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Super Conq.

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fanta_freake #1 Posted 01 November 2017 - 05:20 PM

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Am i the only thinking, the super conq. is broken AF?

speedphlux #2 Posted 01 November 2017 - 05:22 PM

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Well, I don't think it's broken, so that makes one of you ... So far.

Derethim #3 Posted 01 November 2017 - 05:23 PM

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The cupola should definitely be easier to pen, otherwise it's fine.

Sides could be weaker a tiny bit, maybe. The FV215 is supposed to be the sidescraper it's not, while the Squnk can sidescrape pretty well in comparison.



brumbarr #4 Posted 01 November 2017 - 05:26 PM

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I think its fine, it is good when in a defenseive position, but it is terrible at moving up. It has a big weakspot pennable for everyone and the side armor isnt too crazy. 

ares354 #5 Posted 01 November 2017 - 05:31 PM

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SQ is way better then FV 215, he can sidecrape better, has less weakspot, upper plate is better then FV 215, gun dep is better, same dpm, no fuel tank and engine in front.

SQ is too good. He dont have any weakness of FV 215, and only 2 things are worse in SQ, aim time and 10 meter less view range. It's crap balance, and SQ is OP as WZ 5a. 

Edited by ares354, 01 November 2017 - 05:35 PM.


Derethim #6 Posted 01 November 2017 - 05:33 PM

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View Postares354, on 01 November 2017 - 05:31 PM, said:

SQ is way better then FV 215, he can sidecrape better, has less weakspot, upper plate is better then FV 215, gun dep is better, same dpm, no fuel tank and engine in front.

SQ is too good. He dont have any weakness of FV 215, and only 2 things are worse in SQ, aim time and 10 meter less view range. It't crapbalance, and SQ is OP as WZ 5a. 

 

Or maybe, the FV is just too bad.

The Squnk is way less powerful than the Maus, the E100, the Type 5, but the FV is just a fail, especially the upperplate.



ares354 #7 Posted 01 November 2017 - 05:39 PM

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View PostDerethim, on 01 November 2017 - 05:33 PM, said:

 

Or maybe, the FV is just too bad.

The Squnk is way less powerful than the Maus, the E100, the Type 5, but the FV is just a fail, especially the upperplate.

 

E100 is more powerfull >? No way, E100 turret is butter for HEAT, vs SQ you need to aim close to gun or under gun. E100 is slow, and second ammo is HEAT with bad acc. SQ get APCR and gun has insane stats. 

And again, you take tanks with way, way worse guns in compere. Those tanks need good armor ,and well vs premium ammo, E100 and Maus armor from close range sucks. Only Type 5 can overnagle and still bounce some APCR from SQ czo WG cant add strong point and tank and proper wekaspots.  

Yea FV upper plate is bad, but that dont say much. SQ is too good, just like WZ 5a. E5 has no POINT in game if SQ is like that. 

Edited by ares354, 01 November 2017 - 05:40 PM.


MrConway #8 Posted 01 November 2017 - 05:39 PM

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View Postares354, on 01 November 2017 - 05:31 PM, said:

SQ is way better then FV 215, he can sidecrape better, has less weakspot, upper plate is better then FV 215, gun dep is better, same dpm, no fuel tank and engine in front.

SQ is too good. He dont have any weakness of FV 215, and only 2 things are worse in SQ, aim time and 10 meter less view range. It's crap balance, and SQ is OP as WZ 5a. 

 

So far I find it good from my experience, but not too good. The lower front plate can be consistently penned, but it is a beast when hull-down.

 

Stats will tell if it needs so tweaks, we need to give it a bit of time though.



brumbarr #9 Posted 01 November 2017 - 05:42 PM

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View Postares354, on 01 November 2017 - 05:39 PM, said:

 

E100 is more powerfull >? No way, E100 turret is butter for HEAT, vs SQ you need to aim close to gun or under gun. E100 is slow, and second ammo is HEAT with bad acc. SQ get APCR and gun has insane stats. 

And again, you take tanks with way, way worse guns in compere. Those tanks need good armor ,and well vs premium ammo, E100 and Maus armor from close range sucks. Only Type 5 can overnagle and still bounce some APCR from SQ czo WG cant add strong point and tank and proper wekaspots.  

Yea FV upper plate is bad, but that dont say much. SQ is too good, just like WZ 5a. E5 has no POINT in game if SQ is like that. 

 

WZ5A is actually perfectly balanced:

Posted Image

Its the maus that is overperforming, not the 5A.



ares354 #10 Posted 01 November 2017 - 05:45 PM

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View PostMrConway, on 01 November 2017 - 05:39 PM, said:

 

So far I find it good from my experience, but not too good. The lower front plate can be consistently penned, but it is a beast when hull-down.

 

Stats will tell if it needs so tweaks, we need to give it a bit of time though.

 

You as WG always say stats will tell. 

Stats tell that Tiger 2 for years is crap, and what WG DID ? Nothing. 

Do stats tell that 263 is bad ? Because low popularity of line come from bad tanks like tier 7, 8 and 9, no 10, 10 is beast for many players and very fun tank to play. 

@Brumbarr last four weeks for tier 10 HT http://wot-news.com/...ver/eu/norm/en 

E100 under 47% WR,FV 2315 and E5 as well bad. WZ 5a in top 3. 
 

Edited by ares354, 01 November 2017 - 05:51 PM.


Anxter_ #11 Posted 01 November 2017 - 05:48 PM

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View PostDerethim, on 01 November 2017 - 04:33 PM, said:

 

Or maybe, the FV is just too bad.

 

The tbh, it makes sense not to give the conqueror as many weaknesses as the 215b because it was just crap. 

 

And no, the super conqueror doesn't appear to be overpowered at all. The gun is amazing, sure and the hulldown is very very strong, but it doesn't really have any staying power outside of the hulldown because the lower plate is so bad and you have to expose it while sidescraping and the side really doesn't stand up against type 5 heavies or E-100s spamming HE. It's good, but it isn't retard proof and it's perfectly beatable in most tanks that aren't just underpowered atm.

 

The only question I have is why the STB-1, leopard and especially the 121b are allowed to exist in this state. WG vastly overestimates the value of mobility.



AvengerOrion #12 Posted 01 November 2017 - 05:53 PM

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What I read is: "QQ I can't autopen roflstomp british HTs anymore QQ"

ares354 #13 Posted 01 November 2017 - 05:54 PM

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View PostAnxter_, on 01 November 2017 - 05:48 PM, said:

 

The tbh, it makes sense not to give the conqueror as many weaknesses as the 215b because it was just crap. 

 

And no, the super conqueror doesn't appear to be overpowered at all. The gun is amazing, sure and the hulldown is very very strong, but it doesn't really have any staying power outside of the hulldown because the lower plate is so bad and you have to expose it while sidescraping and the side really doesn't stand up against type 5 heavies or E-100s spamming HE. It's good, but it isn't retard proof and it's perfectly beatable in most tanks that aren't just underpowered atm.

 

The only question I have is why the STB-1, leopard and especially the 121b are allowed to exist in this state. WG vastly overestimates the value of mobility.

 

E5 dont have any staying power outside hulldown and if you keep your BIG weakspot hidden, and still SQ is better then E5 in almost everything. 

Why all of you try to compere SQ to super heavy tanks like E100, Type 5 and Maus, if we have tank like IS 4, E5, 113, IS 7. Compere him to E5, and see how much better he is. 

For AP ammo SQ weakspot on turret is not wekaspot at all, only HEAT pen it...

MrConway #14 Posted 01 November 2017 - 05:55 PM

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View Postares354, on 01 November 2017 - 05:45 PM, said:

 

You as WG always say stats will tell. 

Stats tell that Tiger 2 for years is crap, and what WG DID ? Nothing. 

Do stats tell that 263 is bad ? Because low popularity of line come from bad tanks like tier 7, 8 and 9, no 10, 10 is beast for many players and very fun tank to play. 

@Brumbarr last four weeks for tier 10 HT http://wot-news.com/...ver/eu/norm/en 

E100 under 47% WR,FV 2315 and E5 as well bad. WZ 5a in top 3. 
 

 

We're currently doing all the re-balancing and I hope and think that we will also look at the Tiger II as it is one of my favourite tanks!

 

View PostAnxter_, on 01 November 2017 - 05:48 PM, said:

 

The tbh, it makes sense not to give the conqueror as many weaknesses as the 215b because it was just crap. 

 

And no, the super conqueror doesn't appear to be overpowered at all. The gun is amazing, sure and the hulldown is very very strong, but it doesn't really have any staying power outside of the hulldown because the lower plate is so bad and you have to expose it while sidescraping and the side really doesn't stand up against type 5 heavies or E-100s spamming HE. It's good, but it isn't retard proof and it's perfectly beatable in most tanks that aren't just underpowered atm.

 

The only question I have is why the STB-1, leopard and especially the 121b are allowed to exist in this state. WG vastly overestimates the value of mobility.

 

Agreed, the FV215b turret was just too weak which made the whole tank it bit pointless.

 

I don't have those mediums and no access to the data right now so I can't say much about them.



ares354 #15 Posted 01 November 2017 - 06:02 PM

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View PostMrConway, on 01 November 2017 - 05:55 PM, said:

 

We're currently doing all the re-balancing and I hope and think that we will also look at the Tiger II as it is one of my favourite tanks!

 

 

Agreed, the FV215b turret was just too weak which made the whole tank it bit pointless.

 

I don't have those mediums and no access to the data right now so I can't say much about them.

 

You know that Fv 215 biggest issue is not turret ? But hull, fuel tank and engine in front of weak upper plate. That will be pen by most tier 9 and 10. 

Yea WG doing rebalancing of lines that PLAYER never ask WG to do ? Where in forum we PLAYERS ask for 263 changes >? We talk that tier 7, 8 and 9 where bad, not 10. 

It's good you like Tiger 2, but that DONT change facts he is BY FAR worst tier 8 for years, and 9.17.1 did nothing for him. Topics about T32 gun use to be common as well. You can't play T32 with AP now days and have any fun, just like Tiger 2. 

Anxter_ #16 Posted 01 November 2017 - 06:13 PM

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View Postares354, on 01 November 2017 - 04:54 PM, said:

 

E5 dont have any staying power outside hulldown and if you keep your BIG weakspot hidden, and still SQ is better then E5 in almost everything. 

Why all of you try to compere SQ to super heavy tanks like E100, Type 5 and Maus, if we have tank like IS 4, E5, 113, IS 7. Compere him to E5, and see how much better he is. 

For AP ammo SQ weakspot on turret is not wekaspot at all, only HEAT pen it...

 

The cupola is a perfectly viable weakspot, don't pretend otherwise or you just look stupid. It has some weird angles going for it but the thickness is negligible. 

 

And I'm not sure why you are so up in arms about this. Yeah, it powercreeps the crapout of the e5 and IS-4. But it also is a heavy tank that has a great gun, is competitive vs the superheavy spam that's going on AND doesn't have foolproof armor so you can actually punish it. It's powercreep, but powercreep in a way that promotes people playing well to get the most out of it. Besides, both the e5 and the superconq are easy to punish if they are out of hulldown, but the superconqs lower plate is WAY worse than the e5 one still is and the e5 is still a bit faster. 

 

The super conq is definitely better, but in terms of powercreep this isn't all that bad considering what WG did earlier with the maus and type 5. Hell, the e5 was outdated before the super conq ever reared it's head.

 

View PostMrConway, on 01 November 2017 - 04:55 PM, said:

 

We're currently doing all the re-balancing and I hope and think that we will also look at the Tiger II as it is one of my favourite tanks!

 

 

Agreed, the FV215b turret was just too weak which made the whole tank it bit pointless.

 

I don't have those mediums and no access to the data right now so I can't say much about them.

 

Just take a look at this :https://tanks.gg/com...~leopard-1~121b

 

121b is on the low end of DPM for tier 9 meds. None of those tanks have any real edge over the super conq anymore apart from mobility, but they lose so much survivability for it that it's just not worth playing them at all. If you want a good gun the patton or super conq are just massively better and if it's the mobility you want you're much better off with an autoloader like the 50b or the skoda. Powercreep has left the leopard and STB without a real niche over other tanks and the 121b has just been terrible ever since WG implemented it.


Edited by Anxter_, 01 November 2017 - 06:14 PM.


Mimos_A #17 Posted 01 November 2017 - 06:14 PM

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I'm on the fence. While it definitely has weaknesses it might be a bit too powerful. It's fine that it's great on ridgelines, but rushing it out is very problematic due to its really high dpm. Add to that 10 degrees of gun depression and amazing gun handling and it does seem a bit out of line. I haven't made my mind up whether it's just good or too good yet.

brumbarr #18 Posted 01 November 2017 - 06:20 PM

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View Postares354, on 01 November 2017 - 05:45 PM, said:

 


@Brumbarr last four weeks for tier 10 HT http://wot-news.com/...ver/eu/norm/en 

E100 under 47% WR,FV 2315 and E5 as well bad. WZ 5a in top 3. 
 

You cant look at the overal avg stats, the WZ5A is played by much better players so ofcourse it will have a better avg winrate.

What you have to is look at the the whole spectrum of WR and see for each WR how much it overperforms.

And thats exactly what that curve does and it shows its perfectly balanced.



saso_slo_ms #19 Posted 01 November 2017 - 06:29 PM

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SC not OP? LOL it's one of the most OP tanks recently. FV215b is like 2 tiers lower, compared to SC

 

- Same gun handling with -10 gun depression

- Much better armor and space armor 

- decent mobility and overall good tank.

 

Its pure WG nonsense balance what are they doing patch after patch.



brumbarr #20 Posted 01 November 2017 - 06:37 PM

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View Postsaso_slo_ms, on 01 November 2017 - 06:29 PM, said:

SC not OP? LOL it's one of the most OP tanks recently. FV215b is like 2 tiers lower, compared to SC

 

- Same gun handling with -10 gun depression

It has wrose gun handling

- Much better armor and space armor 

true

- decent mobility and overall good tank.

Its slower tha nthe fv and catn turn. its really not fast at all.

 

Its pure WG nonsense balance what are they doing patch after patch.

Its just not OP, its better than the FV, but hte FV is a craptank, its  on par with the new T10 meta.







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