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PRIMATES ATTACK: Assault - Sand River


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zeekaa00 #1 Posted 13 November 2017 - 06:07 PM

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The map is too complex for majority of players. I love it that it is hard to crack the defending team but there are some issues.

Problems:
1. Very difficult and risky to spot from the mid ridge
2. People go right and get trapped. When they attack, they get demolished from the mid ridge pretty quickly.
3. Their scouts dominate the mid ridge in most cases because people don't snipe them. They are also very safe on the defending side.
4. The left side is easier to attack, but people climb on the hill instead and "wait in ambush" :)

I LOVE Sandriver, especially assault mode, but the defending side dominates far too often. I think at least the right side should have an alternate route behind(around) that hill. (If you understand).

Do you agree?

Edited by zeekaa00, 13 November 2017 - 06:07 PM.


Bennie182 #2 Posted 13 November 2017 - 06:11 PM

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It's a pretty tough map and the middle part is useless, except for spotting. I never go there anymore with heavies, since it's just taking hits, instead of being able to progress to something.

 

Nice shirt btw =p



wsatnutter #3 Posted 13 November 2017 - 06:12 PM

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are you taking the ape

Enforcer1975 #4 Posted 13 November 2017 - 07:30 PM

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1. Yes it is, i often go east flank as an attacker to spot ahead peeking the ridgeline and shooting the tanks in the side that went down the middle....the thing is they all hang around on the hills where the enemy is outside their render range. If i get lucky i have arty shooting the TDs on that small mound. As a defender i go the same spot just the other side on top of the ridge ofc using that bit ridgeline to protect me from the middle and the usual camper / sniper spots in the middle north.

2. Yep...i am always surprised players still go into that pocket where they can be pinned down by a tank with a strong turret shooting them from the middle. It always goes like this when they bunched up in the corner...

3. They are always too far in the back to shoot them.

4. By left side you mean east flank....yes i


 



Etre_ #5 Posted 13 November 2017 - 08:40 PM

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View Postzeekaa00, on 13 November 2017 - 06:07 PM, said:

The map is too complex for majority of players. I love it that it is hard to crack the defending team but there are some issues.

Problems:
1. Very difficult and risky to spot from the mid ridge
2. People go right and get trapped. When they attack, they get demolished from the mid ridge pretty quickly.
3. Their scouts dominate the mid ridge in most cases because people don't snipe them. They are also very safe on the defending side.
4. The left side is easier to attack, but people climb on the hill instead and "wait in ambush" :)

I LOVE Sandriver, especially assault mode, but the defending side dominates far too often. I think at least the right side should have an alternate route behind(around) that hill. (If you understand).

Do you agree?

 

Point 3 is the key of the game. Usually people are spreading well enough on both sides and that's good. Even on the right side is good to have someone. They can shoot middle. Plus, if the enemy sees there is no one, they might break through with fast tanks. 

 

 

Anyway, the counter for their scouts is quite obvious. Mountain at the limit of 450m. My advice, if you are medium or TD, wait on the semi rounded ridge to see how agressive their scouts are playing. If required, climb the mountain and put a few shots into them. Now they will chill and you can advance.


Edited by Etre_, 13 November 2017 - 08:41 PM.


TheOddRogue #6 Posted 13 November 2017 - 09:08 PM

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View Postzeekaa00, on 13 November 2017 - 05:07 PM, said:

The map is too complex for majority of players. I love it that it is hard to crack the defending team but there are some issues.

Problems:
1. Very difficult and risky to spot from the mid ridge
2. People go right and get trapped. When they attack, they get demolished from the mid ridge pretty quickly.
3. Their scouts dominate the mid ridge in most cases because people don't snipe them. They are also very safe on the defending side.
4. The left side is easier to attack, but people climb on the hill instead and "wait in ambush" :)

I LOVE Sandriver, especially assault mode, but the defending side dominates far too often. I think at least the right side should have an alternate route behind(around) that hill. (If you understand).

Do you agree?

 

Yes it's imbalanced. But i absolutely love it anyway, be it im on the defending or attacking side, it's usually a challange to play nonetheless. The challange from attacking side is to actually manage to win, and the challange from the defending side to is to spot all the camping attackers and do some damage before time runs out. 

 

Luv it, one few maps i love to play no matter what.  



AliceUnchained #7 Posted 13 November 2017 - 09:16 PM

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View Postzeekaa00, on 13 November 2017 - 06:07 PM, said:

I LOVE Sandriver, especially assault mode, but the defending side dominates far too often. I think at least the right side should have an alternate route behind(around) that hill. (If you understand).

Do you agree?

 

Yes, and no. I too really like the map, standard, encounter, and assault, but for whatever reason whenever I am on Defense I end up with a team completely incapable of doing so. Even when it's quite simple to defend effectively. As for your suggestion; it would open up that corner for defenders as well and make it even easier to spot attackers incoming on that side. So I'm not sure if that would actually be an improvement.



Enforcer1975 #8 Posted 13 November 2017 - 09:16 PM

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View PostTheOddRogue, on 13 November 2017 - 09:08 PM, said:

 

Yes it's imbalanced. But i absolutely love it anyway, be it im on the defending or attacking side, it's usually a challange to play nonetheless. The challange from attacking side is to actually manage to win, and the challange from the defending side to is to spot all the camping attackers and do some damage before time runs out.

 

Luv it, one few maps i love to play no matter what. 

 

:great:

AliceUnchained #9 Posted 13 November 2017 - 09:22 PM

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View PostTheOddRogue, on 13 November 2017 - 09:08 PM, said:

 

Yes it's imbalanced. But i absolutely love it anyway, be it im on the defending or attacking side, it's usually a challange to play nonetheless. The challange from attacking side is to actually manage to win, and the challange from the defending side to is to spot all the camping attackers and do some damage before time runs out. 

 

Luv it, one few maps i love to play no matter what.  

 

No challenge; they will be in the Northeast in the mountains... :bush:

suvicze #10 Posted 13 November 2017 - 09:34 PM

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Honestly all this map needs is standard time limit like pretty much all assaults do. 10 minutes is just too little. If your team doesnt die during the first half like idiots and you actually make steady progress through the map with your team you usually run out of time despite the fact that you could easily win if you had that 5 extra minutes. It is especially problematic on sand river as that map is pretty large considering you can access most of it and usually some fast med/light manages to slip through when you have 30s remaining.

Codename_Jelly #11 Posted 13 November 2017 - 09:34 PM

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Map was perfect before the dumbasses at WG changed it.

Rati_Festa #12 Posted 13 November 2017 - 09:53 PM

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A tunnel/path near the on the western side would complete the map for me, as the Op suggested. Expanding assault to 15 mins as well would make it more doable. The 2 sand maps are my favourates as they allow all classes to have a meaningful affect on the game. I doubt wg will change this map though as its already been replicated for hd.

clixor #13 Posted 13 November 2017 - 10:22 PM

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View PostEtre_, on 13 November 2017 - 08:40 PM, said:

 

 

Anyway, the counter for their scouts is quite obvious. Mountain at the limit of 450m. My advice, if you are medium or TD, wait on the semi rounded ridge to see how agressive their scouts are playing. If required, climb the mountain and put a few shots into them. Now they will chill and you can advance.

 

Good point(s). When attacking always be a little patient in the beginning, it's just the nature of light gameplay to DO something, and if they poke or venture too far they usually are dead and then you basically have the light advantage. Ofcourse, when defending this is something you should avoid, just poke a bit but also be patient, no sense to lose hp or your tank.

 

Then, the attacking team has more freedom to spot from the ridges, and any defender that doesnt get safe should be dead as well. At that point it could be 3 or 4 - 0 already and could just snowball from there. But even then, i think sand river attack is indeed one of the maps i lost the most by time running out. Also, 10 min is fine for tier6, but when you are facing MAUSses etc you are looking at a whole bunch more hp you have to chew through.


Edited by clixor, 13 November 2017 - 10:23 PM.


CmdRatScabies #14 Posted 13 November 2017 - 10:25 PM

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View Postzeekaa00, on 13 November 2017 - 06:07 PM, said:

I LOVE Sandriver, especially assault mode, but the defending side dominates far too often. I think at least the right side should have an alternate route behind(around) that hill. (If you understand).

 

Not so fun with three arties, or do you have a method to cope?

zeekaa00 #15 Posted 13 November 2017 - 10:27 PM

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View PostTheOddRogue, on 13 November 2017 - 09:08 PM, said:

 

Yes it's imbalanced. But i absolutely love it anyway, be it im on the defending or attacking side, it's usually a challange to play nonetheless. The challange from attacking side is to actually manage to win, and the challange from the defending side to is to spot all the camping attackers and do some damage before time runs out. 

 

Luv it, one few maps i love to play no matter what.  

 

Love it no matter what...true for me too. I love the difficulty and I am always like a bee, running around the map trying to find my way in, to spot, to harass. But it happens very often that the team just lets you down completely and you get raped by little scouts who just poke, or even worse, drive around the middle free as birds.

That's because half the team gets trapped in one side, and the other half is playing on the hill. TDs don't feel safe to defend the mid ridge, so they set up camp on the hill, or out of frustration, they attack like monkeys.

Edited by zeekaa00, 13 November 2017 - 10:31 PM.


zeekaa00 #16 Posted 13 November 2017 - 10:29 PM

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View PostCmdRatScabies, on 13 November 2017 - 10:25 PM, said:

 

Not so fun with three arties, or do you have a method to cope?

 

Yes, good point. With arties it is even more difficult, and it punishes the aggressive players who want spot and harass. While their scouts and meds in the middle remain safe while poking and spotting.

Codename_Jelly #17 Posted 13 November 2017 - 11:01 PM

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View PostTheOddRogue, on 13 November 2017 - 08:08 PM, said:

 

Yes it's imbalanced. But i absolutely love it anyway, be it im on the defending or attacking side, it's usually a challange to play nonetheless. The challange from attacking side is to actually manage to win, and the challange from the defending side to is to spot all the camping attackers and do some damage before time runs out. 

 

Luv it, one few maps i love to play no matter what.  

 

It never used to be, it was the perfect balance and it did all come down to which team managed to pull their role off better but blizzard went and ruined it.

 

Letting defending tanks get up the middle and lowering the middle shelf too much that people cant use their tanks there anymore as the red line snipers have 0 issues shooting them once spotted.



ir1cx #18 Posted 14 November 2017 - 01:54 PM

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View PostCodename_Jelly, on 13 November 2017 - 10:01 PM, said:

 

It never used to be, it was the perfect balance and it did all come down to which team managed to pull their role off better but blizzard went and ruined it.

 

Letting defending tanks get up the middle and lowering the middle shelf too much that people cant use their tanks there anymore as the red line snipers have 0 issues shooting them once spotted.

 

I made this point in the maps section.  It gives the defending team a big advantage from the start.  Whilst the changes improved game play on Sand River Standard, it completed screwed the balance on Assault whereas before it was about whichever team plays the best wins. It used to be my favourite map.

 

Someone made a point about 10mins not being enough, and too often I've seen attacking team starting to get the upperhand after clearing the middle but not have enough time to win by capping or finishing off opponents.



_Bundesheer_ #19 Posted 14 November 2017 - 02:28 PM

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I have recently deactivated those assualt matches.

Either they are too boring (as defender ofc, especially on Erlenberg). Or your team is too dumb to play it correctly, instead they kemp left or right for 9 minutes and then react. In a team with TS, yes, it is possible, but not with those sh1tmonks with WN8<700. In addition, the defender has too many advantages, they just snip and relax.


 


 



Enforcer1975 #20 Posted 14 November 2017 - 05:59 PM

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View PostPlan_B_from_Outer_Space, on 14 November 2017 - 02:28 PM, said:

I have recently deactivated those assualt matches.

Either they are too boring (as defender ofc, especially on Erlenberg). Or your team is too dumb to play it correctly, instead they kemp left or right for 9 minutes and then react. In a team with TS, yes, it is possible, but not with those sh1tmonks with WN8<700. In addition, the defender has too many advantages, they just snip and relax.


 


 

 

You can still push into the enemy on Derpenberg, i was surprised that it even worked. Ofc you need some players who know what they are doing as company.

 






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