Jump to content


Wargaming – Subtlety is not your Strongest Point!


  • Please log in to reply
22 replies to this topic

Ogmios1047 #1 Posted 03 November 2017 - 07:58 PM

    Private

  • Player
  • 9119 battles
  • 4
  • Member since:
    09-10-2016

I know I’m only a mediocre player so no complaints that if I have a few good days they will be followed by days that are less good. I have a 51% win rate which is OK for my ability level taking into account I don’t play high tiers – I’ll move up when I won’t be an embarrassment to my team.

 

So if my recent win rate is exceeding 51% and needs a correction that’s OK but do you have to be so brutal about it?

 

I know I’m being heretical to suggest the matchmaker is skewed in some way, cries of statistical probability, do you think Wargaming is interested only in handicapping you, I’ve read the comments and sorry but they’re …. well you know!

 

I like numbers and record my results so when Wargaming decides on a correction it is relatively easy to spot. Normally I just turn the game off but I do sometimes continue with a single low tier tank, a M7 Priest SPG, here are the results and those for the next tier SPG.

 

M7 Priest – 175 games win rate 38%

M37 – 53 games win rate 57%

 

So I suck in the Priest well not according to the statistics on vbaddict:

 

M7 Priest average damaged dealt 126.6 my average 166

M37 average damage dealt 217.9 my average 280

 

Pretty similar performances and the difference, maybe 20-30% of battles in the Priest are played during a Wargaming ‘correction period’.

 

Great game so thank you Wargaming but a little subtlety in your correction process would be appreciated.



Slyspy #2 Posted 03 November 2017 - 08:03 PM

    Field Marshal

  • Player
  • 14169 battles
  • 16,326
  • [T-D-U] T-D-U
  • Member since:
    12-07-2011
Bless you, but you aren't a mediocre player. But the good news is that neither are most players at tiers four and five. On the other hand you do win more than may be you should, so keep quiet about it!

FluffyRedFox #3 Posted 03 November 2017 - 08:04 PM

    Lieutenant General

  • Player
  • 21564 battles
  • 7,691
  • [LEWD] LEWD
  • Member since:
    12-05-2012

It doesn't help your point in using SPG stats as SPGs are more team dependant than anything else, and thats also not helped by the lower sample sizes.

Nothing odd going on here, you can take off the tinfoil hat now.



JuicyProduction #4 Posted 03 November 2017 - 08:07 PM

    Sergeant

  • Player
  • 27089 battles
  • 274
  • [OMNI] OMNI
  • Member since:
    11-10-2013
I agree that win rate is manipulated. There is no other reason that my win rate alternated from 60% to 40% on a daily basis without equal fluctuations with my wn8. But you're argument is presented with arty which doesn't have as much influence in winning the battle. any way, the fact you stay at lower tiers until you get better is respectful. the fact you play clickers is not.

Derethim #5 Posted 03 November 2017 - 08:11 PM

    Lieutenant

  • Player
  • 16426 battles
  • 1,717
  • Member since:
    04-03-2012

All the unicums dare to disagree with winrate manipulation, me not being one of them.

But the mm may be predisposed to giving you worse teams or bad tank balance or something, to make you spam more gold.



Strappster #6 Posted 03 November 2017 - 08:20 PM

    General

  • Player
  • 23565 battles
  • 8,756
  • [WJDE] WJDE
  • Member since:
    10-20-2015

Wait, because you average 166 damage in the M7 Priest compared to the values on vbaddict, WG are stacking the odds against you?

 

There's been some proper tinfoil milliners on this forum of late but I think we've just discovered their leader. :amazed:



Slyspy #7 Posted 03 November 2017 - 08:21 PM

    Field Marshal

  • Player
  • 14169 battles
  • 16,326
  • [T-D-U] T-D-U
  • Member since:
    12-07-2011

View PostJuicyProduction, on 03 November 2017 - 08:07 PM, said:

I agree that win rate is manipulated. There is no other reason that my win rate alternated from 60% to 40% on a daily basis without equal fluctuations with my wn8. 

 

You think this because you don't understand numbers. 



Xaneleon #8 Posted 03 November 2017 - 08:29 PM

    Second Lieutenant

  • WGL PRO Player
  • 21188 battles
  • 1,011
  • [FAME] FAME
  • Member since:
    01-09-2013

View PostSlyspy, on 03 November 2017 - 07:21 PM, said:

 

You think this because you don't understand numbers. 

Oh oh!

 

The numbers Mason, what do they mean?!



Ogmios1047 #9 Posted 03 November 2017 - 08:43 PM

    Private

  • Player
  • 9119 battles
  • 4
  • Member since:
    09-10-2016

View PostStrappster, on 03 November 2017 - 08:20 PM, said:

Wait, because you average 166 damage in the M7 Priest compared to the values on vbaddict, WG are stacking the odds against you?

 

There's been some proper tinfoil milliners on this forum of late but I think we've just discovered their leader. :amazed:

 

We don't seem to be on the same wavelength on this, am I wrong?

 

My point was when on a loosing run I play the Priest and get a 38% win rate compared to a similar tank played normally with a 57% win rate. The vbaddict numbers were quoted to support my view that it isn't just down to poor play in a particular tank.

 

And please leave my tin foil hat out of this, I think it looks quite fetching! Have to agree with the comment on playing arties, it is pretty low but we all have our dark side don't we!



Steve8066 #10 Posted 03 November 2017 - 08:49 PM

    Warrant Officer

  • Player
  • 9616 battles
  • 549
  • Member since:
    10-06-2015

View PostJuicyProduction, on 03 November 2017 - 08:07 PM, said:

I agree that win rate is manipulated. There is no other reason that my win rate alternated from 60% to 40% on a daily basis without equal fluctuations with my wn8. But you're argument is presented with arty which doesn't have as much influence in winning the battle. any way, the fact you stay at lower tiers until you get better is respectful. the fact you play clickers is not.

 

win rate is manipulated in games because if it wasnt, all those with 20/30% etc would leave the game as it was `too hard`

NUKLEAR_SLUG #11 Posted 03 November 2017 - 08:55 PM

    Lieutenant

  • Player
  • 26618 battles
  • 1,611
  • Member since:
    06-13-2015

View PostOgmios1047, on 03 November 2017 - 07:58 PM, said:

So if my recent win rate is exceeding 51% and needs a correction that’s OK but do you have to be so brutal about it?

 

What do you believe the criteria are for determining that a particular individual players WR requires "correcting"?

Aikl #12 Posted 03 November 2017 - 08:58 PM

    Brigadier

  • Player
  • 25141 battles
  • 4,002
  • [-MM] -MM
  • Member since:
    04-13-2011

Many argue that home economics should be a subject in school; I'd say split it with fundamental statistics

 

Besides, this type of 'conspiracy theory' is really not entertaining at all; which is kind of the main attraction of the 'big picture' stuff (and kind of interesting to see how certain parts turn out true).



ExclamationMark #13 Posted 03 November 2017 - 09:00 PM

    Colonel

  • Player
  • 16679 battles
  • 3,727
  • Member since:
    04-12-2013
soooo unlucky :<

Orkbert #14 Posted 03 November 2017 - 09:28 PM

    Second Lieutenant

  • Player
  • 24662 battles
  • 1,479
  • Member since:
    08-29-2013

View PostOgmios1047, on 03 November 2017 - 08:43 PM, said:

 

 

My point was when on a loosing run I play the Priest and get a 38% win rate compared to a similar tank played normally with a 57% win rate.

 

Apart from the little fact that a tank with only 53 battles fought is absolutely no indicator for a win rate comparison, currently each battle won or lost with that one will still alter its win rate by almost two percent.

 

Not even thinking about the point that the other 14 players of your team would by your argument then also need a win rate correction, which seems kinda odd for the 44~46% players who by all means would have to be corrected upwards but oddly enough still get slated into a losing team (and surely the unicums among the enemy team would most likely need to get their win rate corrected downwards but strangely they get into a winning team...)

 

Block Quote

 The vbaddict numbers were quoted to support my view that it isn't just down to poor play in a particular tank.

 Despite maybe being above the vbaddict average the average damage you make with your arties still means that you play them poorly.

 

Heck, I get more average damage with my T18 HMC and that gun is less than half as powerful as the M7 (175 vs. 410 alpha damage)

 

But go on, perform poorly with arty. That way the arty haters might cool off a bit when you only manage to damage them every second battle or so.



Ogmios1047 #15 Posted 03 November 2017 - 09:30 PM

    Private

  • Player
  • 9119 battles
  • 4
  • Member since:
    09-10-2016

View PostNUKLEAR_SLUG, on 03 November 2017 - 08:55 PM, said:

 

What do you believe the criteria are for determining that a particular individual players WR requires "correcting"?

 

Say I have a couple of days with 54/55% win rates which is on a number of tanks as I try to get as many daily doubles as possible. I'm not a 55% player on some yes, but not on average. How Wargaming deal with this is the interesting point. Maybe the team composition is then based on the expected contribution of a 55% player but frankly I don't mind how it is done, the game works well for me. The brutal part was the 1 win in 13 games, 8 straight losses in the Priest once I realised it was a WG correction.

CircleOfSorrow #16 Posted 03 November 2017 - 09:44 PM

    Lieutenant

  • Player
  • 28369 battles
  • 1,724
  • Member since:
    12-26-2012
I don't know why some people can't communicate on this forum without being an orifice that every member wants to be inside. Mother's say things like "if ya ain't got nuttin good ta say then shut ya bloody hole" and stuff, but every bastard don't always have a mum.

Edited by CircleOfSorrow, 03 November 2017 - 09:44 PM.


Sessine #17 Posted 03 November 2017 - 09:52 PM

    Second Lieutenant

  • Player
  • 27101 battles
  • 1,019
  • [WJDE] WJDE
  • Member since:
    12-26-2012

Maybe you learned a bit in the Priest which carries over. Also possibly crew skills did?



jabster #18 Posted 03 November 2017 - 09:57 PM

    Field Marshal

  • Beta Tester
  • 12516 battles
  • 21,681
  • [WSAT] WSAT
  • Member since:
    12-30-2010

View PostSteve8066, on 03 November 2017 - 07:49 PM, said:

 

win rate is manipulated in games because if it wasnt, all those with 20/30% etc would leave the game as it was `too hard`

 

Yep because clearly lots of players with those win-rates would exist in a 15 vs. 15 game with no respawns.



Ogmios1047 #19 Posted 03 November 2017 - 10:15 PM

    Private

  • Player
  • 9119 battles
  • 4
  • Member since:
    09-10-2016

View PostSessine, on 03 November 2017 - 09:52 PM, said:

Maybe you learned a bit in the Priest which carries over. Also possibly crew skills did?

 

Fair point although I started a new crew in the M37.

 

Last comment. If there is some sort of skewing of the MM then when I have string of good results that might equally be due to the MM working in my favour? Bugger, hoisted on my own petard!



Slyspy #20 Posted 03 November 2017 - 10:17 PM

    Field Marshal

  • Player
  • 14169 battles
  • 16,326
  • [T-D-U] T-D-U
  • Member since:
    12-07-2011

View PostCircleOfSorrow, on 03 November 2017 - 09:44 PM, said:

I don't know why some people can't communicate on this forum without being an orifice that every member wants to be inside. Mother's say things like "if ya ain't got nuttin good ta say then shut ya bloody hole" and stuff, but every bastard don't always have a mum.

 

In fact every bastard has a mother but often not an identifiable father. 




1 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users