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Wargaming, please buff the 17 lber for the brit tanks


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Wateyuk #1 Posted 04 November 2017 - 12:56 PM

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im currently on the black prince and im getting quite annoyed at how much of a difference there is between the Black prince and the rest of the tier 7s

firstly i am not bothered by the black princes flaws in terms of speed and flat armour.

i also would like to point out that if the black princes main gun was any bit decent compared to other tier 7s then i would not complain

 

This gun is a piece of crap, the ONLY thing it has going for it is its decent rate of fire. 

But what good is a RoF if the damn rounds dont penetrate?

the armour of the BP is ok against mediums and light tanks if you angle it right so the armour doesnt compensate the crap gun

the speed of the BP is crap, as most british tanks are the same, so that doesnt compensate the gun

 

the Damage and pen of this gun is so bad, that every heavy at tier 7 has better Speed, Penetration, Damage and Calibre of gun

it is even that bad as that everything but the SP I C, VK 30.02D, LEO, T-43 and T20 has better pen than it (and they are mediums Except the SP I C so its expected) 

BUT they all have better Damage apart from the Panther (but at least you got accuracy, RoF, Speed and Pen)

 

Black Prince = 171 Pen - 150 Dmg

ARL 44 = 212 Pen - 240 Dmg

IS-2 = 175 Pen - 390 Dmg

TVP = 175 Pen - 250 Dmg

O-Ni = 190 Pen - 330 Dmg

Leo = 155 Pen - 300 Dmg

T20 = 160 Pen - 240 Dmg

T29 = 198 Pen - 320 Dmg

T-43 = 144 Pen - 180 Dmg

A-44 = 167 Pen - 300 Dmg

IS + KV-3 = 175 Pen - 390 Dmg

Tiger l + Tiger (P) = 203 Pen - 240 Dmg

Panther = 198 Pen - 135 Dmg

VK 30.02D = 145 Pen - 220 Dmg

SP I C = 158 Pen - 220 Dmg

 

All tanks here are same tier as the Black Prince BUT all have better mobility and gun while some even have better armour as well

RoF is NOTHING without the ability to penetrate!

Please Wargaming, give this tank some Love!!!  make the Penetration190/200 and the damage to about 220/240 

you can keep the speed and the armour the same but put this on the same par as the other tier 7s or drop it down a tier!!!

 

this isnt a rant or a go at wargaming, this is a little bit of research and a little request to Wargaming

 

P.S. even the tank that germans in ww2 thought was the biggest threat (firefly), the tiger, panther AND the panzer lV just laugh at it due to how much of a threat it isnt


Edited by Wateyuk, 04 November 2017 - 12:59 PM.


commer #2 Posted 04 November 2017 - 12:59 PM

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Every line needs a stinker to encourage people to use free exp. Better at t7 than higher up. Especially since now the brits have excellent tanks from t8 to t10

Derethim #3 Posted 04 November 2017 - 01:00 PM

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What you can't see is, the 17-pounder is not just used on the Black Prince, but also on, for example, the Firefly. Firefly is a tier VI tank.

The Black Prince's gun is inadequate to balance it's amazing armor, but I think the low top speed is enough. They should just make APCR it's base ammo and maybe HEAT the premium rounds.


Edited by Derethim, 04 November 2017 - 01:01 PM.


AliceUnchained #4 Posted 04 November 2017 - 01:19 PM

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View PostWateyuk, on 04 November 2017 - 12:56 PM, said:

Please Wargaming, give this tank some Love!!!  make the Penetration190/200 and the damage to about 220/240 

 

It's a 76.2 mm caliber gun. Giving it the same damage as the 8.8 cm and 90 mm guns is just absurd. Furthermore, the one gun which would deserve a buff far more (even being historically accurate) is the 7.5 cm KwK 42 L/70. It should have better penetration, at 180 - 185 mm, than the 17-pounder, and same damage.

 

Wargaming should just give the Black Prince the 20-pounder instead. Or give it +1 MM instead. 



Derethim #5 Posted 04 November 2017 - 01:50 PM

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View PostAliceUnchained, on 04 November 2017 - 01:19 PM, said:

 

It's a 76.2 mm caliber gun. Giving it the same damage as the 8.8 cm and 90 mm guns is just absurd. Furthermore, the one gun which would deserve a buff far more (even being historically accurate) is the 7.5 cm KwK 42 L/70. It should have better penetration, at 180 - 185 mm, than the 17-pounder, and same damage.

 

Wargaming should just give the Black Prince the 20-pounder instead. Or give it +1 MM instead. 

 

Yeah the 20-pounder is a viable option, but it'd have to get slow refire rate, because it would be OP if not and the BP's main strenght is the refire rate :justwait:

RamRaid90 #6 Posted 04 November 2017 - 01:55 PM

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View PostWateyuk, on 04 November 2017 - 11:56 AM, said:

 

firstly i am not bothered by the black princes flaws in terms of speed and flat armour.

 

Pointing this out as a precurser for your argument indicates this is almost definitely what you find most annoying about the tank.

 

Indicative of the number of posts every day that start with the opening line "This is not a gold spam whine thread but..." or "This is not an arty whine thread but..."

 

I would also like to point out that the ARL 44 is NOT a tier VII tank, nor is the TVP



Aikl #7 Posted 04 November 2017 - 02:02 PM

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View PostDerethim, on 04 November 2017 - 12:50 PM, said:

 

Yeah the 20-pounder is a viable option, but it'd have to get slow refire rate, because it would be OP if not and the BP's main strenght is the refire rate :justwait:

 

I like the low-DPM approach, more original than making it a choice between good and bad gun handling. 17-pounder doesn't exactly have great DPM, though, I'm guessing a 1700-base 20-pounder and 1900-base 17-pounder would be decent (small buff). The latter still has quite good APCR-ammo, so can't go too far.

 

Note that T7 balancing is "a bit weird". The IS pays relatively little in terms of DPM for having that gun compared to the Tiger. 200/10% is not that much, and there's little difference in dispersion stats. Aim time and final accuracy, on the other hand, but still.



Balc0ra #8 Posted 04 November 2017 - 02:18 PM

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Black Prince and the 17 pdr made sense when it arrived. As the armor worked. And you would not want to give that tank a more beefy gun. Tho it did not take long before power creep did set in on it, and making that armor useless vs newer guns etc. And now going by other changes in the UK tree. Making the 17 pdr a second option, as in adding a 20 pdr makes more sense then buffing it. Even with that low alpha, the pen and ROF buff would have to be big to make it "fine" at best. Thus adding a 20 with more pen and alpha, and buffing the ROF even more then it was on the tier 8 back in the day. As 1600 dpm is not going to scare anyone. It can work again.

Edited by Balc0ra, 04 November 2017 - 02:19 PM.


Gremlin182 #9 Posted 04 November 2017 - 02:19 PM

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They tried to mount a 20 pounder on a BP and couldn't make it work.

If they did do it in the game I can imagine what you would lose to get the extra penetration, really bad gun handling and slow rate of fire.

 

The one thing I liked about the BP was its ability to fire rapidly and accurately on the move but it has suffered from the power creep in the game.

Adding none historical tanks and none historical guns on others means you cannot stop and just have to keep going.

 

 



Search_Warrant #10 Posted 04 November 2017 - 02:33 PM

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View Postcommer, on 04 November 2017 - 11:59 AM, said:

Every line needs a stinker to encourage people to use free exp. Better at t7 than higher up. Especially since now the brits have excellent tanks from t8 to t10

 

Every line needs a stinker. sadly british as a nation is the WoT stinker.




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