to the game that you sold your 252U, so what you really mean there is that nobody ELSE should be able to buy one now that you have yours I guess yes?


Me personally, I see it differently, if even one person has a tank then EVERYONE should have the chance to get it. If the tank is deemed SOOOO bad for the game it shouldn't be sold then absolutely EVERYONE should be denied that tank as we saw with the WTF E 100. They didn't just stop "new" people having one, they stopped EVERYONE from having one.
 

 

The difference between the WT auf E100 & any premium tank is that nobody paid money for the WT so they could just replace it without having to offer any financial compensation.  If you remember they replaced the WT with the Grille, which then required nerfing to balance it after it was intially released completely OP.  If they were to remove the defender they'd have to compensate everyone that bought it which is why WG are so reluctant to nerf/remove premium tanks.

 

Yes I own the 252U & if you check my stats in it compared to my stats in the IS3, or overall, you'll see exactly why it shouldn't be put on sale again.  If you prefer you can also check the server stats for the defender & you'll again see why it shouldn't be sold again.  By your argument all prem tanks should be available all the time in the prem shop, as they were available to some people at 1 point.  I should also be able to purchase any tank that was previously removed from the game, but still remains in the game, such as both the british tier 10 FV's that were replaced.  I can't tho can I?  I should also be able to play the unnerfed 268-4 for a couple of months if I unlocked it before facing the same nerf that everyone who got it on day 1 did eventually.  That'd be fair right?



Element6 #5293 Posted 13 July 2018 - 10:50 AM

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Apparently I have bought something because it was strong, because I bought it as it was rare :confused:

 

#strangersontheinternetknowmymotivationsbetterthanmyself



Simeon85 #5294 Posted 13 July 2018 - 10:59 AM

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View PostElement6_TheSprout, on 13 July 2018 - 10:50 AM, said:

Apparently I have bought something because it was strong, because I bought it as it was rare :confused:

 

#strangersontheinternetknowmymotivationsbetterthanmyself

 

The LeFH is both strong and rare so both are logical reasons why people would buy it.

 

It's one of the most OP tanks in the game AND it hasn't been on sale for a very long time. 

 

Again it's also logical that those two reasons would likely trump 'it's an SPG' especially based on the TOTT result and general other feedback regarding arty. 

 

Even if you put aside the arty hate for one moment, it is very clear that a lot of people do not find artillery that appealing, hence it's low play rate compared to the other classes. If you had a poll for say 5 premiums on sale all average prems of similar power level, that had all been on sale before and recently, it's unlikely the SPG would win.

 

So add it all together and the amount of people buying it 'because it's a premium SPG' are likely to be in a minority compared to the people buying it because it's OP and hasn't been on sale before. 

 

If the Defender had been on that list, then that would have won, people want the most forbidden fruit. 


Edited by Simeon85, 13 July 2018 - 11:03 AM.


Mike_Mckay #5295 Posted 13 July 2018 - 11:03 AM

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View Postspamhamstar, on 13 July 2018 - 09:44 AM, said:

 

 

The difference between the WT auf E100 & any premium tank is that nobody paid money for the WT so they could just replace it without having to offer any financial compensation.  If you remember they replaced the WT with the Grille, which then required nerfing to balance it after it was intially released completely OP.  If they were to remove the defender they'd have to compensate everyone that bought it which is why WG are so reluctant to nerf/remove premium tanks.

 

Yes I own the 252U & if you check my stats in it compared to my stats in the IS3, or overall, you'll see exactly why it shouldn't be put on sale again.  If you prefer you can also check the server stats for the defender & you'll again see why it shouldn't be sold again.  By your argument all prem tanks should be available all the time in the prem shop, as they were available to some people at 1 point.  I should also be able to purchase any tank that was previously removed from the game, but still remains in the game, such as both the british tier 10 FV's that were replaced.  I can't tho can I?  I should also be able to play the unnerfed 268-4 for a couple of months if I unlocked it before facing the same nerf that everyone who got it on day 1 did eventually.  That'd be fair right?

 

Whilst I agree that having to give refunds is most probably at least part of why they wont remove the defender that doesn't alter what the "right" thing to do would be. But it does show that money is favoured above the game too like that should come as a surprise to anyone by now lol


As for the stats, I don't think I have ever put a 100% crew in mine unless they were within 1% of finishing off a crew skill as with most of my premiums barring the tanks that come with BIA crews as I have purchased several of those for each nation that has them and generally with bundles for x5 XP boosters. So my Tiger 131 and ISU 122S are a different kettle of fish entirely to my defender as I tend to train my BIA crews until the x5s run out but generally just do 1 a day so even without checking I'm pretty sure I do far worse in my defender than I do even in the rather quirky and very situational and quite inferior 122s


But I would no more claim me doing below average in mine is a reason to keep it than you doing well in yours is a reason to remove it. Theres more than enough of them around that "if" theyre so impactive they will therefore "ruin" as that's technically the claim, the experience in quite a number of games per day. So that can be equalised by extending the experience (or the chance of it as its a bought vehicle) to everyone to level the playing field in that way or by removing it completely.


But saying "hey, this tank is so OP we aren't going to let anyone ELSE have it" whilst allowing those that already do to retain it is IMO the worst and least ethical choice there is not leastly because its based purely on greed over the game itself

As for the "WTF" not being bought, I am sure many people used gold to get to theirs not to mention the time which lets face it is a FAR more valuable resource than mere money and whom wouldn't have expended either to get the grille. So just because its a tech tree tank doesn't mean its attained without "cost". So that's quite a vapid argument really As the time it takes me to earn the money even for a supreme bundle is 2-3 hours whereas the time it would take me to earn the XP just for the tier 10 in any line is far more than that

 


Edited by Mike_Mckay, 13 July 2018 - 11:09 AM.


spamhamstar #5296 Posted 13 July 2018 - 11:08 AM

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View PostElement6_TheSprout, on 13 July 2018 - 09:50 AM, said:

Apparently I have bought something because it was strong, because I bought it as it was rare :confused:

 

#strangersontheinternetknowmymotivationsbetterthanmyself

 

So it's just a coincidence that you have a 67.57% win rate & 1691 WN8 in the lefh then :D  Not broken at all.

 

View PostSimeon85, on 13 July 2018 - 09:59 AM, said:

 

The LeFH is both strong and rare so both are logical reasons why people would buy it.

 

It's one of the most OP tanks in the game AND it hasn't been on sale for a very long time. 

 

Again it's also logical that those two reasons would likely trump 'it's an SPG' especially based on the TOTT result and general other feedback regarding arty. 

 

Even if you put aside the arty hate for one moment, it is very clear that a lot of people do not find artillery that appealing, hence it's low play rate compared to the other classes. 

 

So add it all together and the amount of people buying it 'because it's a premium SPG' are likely to be in a minority compared to the people buying it because it's OP and hasn't been on sale before. 

 

Oh ffs, it's rare because it is strong, so it's the same <edited> reason.  The reason the Lefh is currently so strong is precisely because it is a prem tank & because of that WG couldn't nerf it when they did every other non-prem arty.  This is the same reason that WG are now cashing in on it by blaming us for "wanting" it back on sale again, even if it's going to be awful for tier 5 mm.



malaquey #5297 Posted 13 July 2018 - 11:11 AM

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It's like some people are in denial, the fact is, that tier 5 premium is winning the voting because it's OP. if defender was on that list, guess which vehicle will be winning? or is it maybe because there are less heavy tank haters and more heavy tank lovers? ridiculous assessment.

 

it's a shame people who defend arty are using this blatant money grab from WG to justify a broken class such as arty.



fwhaatpiraat #5298 Posted 13 July 2018 - 11:28 AM

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Trying to get the third mark on m53/m55 on a friends's account, this weekend :)

Element6 #5299 Posted 13 July 2018 - 11:39 AM

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Apparently someone out there thinks that buying a tank because (I.E the reason for the purchase) it's rare and not because it's strong means the same as having the opinion that it's not OP. How someone can reach that conclusion is beyond me.

 

Someone can listen about apples and oranges and get mental images of peaches. It is amazing.



spamhamstar #5300 Posted 13 July 2018 - 12:26 PM

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View PostElement6_TheSprout, on 13 July 2018 - 10:39 AM, said:

Apparently someone out there thinks that buying a tank because (I.E the reason for the purchase) it's rare and not because it's strong means the same as having the opinion that it's not OP. How someone can reach that conclusion is beyond me.

 

Someone can listen about apples and oranges and get mental images of peaches. It is amazing.

 

Pffft, & some dumbass players can't seem to grasp the very simple concept that it's rare because it's OP, so you buying it because it's rare its exactly the same thing as buying it because it's OP.  You've argued yourself about WGs policy of building demand for tanks that are OP, yet now this doesn't apply because it suits your argument at them moment, whatever that may be.  It's quite simple really, WG don't have it in the prem shop all the time because it's a pre-rebalance arty.  This is the exact same reason that's it's won the vote & the same reason that you bought it.  That you want to split hairs to somehow make yourself feel better for purchasing it, is laughable.  It's rare because it's broken, so you bought it because it's rare but not because it's broken.  Erm ok, but surely you must accept that if it was properly balanced there'd be no reason for it not to be on sale all the time, in which case it wouldn't have been rare, so you wouldn't have bought it because it was rare?

 

I do love the way you think you're not replying to my posts, just because you haven't quoted them.  You really are too funny.







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