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why not put lootboxes to replace premium ammo/consummables

premium gold ammo lootbox

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The_W #1 Posted 02 November 2017 - 01:19 AM

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ayyyy whats poppin

 

Please make sure to at least read the TL DR and give me your thoughts !

 

So first of all I think WG should balance the game around 2 types of ammo, a normal pen, normal damage ammo ( put AP, HEAT, APCR on the same level, just keep their different physics so they behave differently and give some diversity to the gameplay ) and a low pen, high damage ammo (aka HE shells ). I also think they should prevent the use of anything " premium " that has a direct effect on the core gameplay of the game.

 

With that in mind, it's true that wargaming is a company and they have to maintain financial stability, and so I thought why not put lootboxes full of cosmetics that you would buy with credits ? Today  players get crazy over useless skins for weapons, so why not apply that to tanks ? I would suppose that putting a texture on a tank would not be super hard or time consuming for WG.

Also, the lootboxes could contain -purely cosmetic- armor packs, or new shiny chrome wheels, or different gun barrel/turret/hull models, or event related cosmetics (i know you would love a big halloween skull on your shiny tank)  with a smaller drop chance for those higher quality cosmetics.

 

You could buy the lootboxes with credits, maybe 50k for a standard lootbox, and then also sell more expensive lootboxes for 250k or a million that would have higher chances to drop rare cosmetics. Maybe give out 4 cosmetics per lootboxes, but that would apply on different tanks, so it would reward players for researching new tank branches.

 

And in the premium shop, why not sell packs of 50 lootboxes for real money, i know those are really popular in AAA games, but guess what, WoT is free so a RNG based lootbox reward is morally correct because you didn't pay 60bucks to play that game ( i hate u overwatch)

 

The main benefit (imo) would be that it'd put players on equal ground thanks to the absence of highly priced articles more accessible to premium accounts owners, and the bulk of WG's profit would be made through the cosmetics, that do NOT affect the core gameplay but that players would get crazy over anyway because we are weak humans and demand a gold wrap on our tank

 

I believe if WG decides to push out such an update it could give  a second wind to WoT, cuz it'd reward the player for farming a lot of credits (and buying premium tanks/accounts), it'd reward the player for exploring new tech trees, but most of all it'd get rid of the entire premium side of the gameplay.

 

TL:D

  • get rid of premium stuff that affects the core gameplay itself (prem ammo/consummable)
  • create a core gameplay that doesn't give you an edge if you pay more
  • instead, sell lootboxes for credits with cosmetics ( skins, armor packs, wheels, gun barrel models, etc)
  • rewards the players for researching new tech trees, also gives all the players an equal gameplay
  • profits to WG thanks to premium tanks/account to farm credit for lootboxes, and sellig lootboxes packs

 

so yeah, tell me your thoughts !

 

EDIT : 

Maybe also allow players to buy specific cosmetic with bonds, to keep a grinding side  to get a cosmetic making it not-so-easy but still rewarding, making tier 10 more appealing in the process


Edited by The_W, 02 November 2017 - 03:11 PM.


Tidal_Force #2 Posted 02 November 2017 - 01:28 AM

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Purely cosmetic stuff, I approve, but this simply isn't going to happen. WG went too far with current model, even if they wanted to change, it wouldn't go well with players. You are new to forum, so you have no idea how many players here are willing to make any mental jumps and twist logic in most painful ways, just to claim that there is no P2W. Significant fraction of the playerbase is so used to P2W that they actually expect it (while still claiming there is none, for a bonus doublethink).


Edited by Tidal_Force, 02 November 2017 - 01:28 AM.


ExclamationMark #3 Posted 02 November 2017 - 01:33 AM

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rrreeeeeeeeeeeeeeee game is p2w i dont get advantage because i dont pay rrrrrrrrrreeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

Derethim #4 Posted 02 November 2017 - 01:34 AM

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View PostThe_W, on 02 November 2017 - 01:19 AM, said:

 

I wouldn't mind any of this and I'm sure many people wouldn't either, but since this is your third post overall on these forums let me tell you how things work around here...

 

-You post a "common" topic, like an arty "whine" a gold round "whine" or a "whine" about an OP tank, you're asking to get "trolled" (people will mostly attack your grammar to amuse themselves, because they think it's funny) and flamed by some more petty people around here. I used quotes on "whine" because it's not a whine if it has a real reason. Altough after the number of posts about this, this forums receives, you need to understand; people get annoyed by these topics.

A good example:

View PostExclamationMark, on 02 November 2017 - 01:33 AM, said:

rrreeeeeeeeeeeeeeee game is p2w i dont get advantage because i dont pay rrrrrrrrrreeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

 

-Wargaming EU completely ignores their EU forums aside from a few moderators, who try their best, but can't really do much aside from forwarding small suggestions/bug reports, which often get ignored too.

 

-A change in ammo would require a change in armor layouts on many tanks in the game, that were specifically made to be near-impenetrable with normal rounds from the front and even the side sometimes.. for example, the VK.100.00.P, the Defender, the Liberté, but mainly the Maus and the Type 5. E-100 is also pretty absurd. This is a lot of work and a huge source of income for Wargaming, that they will not let go of even if it meant half of the playerbase would leave.

 

-A post about gold or arty, no matter how well structured is going to fail, because nobody important is going to notice it

 

-Lootboxes are a nice idea, but the game's engine doesent allow the tank to have a different skin, unless you edit it's base texture. What this means, you can only have "overlay" skins like camos and even those are handled badly by the engine. And don't even get me started on cosmetics like in War Thunder - these would actually require you to change the mesh of the tank every time they are applied at the moment. Big World sucks, big time (lul).

 

But nice ideas, it's always better to post a few ideas than to outright whine like some people do on here :teethhappy:

 


Edited by Derethim, 02 November 2017 - 01:35 AM.


Tidal_Force #5 Posted 02 November 2017 - 01:39 AM

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View PostExclamationMark, on 02 November 2017 - 12:33 AM, said:

rrreeeeeeeeeeeeeeee game is p2w i dont get advantage because i dont pay rrrrrrrrrreeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

 

Right.

I forgot to mention those who actually like P2W.


Edited by Tidal_Force, 02 November 2017 - 01:40 AM.


Balc0ra #6 Posted 02 November 2017 - 01:47 AM

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View PostThe_W, on 02 November 2017 - 01:19 AM, said:

And in the premium shop, why not sell packs of 50 lootboxes for real money, i know those are really popular in AAA games,

 

And that's going really well for them.. as I've not seen more hate towards anything, then the lootboxes in AAA games you already payed $60. 90% of them don't even need it. And some nations are considering making loot boxes gambling... thus making it illegal. So not a great time to start with it now. It's in such a weird state that even f2p games are like "this is not working, lets stop using them".

 

Do I mind it when it's purely cosmetic? No not really. But it idea of it is still really idiotic. As then you end up buying lots of them, or getting lots of them for free. And only get stuff you will never use, don't care for, or is 100% useless to you. As I would never buy a single lootbox hoping I would get something that fits on my German TD's that might randomly be in there. But only getting French and UK camo and premium consumables in 50 boxes. Vs just buying it directly and get done with it. Sure you will have people buying 50 boxes for €99, much like they did for WOWS Halloween lootboxes in hopes of getting that permanent Halloween skin for that one boat, only to get it on the nations he don't have them for. 

 

 I would rather buy what I want, when I want it. Vs hoping I get it in the 10 boxes I could be bothered to get. As I'm happy this game don't have it. And hope they stay far away from that crap.



ExclamationMark #7 Posted 02 November 2017 - 01:57 AM

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View PostTidal_Force, on 02 November 2017 - 01:39 AM, said:

Right.

I forgot to mention those who actually like P2W.

 

You mean those non-existent players, since P2W isn't a thing in this game?

Jigabachi #8 Posted 02 November 2017 - 02:12 AM

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You are 7 years late with that idea. You are asking the developer to completely change the concept of the game.
Would be nice, but won't happen.

Homer_J #9 Posted 02 November 2017 - 02:49 AM

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View PostThe_W, on 02 November 2017 - 12:19 AM, said:

ayyyy whats poppin

 

Popcorn.

 

:popcorn:

 

Does these loot boxes contain stuff that makes the other tank go BOOM!

 

If not then I'm not buying.



ExclamationMark #10 Posted 02 November 2017 - 03:02 AM

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relevant: 



Tidal_Force #11 Posted 02 November 2017 - 04:03 AM

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View PostExclamationMark, on 02 November 2017 - 12:57 AM, said:

 

You mean those non-existent players, since P2W isn't a thing in this game?

 

So you claim that being able to spam gold and still come out with a profit is not an advantage? That Defender is balanced?

 

You are aware that all the tests you like to strawman into discussions so much actually prove existence of P2W? Players who chose to stop spamming gold experience drop in performance, that's the end of it, really. That's all that is needed to prove that WoT is P2W.

 

Before you link this thread: http://forum.worldof...iment-finished/ and apply usual strawman. That thread actually proves P2W: F2P account had 3k WN8, while Angelo's resents posted in same thread were 4300 WN8. That is P2W, and a pretty massive one.

 

Same happens in all the "tests" and "challenges": great player stops spamming gold, loses 25% or more of the WN8, but stays unicum because he was supercum before, and all the usual suspects come in fapping how there is no P2W because he's still purple, and strawman P2W argument into "it's only P2W if tomato becomes supercum", where in fact any drop whatsoever is an undeniable proof of P2W.


Edited by Tidal_Force, 02 November 2017 - 04:08 AM.


ExclamationMark #12 Posted 02 November 2017 - 04:29 AM

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View PostTidal_Force, on 02 November 2017 - 04:03 AM, said:

So you claim that being able to spam gold and still come out with a profit is not an advantage? That Defender is balanced?

No it's not an advantage. Since the other player, F2P and lacking credits or not, has the option to shoot prem the same as someone with a premium account does.

I never claimed it's balanced, never will, it's clearly overperforming and a blatant money-grab tank, but no it is not P2W. Put a bad in a Defender and he'll still play bad. 

View PostTidal_Force, on 02 November 2017 - 04:03 AM, said:

Players who chose to stop spamming gold experience drop in performance, that's the end of it, really. That's all that is needed to prove that WoT is P2W.

So you think that someone performing better in a tank due to them spamming prem is a sign of it being P2W? That's your definition of P2W? Again, not P2W, since an F2P can still fire prem ammo. As brumbarr's thread is clearly displaying.

View PostTidal_Force, on 02 November 2017 - 04:03 AM, said:

Before you link this thread: http://forum.worldof...iment-finished/ and apply usual strawman. That thread actually proves P2W: F2P account had 3k WN8, while Angelo's resents posted in same thread were 4300 WN8. That is P2W, and a pretty massive one.

You are again ignoring winrates. So far all I gather is your definition of P2W is that shooting prem ammo gives you higher DPG. So maybe you should be saying P2D.

His winrate over 900 games was 60%. His current winrate @ same amount of games played is roughly 62%. 

He played those 900 games coming up on 3 years ago at this stage. Let me guess, you're going to say that there's no way he improved over those ~3 years, and that extra ~2% WR is due to spamming prem ammo. (Which I believe he doesn't in the first place, go check his WoTreplays profile if you so wish.)

View PostTidal_Force, on 02 November 2017 - 04:03 AM, said:

Same happens in all the "tests" and "challenges": great player stops spamming gold, loses 25% or more of the WN8, but stays unicum because he was supercum before, and all the usual suspects come in fapping how there is no P2W because he's still purple, and strawman P2W argument into "it's only P2W if tomato becomes supercum", where in fact any drop whatsoever is an undeniable proof of P2W.

This is actually pretty funny, no other way to describe it.

You do realize that it's not gold ammo anymore and hasn't been for many years.



250swb #13 Posted 02 November 2017 - 06:40 AM

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The OP seriously imagines players will remain intrigued and motivated when the only things they can buy are cosmetic? And I mean 'buy' in both the cash and earn it in game sense.

 

We all know WOT isn't a game you can win, reaching level X doesn't mean it's over and you need to find another game to play. So within WOT there needs to be something to keep the spice of the game alive, and like any sports or games that are played primarily for adrenaline, the development of skill, and gaining rewards for winning, there has to be a direct feedback between effort and results. You put the effort in, you get the results in return. A player needs to know their effort has value, so they earn credits, they can buy premium ammo with those credits, it gives them a slightly weighted advantage in certain circumstances, they feel justified in playing the game and the effort was worth it. And you expect the same player satisfaction levels by allowing them to buy or earn cosmetic baubles?

 

Baubles were used to wow primitive tribes who had been living in uncomplicated bliss until the white man arrived, and then the world got a whole lot more complicated for them. And the world still is complicated, you'll find baubles no longer cut it for gaining long term satisfaction, especially pixel baubles that only you can see so you can't even say 'look at me!' in the game. Yeah, that will retain the player long term, not. 

 

If you want to modify or remove premium ammo you need to replace it with another means to make the player feel competitive. They need to feel they can make a difference or find a small advantage, otherwise the amateur footballer wouldn't go and buy the latest boots, the time trial cyclist wouldn't want the latest aero helmet, or the WOT player want premium ammo. None of those things make a footballer, cyclist, or WOT player better, but they give hope and keep the sport or game alive for them. You are going to fail the game big time thinking cosmetic skins can be a valid replacement for that 'hope', and it's a very poor judgement on human behaviour if you think baubles will keep people happy for long.


Edited by 250swb, 02 November 2017 - 06:47 AM.


ZlatanArKung #14 Posted 02 November 2017 - 06:58 AM

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If you pay for premium account, you will have a better credit balance, which will make it possible to sustain premium ammo shooting and having food on tank.
And in current game were premium ammo are becoming more and more a neccessity, the premium account gives an advantage.

Then you have pure p2w aspects like Defender, Chrysler, Pz II J, FCM pak 40 and more in the future.

Hedgehog1963 #15 Posted 02 November 2017 - 07:43 AM

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View PostTidal_Force, on 02 November 2017 - 12:28 AM, said:

Purely cosmetic stuff, I approve, but this simply isn't going to happen. WG went too far with current model, even if they wanted to change, it wouldn't go well with players. You are new to forum, so you have no idea how many players here are willing to make any mental jumps and twist logic in most painful ways, just to claim that there is no P2W. Significant fraction of the playerbase is so used to P2W that they actually expect it (while still claiming there is none, for a bonus doublethink).

 

So, following your logic, how much did you pay to get that WR?

 



Jigabachi #16 Posted 02 November 2017 - 10:50 AM

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View PostExclamationMark, on 02 November 2017 - 04:29 AM, said:

Put a bad in a Defender and he'll still play bad. 

That's exactly what he tried to explain: Things don't have to turn a tomato into a unicorn to be  P2W. Tanks like the Defender and spamming premammo/using all kinds of consumables will inflate your performance, no matter if you are a tomato or a unicorn. THAT is P2W already.

We can argue about whether the level of P2W in the game is still acceptable or not, but it's definitely P2W.



japtank #17 Posted 02 November 2017 - 11:30 AM

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View Post250swb, on 02 November 2017 - 06:40 AM, said:

If you want to modify or remove premium ammo you need to replace it with another means to make the player feel competitive.

 

Just wanted to chime in.

I've been playing this game for years and never felt compelled to be competitive, nor to get competitive items and the like.

On the other hand, I love baubles.

Camouflages, shiny tanks, cool stuff.

 

Maybe because I'm 56 and have long understood the only man worth beating in the world is myself.

I used to spend hundreds of € on this game before the tier VIII MM disaster and never did to be competitive and gain an advantage over anyone.

 

Just my 2 cents.


Edited by japtank, 02 November 2017 - 11:31 AM.


Derethim #18 Posted 02 November 2017 - 12:04 PM

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View PostJigabachi, on 02 November 2017 - 10:50 AM, said:

That's exactly what he tried to explain: Things don't have to turn a tomato into a unicorn to be  P2W. Tanks like the Defender and spamming premammo/using all kinds of consumables will inflate your performance, no matter if you are a tomato or a unicorn. THAT is P2W already.

We can argue about whether the level of P2W in the game is still acceptable or not, but it's definitely P2W.

 

This.

The game started becoming P2W only in the recent years, it was pretty mild before. Before premium tanks became more powerful, than their counterparts, before they started pushing the playerbase into spamming premium ammo, making a lot of tanks's armor completely irrelevant or worse - balanced around premium ammo.



sgtYester #19 Posted 02 November 2017 - 12:09 PM

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View PostExclamationMark, on 02 November 2017 - 01:33 AM, said:

rrreeeeeeeeeeeeeeee game is p2w i dont get advantage because i dont pay rrrrrrrrrreeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

 

so u do agree the game is p2w..

 

good to know



250swb #20 Posted 02 November 2017 - 12:17 PM

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View Postjaptank, on 02 November 2017 - 10:30 AM, said:

Maybe because I'm 56 and have long understood the only man worth beating in the world is myself.

I used to spend hundreds of € on this game before the tier VIII MM disaster and never did to be competitive and gain an advantage over anyone.

 

 

I don't know what age should have to do with it? I'm older than you and not ready to give in just yet. WOT is either a competitive game or the OP wants to turn it into a 'sewing circle' where the players can compare and share camo patterns, and that means it will die.







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