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9.21 - British AT TD armor buffs - and I thought that 9.21 was a neat patch without retarded changes...

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leggasiini #1 Posted 13 November 2017 - 09:02 AM

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AT 2

 

Spoiler

 

AT 8

 

Spoiler

 

 

AT 7

 

Spoiler

 

 

AT 15

 

Spoiler

 

 

Tortoise

 

Spoiler

 

----

 

So basically:

 

- AT 2's frontal armor got big nerf so you can gold spam it to death with some tanks but the cupola remains unnerfed... EXACTLY the wrong way of nerfing the tank

- AT 8 loses all of it's weakspots. If you thought the O-I had retarded armor...what about 152 mm rounded cupola at tier 6?

- AT 7 is like AT 8, though not AS stupid because at least the cupola is still pennable

- AT 15 gets buffs to UFP, cupola sides are buffed and mantlet weakspot is gone

- Tortoise gets roof buff and some parts of armor are 300, and cupola has stronger areas like AT 15, making it a smaller weakspot

 

The tier 5, 6 and arguably 7 are really dumb changes IMO. The tier 8 and 9 will also be a bitch to fight against, but at least they still have weakspot unlike lower tiers, especially the tier 6. The AT 2 changes are stupid as they should have nerfed the cupola, not keep the way it is and nerf anything else. With that, you can just gold spam the tank which is really stupid.

 

Soo...necessarity to use gold ammo gradually increases patch by patch, just as usual...

 


Edited by leggasiini, 13 November 2017 - 09:06 AM.


StrikeFIN #2 Posted 13 November 2017 - 09:08 AM

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AT2 overnerfed and other ATs buffed (AT8 overbuffed), way to go.

Edited by StrikeFIN, 13 November 2017 - 09:09 AM.


Duvelske #3 Posted 13 November 2017 - 09:10 AM

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Start complaining when the public test is online and you actually played it

jack_timber #4 Posted 13 November 2017 - 09:11 AM

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Just replied on StrikeFINs post shame about AT2...

Looks like it's back to the AT8 then:)


Edited by jack_timber, 13 November 2017 - 09:13 AM.


Dr_Oolen #5 Posted 13 November 2017 - 09:15 AM

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tbh the at15 and tortoise are buffed in a way id buff them aswell for the most part - as in making everything except cupola not pennable by same tier regular ammo most of the time (so in at15s case that would be +- 240 effective; in case of tort +- 275) while changing the cupolas in such a way that, say, 35% of them are easy pen for same/higher tiers and 65% easy pen for -2 tiers. Meaning that in case of at15 35% of the cupola would be +-200 and the rest +- 110; on tortoise +-220 and +-140. So for those 2 tanks i think WG shouldnt have buffed the cupolas that much, the parts they overbuffed should be weak enough to be pennable by same/higher tier tanks reliably and should be smaller. 

 

AT7 - im fine with them buffing the front facing MG, which is exactly what i would have done, but they should have left the back facing MG and the cupola as weak as they are now.

 

AT6 - here they went full retard indeed, they should have buffed the right side of the tank, but left the cupolas to be same as now

 

AT2 - yep, only should have nerfed cupola to be +- 85 effective flat on (thus going to +- 105 at the edged rather than 125+)



leggasiini #6 Posted 13 November 2017 - 09:18 AM

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Yeah I agree, the AT 15 and Tortoise changes are not as bad as the tier 5-7. At least the cupola is still a some kind of weakspot.

CaptainThunderWalker #7 Posted 13 November 2017 - 09:25 AM

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View PostDuvelske, on 13 November 2017 - 09:10 AM, said:

Start complaining when the public test is online and you actually played it

 

You don't need to play that to know these buffs/nerfs are just going to be not fun for everybody. Normally I'm inclined to agree with this sentiment, but Wargaming's recent vodka balancing really makes playtesting no longer necessary.

 

AT2 really should have its weakspot nerfed, not its front plate, lol. Now it's just a gold magnet, instead of teaching people to aim for the cupola (which appearantly is thicker now?!).

 

AT8... well, weakest point is 152mm of armor which is hidden behind 203 mm weakspots and rounded? People hated the O-I already, this thing is far worse to deal with armor wise now.

Let's put it like this; the tanks with the lowest pen that can meet it on the same flank without being able to avoid it should be able to pen the weakspot. With standard ammo...

 

AT7 has the same armor as the AT8 one tier higher, so it's less of a problem.

That and arty gets to use 203mm guns on this tier, so...

 

AT15? Weakspot on the cupola makes it at least possible, but not all guns on Tier VIII are accurate to actually hit that. Dab the two key or play a big fat derpy howitzer, or get out.

 

Tortoise... I think those buffs are fair, though I think 171mm of armor behind a MG port is a bit too much. Should be less - a Chi-Ri or IS-2 should be able to pen the weakspot (being too slow to flank and all) and currently they aren't really.

 

That and how do you use a MG port with so much armor behind it? MG ports should be weakspots on all tanks (except those with no armor to speak of anyway).


Edited by CaptainThunderWalker, 13 November 2017 - 09:32 AM.


Thejagdpanther #8 Posted 13 November 2017 - 09:56 AM

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I would like to ear the players that during the years claimed that "premium ammo" are good for the game.

That's the results.

 

The wg f..p with this ammo in the past is so crystal clear that deny that is how deny the sunlight.

Now the ""balancing"" department is working for ""fix"" this ""issue"".

:teethhappy:



Dr_Oolen #9 Posted 13 November 2017 - 10:51 AM

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i guess its time to grind british AT line in next patch, for ultimate memes

 

makes you think tho, wg is perfectly happy overbuffing anything with any armor whatsoever, but when they buff paper tanks they still leave them completely useless even after the buff :XD


Edited by Dr_Oolen, 13 November 2017 - 10:58 AM.


Ziurawka #10 Posted 13 November 2017 - 11:58 AM

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I don't get how there changes are stupid in any way, the gigantic cupola on tier VI / VII is still the same thickness as this:

Plus this has a turret. 

It's perfectly understandable that they want to make the line playable, I don't think though they will manage to make them valid this way. 

These tanks are so limited in use it's ridiculous, with the tiny gun arcs and maneuverability of a brick it will be still extremely hard to position them on the battlefield. 

 



tajj7 #11 Posted 13 November 2017 - 12:33 PM

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AT-2 change is silly but that tank has been a bit silly for years anyway.

 

AT-7 to Tortoise IMO are fine, they still have weakspots and they are what they should be which is assault tanks.

 

Only really AT-8 is the issue because it has no weakspots

 

I'd say the Tortoise and AT-15 changes are spot on (the AT-15A btw has pretty much the same armour a tier lower with limited MM and no one complains about that) the Torty currently has nothing as a TD on tier 9 aside it's fabled DPM which is only really useful if we had WOT Top trumps. 



ZlatanArKung #12 Posted 13 November 2017 - 12:40 PM

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View PostThejagdpanther, on 13 November 2017 - 09:56 AM, said:

I would like to ear the players that during the years claimed that "premium ammo" are good for the game.

That's the results.

 

The wg f..p with this ammo in the past is so crystal clear that deny that is how deny the sunlight.

Now the ""balancing"" department is working for ""fix"" this ""issue"".

:teethhappy:

 

A few years ago, premium ammo was a non issue since it wasn't needed. Regular ammo was enough to pen any tank you met frontally if you aimed correctly. And the other areas mostly bounced premium ammo aswell.

 

Now, that is not the case anymore. Instead we have a new armour policy that dictates that armour should withstand regular ammo but be pennable by premium ammo.



ares354 #13 Posted 13 November 2017 - 01:04 PM

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View Posttajj7, on 13 November 2017 - 12:33 PM, said:

AT-2 change is silly but that tank has been a bit silly for years anyway.

 

AT-7 to Tortoise IMO are fine, they still have weakspots and they are what they should be which is assault tanks.

 

Only really AT-8 is the issue because it has no weakspots

 

I'd say the Tortoise and AT-15 changes are spot on (the AT-15A btw has pretty much the same armour a tier lower with limited MM and no one complains about that) the Torty currently has nothing as a TD on tier 9 aside it's fabled DPM which is only really useful if we had WOT Top trumps. 

 

OFC Everyone WHO know you well will know you will say this. Tier 7 wont be able to pen Tortie if he hide cupola, GREAT balance for TD with best DPM. 

I will point you that JT get pen into hull by every tier 9 and 10 with np. Tortie with his DPM have one weakspot for normal ammo, GREAT balance by British bias. 

You are blind fanboy. Tortie will be next T95....

Edited by ares354, 13 November 2017 - 01:05 PM.


tajj7 #14 Posted 13 November 2017 - 01:44 PM

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View Postares354, on 13 November 2017 - 12:04 PM, said:

 

OFC Everyone WHO know you well will know you will say this. Tier 7 wont be able to pen Tortie if he hide cupola, GREAT balance for TD with best DPM. 

I will point you that JT get pen into hull by every tier 9 and 10 with np. Tortie with his DPM have one weakspot for normal ammo, GREAT balance by British bias. 

You are blind fanboy. Tortie will be next T95....

 

:facepalm:

 

Please think through how the game actually works before you make these idiotic statements.

 

Where are the weakspots on hull down Kranvagns, IS7s, E3s etc. all those tanks are faster than a Tortoise, two have turrets and the latter has a 750 alpha gun.

 

Plus being hull down is WAY EASIER than hiding a cupola weakspot. 

 

The Tortoise is a TD that is super slow, has low alpha, low pen for a TD, no turret. All it has it's armour and DPM, thus its armour should be good and if people position themselves well in a Tortoise and hide their weakspot then of course if should be bloody strong otherwise what is the point of the tank?

 

You could, I don't know, not sit in front of a Tortoise that is hiding it's weakspots, not like the tank is hard to run away or out move is it when it goes 20 kph and has no turret. 

 

The Jagdtiger is faster than a Torty, has more pen, more alpha and hull down is going to be just as strong. A hull down Jagtiger is a scary proposition, but apparently a Tortoise using a corner to hide it's weak spot should be much weaker by your logic.

 

Yeh I think we all know who the biased fan boy is and it isn't me. Tortoise will be nothing like the T95, it's weakspot is much bigger, more obvious and less easier to hide, it's main armour will be susceptible to premium rounds, it's got worse camo and has almost half the alpha damage, most tanks will be fine taking a 400 damage hit to track a Tortoise and get round it. Plus it has much worse side armour and doesn't have the strong double tracks.  T95s can drive at people in the open and are still a pain to damage because the weakspots are tiny and troll, plus it hits for 750. The Tortoise will get murdered doing the same. 

 

 


Edited by tajj7, 13 November 2017 - 02:03 PM.


Strappster #15 Posted 13 November 2017 - 01:50 PM

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View Posttajj7, on 13 November 2017 - 11:33 AM, said:

I'd say the Tortoise and AT-15 changes are spot on (the AT-15A btw has pretty much the same armour a tier lower with limited MM and no one complains about that) ...

 

Probably because it only tickles people with that 17-pdr gun. Tier 8 heavies can comfortably deal with actual threats while bouncing shot after shot from the 15A.

 

I'm ok with these changes, it might tempt me to pick up the AT line again ... at least until I remember how bloody slow they are.



TankkiPoju #16 Posted 13 November 2017 - 01:51 PM

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View Posttajj7, on 13 November 2017 - 12:33 PM, said:

the AT-15A btw has pretty much the same armour a tier lower with limited MM and no one complains about that

 

Probably because AT-15A also has a pew pew gun with mediocre DPM... people dont really see it as a threat.

 

EDIT: Strappster got it already!

 

I am happy Tortoise got buffs, I always feel sorry for that tank.


Edited by TankkiPoju, 13 November 2017 - 01:53 PM.


Thejagdpanther #17 Posted 13 November 2017 - 01:55 PM

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View PostZlatanArKung, on 13 November 2017 - 12:40 PM, said:

A few years ago, premium ammo was a non issue since it wasn't needed. Regular ammo was enough to pen any tank you met frontally if you aimed correctly. And the other areas mostly bounced premium ammo aswell.

 

Now, that is not the case anymore. Instead we have a new armour policy that dictates that armour should withstand regular ammo but be pennable by premium ammo.

 

Sorry but I have a totally different view.

The armour policy is the direct consequence of the prem ammo policy. Both bad policy of course.

If gold ammo wasnt needed why put them for credits?

Now we are watching the ""balancing department"" putting steel plates at randoms for obvius reasons, but again, building up different problems.


Edited by Thejagdpanther, 13 November 2017 - 01:59 PM.


Balc0ra #18 Posted 13 November 2017 - 02:03 PM

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View Postleggasiini, on 13 November 2017 - 09:02 AM, said:

 

- AT 2's frontal armor got big nerf so you can gold spam it to death with some tanks but the cupola remains unnerfed... EXACTLY the wrong way of nerfing the tank

- AT 8 loses all of it's weakspots. If you thought the O-I had retarded armor...what about 152 mm rounded cupola at tier 6?

- AT 7 is like AT 8, though not AS stupid because at least the cupola is still pennable

- AT 15 gets buffs to UFP, cupola sides are buffed and mantlet weakspot is gone

- Tortoise gets roof buff and some parts of armor are 300, and cupola has stronger areas like AT 15, making it a smaller weakspot

 

The tier 5, 6 and arguably 7 are really dumb changes IMO. The tier 8 and 9 will also be a bitch to fight against, but at least they still have weakspot unlike lower tiers, especially the tier 6. The AT 2 changes are stupid as they should have nerfed the cupola, not keep the way it is and nerf anything else. With that, you can just gold spam the tank which is really stupid.

 

Soo...necessarity to use gold ammo gradually increases patch by patch, just as usual...

 

 

Well first off they are assault TD's. Not camping TD's. But most of them were only that for a week when they first came. Everyone pens them head on now anyway. So some needed a buff. In the many topics about them the past few weeks since everyone is gunning for the 183. The common complaint has been "useless armor". And more or less everyone have said the only good thing about the Tortoise is the gun. As everything pens it.

 

AT-2 has always been stupid, the 101mm hatch should have been 90 at best even when it came. And did it really need 201mm head on armor? I mean it did face tier 3's when it arrived. No one ever pens that thing. It needed something. And when I played it last, no one went for cupola. And when most guns it faces as top tier has 80 to 110 mm pen... 201 is not something it needs.

 

AT-8 armor I can agree on , cupola I kinda can't. Again it's an assault TD. It should lack weak spots on the hull. But 152 on the cupola is the only thing I think is a tad to much for a tier 6.

 

AT-7 is at a tier atm where it's neither an assault or support TD. It's 100% useless in a tier 9 game, and kinda as fast in a tier 7 game when it does it's job. It's more of a 2nd line TD as everyone pens it easy. Now it can at least do the assault job at tier 7-8. 

 

AT-15 more or less gets the same as the AT-15A. And no one complains about that one tier down. That mantle weak spot is what made it 100% useless. AT-15A lost that over a year ago.

 

Tortoise needed it. It's armor was it's HP pool and the DPM. So you could trade half your HP to take out an E100. And the right front side got penned by everything just like the cupolas. And as going by all the topics the past weeks. Everyone agrees, it's armor is 100% useless atm. So again, I agree on the armor layout. It is as it should be, just like most tier 9/10 assault TD's atm. Tho again I kinda agree the cupola might be a bit to much.

 

They are assault TD's, just like the T28 and T95 that most can't reliably pen head on. Tho none of them besides the AT-2 feels like it atm. Now, they just might.



Search_Warrant #19 Posted 13 November 2017 - 02:07 PM

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View PostStrappster, on 13 November 2017 - 12:50 PM, said:

 

Probably because it only tickles people with that 17-pdr gun. Tier 8 heavies can comfortably deal with actual threats while bouncing shot after shot from the 15A.

 

I'm ok with these changes, it might tempt me to pick up the AT line again ... at least until I remember how bloody slow they are.

 

Why? the tier 8 has a freaking 220pen gun.. at tier8... thats worse than same tier heavys. disgusting.

ares354 #20 Posted 13 November 2017 - 02:09 PM

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View Posttajj7, on 13 November 2017 - 01:44 PM, said:

 

:facepalm:

 

Please think through how the game actually works before you make these idiotic statements.

 

Where are the weakspots on hull down Kranvagns, IS7s, E3s etc. all those tanks are faster than a Tortoise, two have turrets and the latter has a 750 alpha gun.

 

Plus being hull down is WAY EASIER than hiding a cupola weakspot. 

 

The Tortoise is a TD that is super slow, has low alpha, low pen for a TD, no turret. All it has it's armour and DPM, thus its armour should be good and if people position themselves well in a Tortoise and hide their weakspot then of course if should be bloody strong otherwise what is the point of the tank?

 

You could, I don't know, not sit in front of a Tortoise that is hiding it's weakspots, not like the tank is hard to run away or out move is it when it goes 20 kph and has no turret. 

 

The Jagdtiger is faster than a Torty, has more pen, more alpha and hull down is going to be just as strong. A hull down Jagtiger is a scary proposition, but apparently a Tortoise using a corner to hide it's weak spot should be much weaker by your logic.

 

Yeh I think we all know who the biased fan boy is and it isn't me. 

 

 

 

Kran weakspot is hull, HIS DPM is abysmal, gun stats as well, his reload is long and unload in long as well. Lower plate will pen all tank he meet and HE is HT not TD. 

E3 goes 24 not over 30 like new Budger. He dont have top DPM in game, so this is one reason for insane armor. He is slow, easy to flank or perma track. He dont have Tortie gun arc!! IS 7hull is wekaspot, gun is trsh, dpm is low, no gun dep, not insane aim time or dpm...

All tanks you talk about are tier 10, ffs. Tortie is tier 9. 

Hide cupola is easy, you dont fight where u cant hid your weakspots...

Low pen for 0.3 acc? What can say Foch, Su 122 54 ? 400 is fine for best DPM in game, 259 pen with 0.3 acc vs SU 122 54 258 AP pen and 0,35 acc. JT is usper slow as well, he has better top speed and abysmal hull armor in compere. So if he hide ONE weakspot he will have left for low tier IS FINE TO REKT other tank. I can in WZ 111 go [edited]myself when I meet new Tortie COZ HE NEED ARMOR and SICK DPM plus SICK GUN ? You have 0!!! idea of balance. IF Tortie get armor buff, NERF HIS GUN, WG buff top speed of t95 and dont nerf rest, NOW WE HAVE broken TD, Tortie will be next. 

No sit in front, IF I AM top tier, my job is to fight tier 9 tanks...if you wont fight top tier he will kill low tiers...

JT has more top speed, he is not faster. JT has worse power to weight, and more top speed, do research btw. Gun have more pen but dont have so good gun arc. Hull down JT is shooted with premium ammo and pen easy. Hes Tortie using corner should have weakspot, JT can use corner, SU 122 54 cant, many TD cant use corner as Tortie can...Insane gun and dpm plus armor with no weakspot for low tiers is ONLY good idea if tank is British... TORTOISE was crapin real life, like Maus. 

You are biased fool...


@Balc0ra

You know that ONLY Tortie was ever build in this line of assault TD ? What about German assault TD, they can have front full of weakspots ? HOW MANY weakspot Ferdi have over T28 or AT 15 ? lower plate, hull cheeks, for over 240 pen front itself...

JT hull is weakspot for all gun he meet, for GOLD PEN is 250 mm armor is weakspot....MOST ARMORED WW II TD ever build and see combat, unlike Tortie. 

JP e100, wekaspot in front on hull ,and for gold ammo, all front is weakspot....

 Soviet 263 TD changes will get insane armor buffs, new buff to British line of armored TD. Tortie had worse armor in real life then JT, but in this game it wont be case anymore..German assault TD need to have front full of weakspots. 

Edited by ares354, 13 November 2017 - 02:20 PM.






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