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How Does One Play Sand River With A Heavy?


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TungstenHitman #1 Posted 12 November 2017 - 07:16 PM

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LT's, MT's and TD's even Arty, all do well on this map and it's a map I like a lot but simply have no idea how to do well on this map with a HT. With a HT when I try and play positively and not be a redline camper I get spotted, arty loved repeatedly, perma-tracked and become pretty much a HT pinata so all I can do is either camp for 5 or more minutes of the most boring, suck-[edited]minutes in WoT history or take a dive into the river part which is pretty much putting all your eggs in the one basket, can go well or can be 1 vs 5 with teammates all watching and laughing as you get wrecked offering no help at all. Add to this a tank with no gun dep and you're really having fun on a map covered with ridges and hills so I ask you HOW do you play Sand River well with a HT?

cragarion #2 Posted 12 November 2017 - 07:24 PM

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Carefully :).

Derethim #3 Posted 12 November 2017 - 07:28 PM

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Slow and strategic gameplay.

It's harder the slower your tank is... If you have a fast heavy with weak armour it's a little easier, since you can relocate easily. A lot of people keep to the same spot no matter the tank or the map - if you can't pen at a certain distance you should relocate. Or if you see a side is getting weaker you can give them reinforcements and save them. I even got praised by a teammate after battle for this! :) Was really nice

 A good turret and gun depression is really useful, the Chinese heavies are probably the hardest to play here.


Edited by Derethim, 12 November 2017 - 07:29 PM.


Dava_117 #4 Posted 12 November 2017 - 07:30 PM

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On standard and encounter, go to theeast side. Dunes help you to block shells and allows you to move unspotted. For assault, if you're on assaulting team got to the north side. Check if you're not spotted and go after the plateau. Just a single tank reaching the TD hill can help the entire push, leading to victory.

If you're defending, I usually go to the middle crossing, to spot north side of the river bed and prevent enemy to use the tactic I just told you.

It works well for me. :)



_EXODUZ_ #5 Posted 12 November 2017 - 07:34 PM

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Depends on what your team does, south side is usually a safe bet.

Derethim #6 Posted 12 November 2017 - 07:36 PM

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View PostDava_117, on 12 November 2017 - 07:30 PM, said:

On standard and encounter, go to theeast side. Dunes help you to block shells and allows you to move unspotted. For assault, if you're on assaulting team got to the north side. Check if you're not spotted and go after the plateau. Just a single tank reaching the TD hill can help the entire push, leading to victory.

If you're defending, I usually go to the middle crossing, to spot north side of the river bed and prevent enemy to use the tactic I just told you.

It works well for me. :)

 

Also depends on the tank, but the dunes are a nice tip. The place near the small hill on F1 is good for tanks with bad gun depression as is the riverbed if your enemy managed to enter it.

Edited by Derethim, 12 November 2017 - 07:37 PM.


TungstenHitman #7 Posted 12 November 2017 - 09:12 PM

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Don't have to worry about that now anyway, was going to try and continue grinding tanks, this time the T-10 HT for a change but instead I go this when I logged in...

 

 

110 battles yesterday, grinding two light tank lines as you guys probably know, certainly not the "pushing ally into enemy fire" type of tanks so can only remember one UGLY battle in all those otherwise standard WOT battles in which a noob lkv thought I should suicide scout across the middle part of Swamp map so spams me and insults be before taking offence to me telling him to shut the f*** up and was clearly coming around to push me or 1 shot me no doubt about it imo I'm experience enough to know but I was wise to it and moved then annoyed as I was at this idiot who simply wouldn't let me play the game unless I did it HIS way or die, I shoved him.. then saw sense and as any player should in those situations, I simply tried to get away to another place and avoid this guy, just get on with the battle and grind this tank out but I nearly flipped over and in those moments he had come across to line up his killer shot on my paper tank so it kicked off again...

 

You guys can take a look if you like since I'm waiting an appeal. Stupid? no doubt about but I'm not perfect nor do I pretend to be but in this instance I was clearly just trying to do my own thing and play a normal battle but this can and does happen. Point being I actually didn't complain him, I'm still not, neither of us are dirty players imo since neither turned blue even after the repeatedly tried to one shot me with HE rounds and was just a case of stupid situation, just one battle out of 100+ that day and I moved on to the next, no biggy, or so I thought... until I tried to log in and obviously this crybaby who thinks he can couch general and bully boy other players on what to do or die, has not just the nerve but success in getting me banned for this, not just for an hour, not just for a day but a week.. honestly they wonder why players wash their hands of this game it ain't like it hasn't bad enough faults as it is.

 

Take a look and by all means have fun with the comments I don't take offence never do never will so I won't report any insults. I already admit was a stupid situation but as stated was just one of those rare battles and keep in mind I was just trying to play my own battle and grind out a tank. Enjoy the show!! ;):popcorn:

 

http://wotreplays.eu/site/3935261#swamp-tungstenhitman-amx_12_t

 

BTW you might not agree with the scouting either, fine, that said, note the other light tanks spread so I noticed both flanks were covered and therefore I just went as far forward as I dared to cover the middle with binocs which I did do and was doing until that map spamming raging couch general got fixed on me

 

 

 

 



Dava_117 #8 Posted 12 November 2017 - 09:20 PM

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Spoiler

So, did you TK him or he somehow managed to report you and have his report accepted? I didn't understand it... (sorry for that, I'm just tired and apparently may brain doesn't want to connect... :teethhappy: ;)



TungstenHitman #9 Posted 12 November 2017 - 09:31 PM

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View PostDava_117, on 12 November 2017 - 08:20 PM, said:

Spoiler

So, did you TK him or he somehow managed to report you and have his report accepted? I didn't understand it... (sorry for that, I'm just tired and apparently may brain doesn't want to connect... :teethhappy: ;)

 

No, it's just the tier6 AMX I was grinding so it wouldn't have that sort of 1 shot power so I tried to shove him instead. He twice tried to 1 shot me with HE rounds however but failed and didn't fancy chancing 3 in a row knowing he would get banned so for my part, I firstly shoved him because I was annoyed at the map spamming, comments and insults plus was 100% under no doubt, despite the fact he drove passed me that he came over to 1 shot me like typical scout killing bully boys and would have "accidentally" killed me sooner or later once I was back trying to play my own game so I shoved him which was about all I could think of in that moment but then saw a better option which all players should do and that was to just go... just go to another part of the map even if that's not where or what you want to do but I flipped momentarily since I was still annoyed and in this moment he came across to 1 shot me.. was just an ugly situation but the 1 in 100+ battles, not a rare thing to witness, stupid and certainly forgettable but instead he obliviously moans to WG even though he set the whole ugly shitfest in motion and I get a weeks ban.

xX_Erwin_Von_Braun_Xx #10 Posted 12 November 2017 - 10:09 PM

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TungstenHitman, on 12 November 2017 - 09:31 PM, said:

 

No, it's just the tier6 AMX I was grinding so it wouldn't have that sort of 1 shot power so I tried to shove him instead. He twice tried to 1 shot me with HE rounds however but failed and didn't fancy chancing 3 in a row knowing he would get banned so for my part, I firstly shoved him because I was annoyed at the map spamming, comments and insults plus was 100% under no doubt, despite the fact he View Postdrove passed me that he came over to 1 shot me like typical scout killing bully boys and would have "accidentally" killed me sooner or later once I was back trying to play my own game so I shoved him which was about all I could think of in that moment but then saw a better option which all players should do and that was to just go... just go to another part of the map even if that's not where or what you want to do but I flipped momentarily since I was still annoyed and in this moment he came across to 1 shot me.. was just an ugly situation but the 1 in 100+ battles, not a rare thing to witness, stupid and certainly forgettable but instead he obliviously moans to WG even though he set the whole ugly shitfest in motion and I get a weeks ban.

 

I think you just reported by all team. You go to silly bush and sit with binos and not spot 0 line which is best place to spot. You sit for long time in bush and enemy must not be coming but you sit there with no team behind you to shoot. Team ask you to spot and you do not move to spot 0 line.  Then enemy do go 0 line and if you had gone there first you would have spot them. You now reverse and you now in bad place and no use.  Drive around like noob in circles. push LKV for no reason. All he say is go spot, and you say "STFU [rude word]".

 

You swear first and he not shoot you or push you. All he do is say "spot". That is not big crime. But when he drive to bush near you which is good bush for TD you push him first. You touch his tank first and you push him into enemy. You go angry first just because he say "spot" to light tank that was in bad spot position. You deserve ban and should have for much longer. You need learn play 12t on that map, and do not push your team into enemy fire. After than it two children together so unlucky he not get ban. But he try to shoot enemy. You still try and rage at him. You both bad, but you 90% as you start by pushing him into enemy. That could end his game, but enemy were very bad.

 

You total noob, who behave toxic, and put replay up when you bigger idiot. Deserve ban 100%.


Edited by Nvidia_GTX_970, 12 November 2017 - 10:17 PM.


Brodie_ #11 Posted 12 November 2017 - 10:14 PM

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Carefully like others have said.

But with intent!

If your in one of the really slow one's it is still posible, even in the TOG!

 

But unfortunately, if your team are a total bunch of Gibbons...

 

There really is no hope...

 

However!

If your team have more than one brain cell.

it is certainly do'able.

In general in a heavy you push either of the West of East flank.

The West is really hard to push because unless the enemy are a complete bunch of Gibbons themselves. They will murder you with flanking fire as you try to go around & up the hill.

 

I have seen this tactic work many times though.

Even when I have been actively trying to stop that push from the centre. If enough go at once & your team are donkeys it works.

 

I have tried going East & then trying to force my way down the river bed to the West.

You can often win the initial fight at the ridge.

But crossing that ridge is almost suicide!

 

Now I generally try to push the extreme East flank.

You need a spotter, or you have no chance, unless using binnos.

It is one of the few times I use HE.

Mainly because if there are enemy there, then they are often strong when hull down.

HE generally makes them back off!

That is the oppertunity, to cross & allow you to hit them at close quarters over a ridge line.

 

Sand river is a fantastic map for all classes, except heavies...

But a heavy can still be very effective.

 

Cheers & good luck!

 

(Though in my TOG. I generally head West, & plow down the Sand river itself. By the time you get there, you will see how the game is going... ;))


Edited by Brodie_, 12 November 2017 - 10:16 PM.


Dava_117 #12 Posted 12 November 2017 - 10:33 PM

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Spoiler

 

Oh. I see... hard yo make an idea without looking at the replay... If I can, I will take a look at it tomorrow...

But from you post, looks like a bad day.

I had my first ban in a similar way. I was tired and upset because of a losing streack and TK a frindly HT camping with TDs. 

It's just the duration of your ban that may be strange, but I don't know how is your ban history...



TungstenHitman #13 Posted 12 November 2017 - 10:35 PM

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Well in pretty much every battle I've seen on this map the heavies pretty much play out this way but it's hardly effective most the time apart from when the attacking heavies are effective at E1 and slowly pressing while hull down at F0 but for the defending team, never really understood what they were trying to do.

 


Edited by TungstenHitman, 12 November 2017 - 10:40 PM.


ExclamationMark #14 Posted 12 November 2017 - 10:55 PM

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Since you asked so nicely.

 

From North spawn: 

- if there's arty, play G5. Be aware that if you over-extend around the corner, and there's TDs on the enemy team, they're highly likely to be at H0 waiting to shoot you

- you can alternatively play A7/8 if there's arty, you will get less damage here but will have more impact on the game (the mid isn't an important point on this map)

- if there's no arty play K5. You can also play here if there is, but you can be pretty sure you'll be focused

 

From South:

- if there's arty, play G6

- you can alternatively play B0

- if there's no arty play K4/5, tho those positions are somewhat safe due to the ridges. You're hittable but it's difficult 



Ilknur_Ibryam #15 Posted 12 November 2017 - 11:21 PM

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Rush k0 if you play a fast heavy. This is what I do with my T10 and usually works.

TungstenHitman #16 Posted 13 November 2017 - 12:00 AM

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View PostNvidia_GTX_970, on 12 November 2017 - 09:09 PM, said:

 

....

 

Nah, all other sides and angles of approach were covered by the other light tanks, I actually look at minimap and I'm very aware of settings, teammate position and where I went was predictable yes, but at that point, so early in the battle, with no support was the correct call. Nothing worse than 2 or all light tanks going the same place, in this battle, was a perfect spread. I wasn't going to yolo into the middle of the map I was already scouting for just 1 TD with the lowest dpm of any tank on the field, clearly if I had done so I was dead.

I scouted the approaching LTs and he himself, chose to engage them instead of retreating to cover and he took a few shots so based on him getting shot which was his own fault, what he said and map pinging before that, and the comments and insult as he approached me I had no doubt that he was coming around to push me or 1 shot me so when he went passed I wrongfully pushed him, no argument here, my bad but was a knee-jerk reaction to what I saw as an immediate threat and garage time for me so I pushed him, then chilled, saw sense and took off away from him but I saw him lining up on me from the corner of my eye and then it turned real ugly at that point.

 

View PostDava_117, on 12 November 2017 - 09:33 PM, said:

Spoiler

 

It's just the duration of your ban that may be strange, but I don't know how is your ban history...

 

Ya pretty much this. I'm not saying I was an angel in that battle and I shouldn't have pushed him of course. But this situation can develop every so often in this game it's nothing too rare. Like I said was over 100 battles that day, more the day before and weeks before, not much problems, standard WoT but to get a weeks ban for pushing someone I thought was going to kill me for not scouting the way he thought I should is the only protest I have.

This is not every battle, I did not kill him or start teeing off on him with my autoloader, I didn't turn blue, I try to get away and 1 week? Players kill other players on purpose, don't even turn blue, they do it again maybe turn blue and then again maybe a ban, for 1 hour, then they do all this again real soon they get a day, same again real soon, a week. But for me it's immediately a week for pushing a guy? A guy who raged at me, focused on me and whom I thought was for sure going to kill me and he actually DID try to kill me, twice try and kill me.. pretty harsh I would have thought, give me an hour maybe ok, even go mad and give me a 24hr ban for doing this in just 1 battle in 100 but a bloody week? I had no prior bans or warnings or whatever at that point, makes no sense.


Edited by TungstenHitman, 13 November 2017 - 12:06 AM.


clixor #17 Posted 13 November 2017 - 12:13 AM

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View PostTungstenHitman, on 12 November 2017 - 09:31 PM, said:

 

No, it's just the tier6 AMX I was grinding so it wouldn't have that sort of 1 shot power so I tried to shove him instead. He twice tried to 1 shot me with HE rounds however but failed and didn't fancy chancing 3 in a row knowing he would get banned so for my part, I firstly shoved him because I was annoyed at the map spamming, comments and insults plus was 100% under no doubt, despite the fact he drove passed me that he came over to 1 shot me like typical scout killing bully boys and would have "accidentally" killed me sooner or later once I was back trying to play my own game so I shoved him which was about all I could think of in that moment but then saw a better option which all players should do and that was to just go... just go to another part of the map even if that's not where or what you want to do but I flipped momentarily since I was still annoyed and in this moment he came across to 1 shot me.. was just an ugly situation but the 1 in 100+ battles, not a rare thing to witness, stupid and certainly forgettable but instead he obliviously moans to WG even though he set the whole ugly shitfest in motion and I get a weeks ban.

 

saw the replay, and there is no reason whatsoever to assume the ikv was going to tk you. I didn't even see much map spamming and insults by him. So your pushing was really unprovoked and ban is deserved.

 

edit. i do think ban is a bit long though, but thing to remember is that this sort of toxic behavior really should be dealt with, it's just ruining the whole gaming experience for a lot of us.


Edited by clixor, 13 November 2017 - 12:19 AM.


xX_Erwin_Von_Braun_Xx #18 Posted 13 November 2017 - 12:25 AM

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View PostTungstenHitman, on 13 November 2017 - 12:00 AM, said:

Nah, all other sides and angles of approach were covered by the other light tanks, I actually look at minimap and I'm very aware of settings, teammate position and where I went was predictable yes, but at that point, so early in the battle, with no support was the correct call. Nothing worse than 2 or all light tanks going the same place, in this battle, was a perfect spread. I wasn't going to yolo into the middle of the map I was already scouting for just 1 TD with the lowest dpm of any tank on the field, clearly if I had done so I was dead.

I scouted the approaching LTs and he himself, chose to engage them instead of retreating to cover and he took a few shots so based on him getting shot which was his own fault, what he said and map pinging before that, and the comments and insult as he approached me I had no doubt that he was coming around to push me or 1 shot me so when he went passed I wrongfully pushed him, no argument here, my bad but was a knee-jerk reaction to what I saw as an immediate threat and garage time for me so I pushed him, then chilled, saw sense and took off away from him but I saw him lining up on me from the corner of my eye and then it turned real ugly at that point.

 

If other sides were covered by other light tanks they would have spotted enemy. You had best chance to get to best bush to spot zero line. Every one knows that stopping enemy going up zero line is best way to win that map. If you think different that your issue on map control knowledge.

 

How he play is matter for him. If you expert in his tank you can advise. Maybe he listen, maybe he doesn't. If you want to be FC then maybe play SH or TB. In random games maybe try play your tank better first. You assume he going to do something to you but you do not know.

 

Fact is you push him first, so you total noob. You cannot control your temper and now come on forum like spoilt child asking for comment. What you expect? If you not understand how to play your tank, and get angry because a TD say "spot" when you in light tank then you have big issues. Do you not think many TD or Arty say "spot". Is this new concept to you in World of Tanks?

 

Just because he noob also, does not change fact you total noob in this game. You do almost nothing right, and almost everything wrong. What you expect, a medal for being a noob?


Edited by Nvidia_GTX_970, 13 November 2017 - 12:26 AM.


TungstenHitman #19 Posted 13 November 2017 - 12:43 AM

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View Postclixor, on 12 November 2017 - 11:13 PM, said:

 

edit. i do think ban is a bit long though, but thing to remember is that this sort of toxic behavior really should be dealt with, it's just ruining the whole gaming experience for a lot of us.

 

Yes me included mate including toxic map spamming noobs that blame experienced players for their own failings and not doing what they want them to do or charging head first into the middle of a deathzone on a tiny map at the begging of a battle in which all other channels were covered by teammate light tanks and when no teammates were there even shoot what I would have potentially spotted and been killed by, you think this toxic behavior is fair also? I based my assumptions that he was coming around to TK me based on those very facts and we've all seen it many times. 

TBH this is exactly why I moved away from light tanks, if I was using one of my MTs or TDs, what happened in that battle doesn't happen at all and I am not banned, fact. You guys know exactly what I'm talking about, I'm not taking about the clicking on some noob in his LT or top tier stronk HT redlining the back of the map but facts of this game are there are experienced players get raged at and "all team report" for playing the game sensibly, including heavy tanks to a lessor extent, you see some noob raging at a Tiger1 for not charging head first into all enemy tanks and other noobs agreeing and reporting, is this toxic behavior fair?

It's an interesting topic really, we get such a mix of experience and skill levels, all with our various opinions, of course looking at a replay is somewhat pointless as it's the here and the now that decisions are made and mistakes are made but all this expectations and experience differences and stock tanks and fully upgraded tanks and tank classes and maps etc etc churns up a big mess, unfair attention, fair attention, misinterpretations of what is happening or going to happen etc etc.. I've got to grind on with these light tanks there's no other way around it I want those tier9 mediums. That said, as I've already mentioned, this was just 1 battle from 100 or 200 or God knows how many otherwise normal battles without this sort of trash but of course we all get fired up in this game rightfully or wrongfully and will always continue to do so, nature of the game but a weeks ban for pushing someone I thought was going to kill and did try to kill in just one battle? Madness 


Edited by TungstenHitman, 13 November 2017 - 12:43 AM.


_Anarchistic_ #20 Posted 13 November 2017 - 01:15 AM

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with no arty anyway you want, with 3 arty just go garage




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