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ST-I/IS-4


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Hulkovius_Rex #1 Posted 08 November 2017 - 07:02 PM

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I've had the IS-4 researched for quite a while now, but I just don't see the point in getting it over the ST-I. As far as I can tell the hulls are identical, the mobility isn't too much better, and the gun is just slightly better due to it being tier X and not tier IX. What's the point of the upgrade if the armour ain't even as good?

commer #2 Posted 08 November 2017 - 07:11 PM

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View PostHulkovius_Rex, on 08 November 2017 - 07:02 PM, said:

I've had the IS-4 researched for quite a while now, but I just don't see the point in getting it over the ST-I. As far as I can tell the hulls are identical, the mobility isn't too much better, and the gun is just slightly better due to it being tier X and not tier IX. What's the point of the upgrade if the armour ain't even as good?

 

The armor is good it's just hard to maximize and it requires a specific gameplay. The stats suggest the tank performs well even though people hate playing it since it has a derpy gun.

speedphlux #3 Posted 08 November 2017 - 07:17 PM

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That's why I kept the ST-I, but also brought the IS-4. The fact that the gun performs better, is really an upgrade. Sadly, the IS-4 comes will less gun depression and that seems to be the only problem I have with the tank. Also, turret roof weakspot seems a bit easier to hit and pen (overmatch) on the IS-4, than it is on the ST-I.

There was a suggestion not that long ago, for WG to just switch the tanks around. As in - make the IS-4 a follow up from the KV-4 and get the ST-I to Tier 10. All they would need to do is tweak the Health Pools a bit and improve/worsen the gun handling of both tanks. Since in face, they share a similar hull, but Tier-for-Tier, the ST-I feels like a much better tank for some reason. Also, ST-I carries more ammo, which is vital when you have to carry a bunch of ingredients of a tomato soup, in a Tier 10 matchup.

Dava_117 #4 Posted 08 November 2017 - 07:18 PM

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Tier to tier, ST-I behave far better. But IS-4 got a better allaround turret armour, better sides with tall tracks that allows you to sidescrape better. Sure, the turret roof weackspot limit the facehug capacity of IS-4, but the armour improvements increase your survival rate a lot. Even if you play like a total noob, stlinium will bounce a good ammount of shots. Don't expect maus like performances, but blocking 2500 damage in one game is very easy. My record is 10000 damage blocked, mainly coming from an E3 bouncing gold on my sides the whole game.

BTW, you can stick to ST-I for a while if you don't feel confident enought to buy IS-4. I bought mine after 2k battles in ST-I! ;)

 

Edit

Just to clarify, I kept both ST-I and IS-4. I also kept KV-4, but that's OT...


Edited by Dava_117, 08 November 2017 - 07:21 PM.


speedphlux #5 Posted 08 November 2017 - 07:37 PM

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View PostDava_117, on 08 November 2017 - 07:18 PM, said:

Edit

Just to clarify, I kept both ST-I and IS-4. I also kept KV-4, but that's OT...

 

You've kept the KV-4 ?! Just as I was beginning to respect you ... :arta:

Dava_117 #6 Posted 08 November 2017 - 07:47 PM

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View Postspeedphlux, on 08 November 2017 - 07:37 PM, said:

 

You've kept the KV-4 ?! Just as I was beginning to respect you ... :arta:

 

Just to remove all the respect you can have, I perform even better in KV-4 than in ST-I! :harp:

japtank #7 Posted 09 November 2017 - 12:03 AM

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IS-4 armor is made of Stalinium... and butter.

 



Uebergewicht #8 Posted 09 November 2017 - 08:49 AM

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The main problem with the IS-4 is that it does not feel like a true upgrade to the ST-1. You gain a little something that you probably didnt grind the line for anway (mobility) and lose something you´d likely rather keep (hull down capabilities). You also gain a bit of gun handling, but it is still pretty poor on both tanks. 

 

The armor of the IS-4 is only good up to a certain threshold. With good angling you can reliably get 270+ all around armor, which is pretty good as long as the enemy is firing AP at you. As soon as HEAT is involved, no matter how you angle, a large section of your tank will be an easy pen for HEAT. And the IS-4 is also quite vulnerable when caught from a not-pre-alinged angled. Heck as long as you can fire slightly down on the IS-4 (and IS-4 is a low tank) you can even put AP through its upper frontal plate as long as it is not strongly angled. None of the armored tier 10 heavies really has to worry about its upper plate, but the IS-4 has. And you cannot hide your hull that well with limited gun depression, and even when hull down your roof is still a valuable target.

Yes, it can sidescrape well, but almost any well armored heavy at that tier can do this. The IS-4 doesnt really have a strenght to fall back to - it cannot really out-maneuver, out-bounce, out-trade or snapshot other tanks. A properly placed ST-1 can shoot at enemies with zero chance of them penning it. The IS-4 does not have that luxury, you cannot really get yourself in a position where you know you´ll dominate, you always need a bit of luck as well, which can be quite frustrating.

 

That said, WG announced quite a while back that they´re having plans for the IS-4 line, though nothing new resurfaced till now. They´re balancing tanks at least untill early 2018, so I guess we´ll just have to wait and see...



STLR #9 Posted 09 November 2017 - 09:06 AM

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View PostUebergewicht, on 09 November 2017 - 08:49 AM, said:

The armor of the IS-4 is only good up to a certain threshold. With good angling you can reliably get 270+ all around armor, which is pretty good as long as the enemy is firing AP at you. As soon as HEAT is involved, no matter how you angle, a large section of your tank will be an easy pen for HEAT. And the IS-4 is also quite vulnerable when caught 

Man i agree with your opinion but not on the HEAT problem. it's all about angling, and this tank is damn good at angling. i had a game these days where i fought frontally a WZ 5A frontally and i bounced constantly from UPF and LPF around 2k dmg. Also when playing IS-4 i usually bounce a lot of HEAT because armor is sloped - im talking  about the hull. i rarely experienced penetrations in the turret. The key in all this is to constantly wiggle otherwise HEAT will connect.



Uebergewicht #10 Posted 09 November 2017 - 09:33 AM

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View PostSTLR, on 09 November 2017 - 09:06 AM, said:

Man i agree with your opinion but not on the HEAT problem. it's all about angling, and this tank is damn good at angling. i had a game these days where i fought frontally a WZ 5A frontally and i bounced constantly from UPF and LPF around 2k dmg. Also when playing IS-4 i usually bounce a lot of HEAT because armor is sloped - im talking  about the hull. i rarely experienced penetrations in the turret. The key in all this is to constantly wiggle otherwise HEAT will connect.

 

You did not quite get me^^ Yes, when angled properly, the IS-4 can bounce even HEAT from its upper and lower plate. The part that becomes weak in those situations are the shoulders. If the WZ would have hit you in the shoulders while you were angled enough to bounce HEAT off of your UFP, the shoulders would have been penned. And they´re not tiny pixelshots, they´re quite realistic to hit.

Just check the armor viewer. If the IS-4 is angled sharply enough to get around 300mm on the UFP, the shoulders and most of the side barely reach 250mm effective.

 

I´m not saying you cant make the IS-4s armor work... but if you´re good enough to do that you would most likely do even better in any other armored tier 10 heavy.


Edited by Uebergewicht, 09 November 2017 - 09:34 AM.


TankkiPoju #11 Posted 09 November 2017 - 10:37 AM

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The problem of IS-4 isn't the lack or armor, it has plenty. Sure, you need to know how to use it still, many people don't.

 

The problem is it has bad alpha, bad DPM and potato gun handling, so it also can't really fight its way out of trouble. It's pretty sad even T-10 has better DPM than IS-4 and way better gun handling.

 

Many games feel like you are just a door stop for the enemy team and praying your team can capitalize on that.


Edited by TankkiPoju, 09 November 2017 - 10:37 AM.


Uebergewicht #12 Posted 09 November 2017 - 12:21 PM

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View PostTankkiPoju, on 09 November 2017 - 10:37 AM, said:

The problem of IS-4 isn't the lack or armor, it has plenty. Sure, you need to know how to use it still, many people don't.

 

The problem is it has bad alpha, bad DPM and potato gun handling, so it also can't really fight its way out of trouble. It's pretty sad even T-10 has better DPM than IS-4 and way better gun handling.

 

Many games feel like you are just a door stop for the enemy team and praying your team can capitalize on that.

 

It´s kinda a mix of both. While the IS-4s armor isnt really bad, its not too reliable either. If it had better ways of exposing itself without being somewhat vulnerable, I guess the poor gun handling would be excuseable... after all, that is mostly how the ST-1 gets around. But yeah, if you leave the armor as is (which is a valid option) then the IS-4 should receive some gun capabilities to make up for it. After recently grinding the T-10  it feels even more painful to go back to the IS-4 with its potato gun. And let´s not forget that all the tanks that used to be worse or equally lackluster have been buffed recently: Maus, Type 5, IS7 (and FV215b got a really strong replacement).

 

I can sign the "door stopper" quote though. IS-4 often only gets to delay the enemy somewhat, and even if it can force a breakthrough, it has a hard time capitalizing on that - the mobility is kinda sluggish, the gun isnt well stabilized when moving and going straight forward de-angles your armor and makes you vulnerable...

 

 



ares354 #13 Posted 09 November 2017 - 07:05 PM

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What is bad about IS 4 is just  that this tank is uptiered like many Germans tanks. 

He need to go back on tier 9, and ST 1 on tier 10, all what WG need to do. 

TsundereWaffle #14 Posted 09 November 2017 - 07:12 PM

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IS-4 is nice, problem is that it gets outperformed by pretty much every heavy tank at T10 currently

Uebergewicht #15 Posted 09 November 2017 - 07:26 PM

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View PostTsundereWaffle, on 09 November 2017 - 07:12 PM, said:

IS-4 is nice, problem is that it gets outperformed by pretty much every heavy tank at T10 currently

 

Well, yeah^^

saso_slo_ms #16 Posted 09 November 2017 - 07:30 PM

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After recent IS7 buff( which was to much!), that tank is no needed to be on tech tree. 



ares354 #17 Posted 09 November 2017 - 11:23 PM

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View PostTsundereWaffle, on 09 November 2017 - 07:12 PM, said:

IS-4 is nice, problem is that it gets outperformed by pretty much every heavy tank at T10 currently

 

Its overtired pice of crap with fake gun, Its not fine. 

Edited by ares354, 09 November 2017 - 11:23 PM.


TsundereWaffle #18 Posted 09 November 2017 - 11:26 PM

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View Postares354, on 09 November 2017 - 11:23 PM, said:

 

Its overtired pice of crap with fake gun, Its not fine. 

 

It indeed isn’t fine no. Still a nice tank however nonetheless, just needs a lot of love from WG, but since they are incapable of balancing tanks that most likely wont happen

ares354 #19 Posted 09 November 2017 - 11:33 PM

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View PostTsundereWaffle, on 09 November 2017 - 11:26 PM, said:

 

It indeed isn’t fine no. Still a nice tank however nonetheless, just needs a lot of love from WG, but since they are incapable of balancing tanks that most likely wont happen

 

This tank dont need love, it need to be on right tier, and that is 9. St 1 has way better turret armor, dont you see it ? 

TsundereWaffle #20 Posted 09 November 2017 - 11:36 PM

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View Postares354, on 09 November 2017 - 11:33 PM, said:

 

This tank dont need love, it need to be on right tier, and that is 9. St 1 has way better turret armor, dont you see it ? 

 

You realize moving it to tier 9 would be giving it love since it would be a buff? So what is it now, love for the IS-4 or no love? 

Anyways, in my opinion the IS-4 shoukd stay tier 10 but the turret roof weakspot needs to be removed, the upperplate needs to be buffed and perhaps the frontal hull cheeks as well. Besides that the gun... hm... better gun handling and reload perhaps?






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