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New French Heavy Tanks

9.21 Public Test

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Ph3lan #1 Posted 13 November 2017 - 06:16 PM

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Hey all!

 

Please leave any feedback regarding the New French Heavy Tanks here.



MajorTom75 #2 Posted 17 November 2017 - 03:32 PM

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Disaster.... too easy to pen... autoloader line looks miles better compared to these cheeses!

Edited by MajorTom75, 17 November 2017 - 03:32 PM.


leggasiini #3 Posted 17 November 2017 - 03:44 PM

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Waiting for tanks.gg to update to give proper opinion about the tier 9/10. So far, it took a bit to get used to the tier 10. I thought it in general it was just crap, but after getting hang of it, it feels pretty nice. It could use a few minor buffs possibly, but then again, it will perform significantly better on live server so that might not be necessary. Anyway, giving a full opinion about the tier 9/10 later, first I focus on the tier 8.

 

AMX 65t

 

  • Hull armor is practically useless. Other than few troll bounces, its really weak compared to its intended role. A T20 was able to punch through my upper plate...with AP
  • Cupola is quite massive, and its rather weak too. The turret itself has alot of holes.
  • It feels stupidly slow; I struggle to reach higher than 30 km/h on flat ground.
  • 100 mm has unnecessarily bad gun handling for that kind of gun. AMX M4 49 Liberte is undestandable beacuse it has hull armor. This doesnt.
  • Ammorack can be damaged from very questionable locations:
Spoiler

 

Then there is the 120 mm gun, which is also quite mediocre-ish until you notice the utterly broken 325 mm penetration APCR round. Why would you even do this? Weren't the high alpha gun supposed to have poor penetration?

 

Not just that, but the 325 mm pen APCR is absurdly overpowered as ammo for tier 8. It is absolutely absurd because it can penetrate tier 10 super-heavies reliably from front, has very good velocity and 400 alpha. That bloody APCR on 120 mm makes otherwise pretty terrible tank to actually good, as you can play pretty much like a TD with lots of HP, a turret, way higher pen (lol) but worse DPM (I.E, far from the actually intended role). That is however if you fire APCR; the standard round has poor penetration, combined with poor DPM and gun handling.

 

There is a pretty interesting thing about the tank tho, so called "TVP-VTU dilemma" - the stock turret actually is way less bloated, better armored and has -10 depression, for less HP, less view range, not being able to use the 120 mm gun and bit worse gun stats. The stock 90 mm is actually quite decent as it has the best gun handling and DPM of the 3 guns. This basically gives the tank in theory a whopping 5 viable combinations, that is stock turret + 90, stock turret + 100, top turret + 90, top turret + 100 and top turret + 120. While this in theory is pretty cool, it will cause a crapton of confusion.

 

The tank needs a major rework. I propose this:

 

  • reduce APCR penetration on 120 mm gun from 325 mm to ~260 mm
  • decrease aiming time of the 100 mm gun from 3 seconds to 2.4 seconds
  • make the cupola hitbox bit smaller, or rework it so that parts of it has spaced armor like French TD rangefinders
  • buff terrain resists so the tank goes about as fast as the tier 9/10 (aka actually reaches the top speed)
  • buff DPM on 120 mm gun from 1739 to ~1850
  • fix the ammorack hitbox so it doesnt get damaged from next to the cupola (it was shot from front)

 

I would propose hull armor buffs but this way it still stays bit different from the tier 9/10, being bit more supportive than those and thus being logical progression from the M4 45 to M4 51. Weak hull armor is fine as long as at least the turret is workable, mobility is decent and firepower is solid. The 325 mm pen APCR has to be nerfed, because that is just utterly broken for a tier 8 HT.

 


Edited by leggasiini, 17 November 2017 - 03:48 PM.


Gekko2 #4 Posted 17 November 2017 - 04:38 PM

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The heavies are a joke. Penned for 1771 frontally by the rather OP FV in my 2nd game.

 

The first game every shot penned the tank apart from a poor badger who was the only person to not pen.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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MajorTom75 #5 Posted 17 November 2017 - 05:39 PM

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yes, its incredible... first two games with amx 65t I was literally penned by everyone, and many of them didn't use gold ammo at all. Not a single shell bounced!? With tier IX I managed to bounce off of turret, but hull was cheesed from every angle. Don't even think of sidescraping with that crap. 

Edited by MajorTom75, 17 November 2017 - 05:40 PM.


FelixJG #6 Posted 17 November 2017 - 05:41 PM

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AMX M4 mle. 54

Overall the tank has a lot of potential, there are just a few buffs I think the tank needs before it becomes competitive in today's meta

  • Gold pen on the 130mm should be buffed from 280mm to around 300mm
  • The gun mantlet needs to be thicker, right now gold shells go right through it and the mantlet is huge
  • Shoulder plates seem unnecessarily weak at 150mm, a buff to around 200mm would help the tank tremendously 
  • 120mm gun reload from 10.9 to 10 seconds
  • 130mm gun reload from 15.8 to 14.8 seconds

Edited by FelixJG, 17 November 2017 - 11:59 PM.


leggasiini #7 Posted 17 November 2017 - 06:21 PM

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AMX M4 51

 

  • buff AP pen on 127 mm gun from 242 to 246
  • buff premium AP pen on 127 mm gun from 258 to 280
  • buff alpha damage on both AP shells from 470 to 490 (why its lower than usual 490 alpha guns, especially when the tier 10 has way higher?)

 

127 mm gun is just useless with that current penetration values and there is no real reason to use it over the 120 mm gun, especially when you can skip it.

 

AMX M4 54

 

  • buff premium AP pen on the 130 mm gun from 280 to 290-295 (Type 4/5's 14 cm AP gun also needs a similar treatment).

 

Overall the tank feels pretty nice and I like it. The premium AP pen is however just too low on the 130 mm gun. While its workable, you really struggle against certain tanks like the Type 5 Heavy, when you actually have to fight against one.


Edited by leggasiini, 18 November 2017 - 06:52 PM.


Cpt_Kane #8 Posted 17 November 2017 - 08:51 PM

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Tier 9 and 10 FRENCH heavy need APCR or HEAT (HEAT preferably) ammo as premium rounds for the 2nd gun otherwise that gun is useless(280 pen to premium round?...you can`t pen anything in tier  9/10 battles and you pay a lot of credits for nothing)...a bit more attention to the tier 8 cupola ( its a very big weak spot and very visible) and to the tanks mobility...its very sluggish ( gets over matched by T34`s  speed...and that`s not what french heavys are known for....a real 40km/h would be great with a bit more engine power).

 


Edited by Cpt_Kane, 17 November 2017 - 11:56 PM.


papageo_cy #9 Posted 17 November 2017 - 10:45 PM

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The new line  xp-wise looks like this for anyone interested..

 

 

Also they all have the same crew as the AMX M4 45  ( Commander, Gunner, Driver, Radioman, Loader)


Edited by papageo_cy, 17 November 2017 - 10:55 PM.


suvicze #10 Posted 18 November 2017 - 03:25 AM

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Well to summarize it quickly... all three of them are piece of garbage and the autoloaders are way better.

To go into more details:

t8:

- bad mobility

- bad armor -> turret armor is nothing really special and even that is made useless by huge cupola weakspot, hull armor is crap

- 100mm gun -> decent dpm, enough penetration but bad soft stats and horrible aim time

- 120mm gun pretty much useless unless you are willing to spam apcr in which case it is not that bad because you can offset most of its problems by superior penetration

- overall, Liberte is better in pretty much everything and probably only loses a tiny bit when you take 120mm and spam apcr as in that case you can compensate for worse armor by sniping from distance.

t9: 

- cheeks are too weak so you cant angle your decent front to make it strong because then you get penetrated by pretty much everything you meet from the front by standard ammo...

- turret is finally durable enough 

- moving/tank traverse soft stats could use a buff

- 127mm gun is completely useless with that penetration, standard needs to be at least 248mm and premium at least 300mm or just give it the same as 120mm so 325mm apcr

- mobility could be better

t10:

- finally good enough hull armor that it offsets terrible hull cheeks so it is usable without angling, I would still buff the hull cheeks considerably though so you could angle your armor as it still has cupola and LFP weakspots

- turret is good enough I guess but could use buff in certain places to at least 310mm

- 130mm gun is useless, low dpm, low premium penetration, low shell velocity

- 120mm could use a dpm buff as well

- low hp, needs to be around 2500

- mobility not good enough considering it pretty much has armor only from the front

There is pretty much no point taking this over something like IS7 which is better at everything.

 

 



MajorTom75 #11 Posted 18 November 2017 - 09:46 AM

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Now that I had quite of few games in those, I will refrain of purchasing amx 65t once the patch goes live... At this point, I'm at 45k exp on tier 7 and since I have already purchased amx 50 100 with crew in it, I'm pretty much stuck with it.

 

Huge disappointment...



Uzzui #12 Posted 19 November 2017 - 12:30 AM

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Okay, this is my opinion on the new french heavys :

amx65t  (120mm gun, i wont even bother with 100mm gun and 3s aim time)

                         +  heavy hitter, good for trading, turret armor is good for lower tiers (weakspots too), very good accuracy, insane dirty apcr (pls nerf)

                         -  garbage hull armor,  but for equal tiers weakspots can easily be penned (thats a good thing for the balance, not for the tank itself), horrible soft stats (expected for such a big gun), bad dpm

                         conclusion : people take these big guns for granted, these days its nothing special for a tier 8 heavy to have 400 alpha (which usually comes with horrible soft stats), when some time ago it was a unique for t34, so, if the tank remains as it is, it should still have bad soft stats

                        proposed change : i feel like this tank doesnt fit the line if we look at the tier9 and 10, they are fast, have great soft stats and good armors (assuming tier9 and 10 are using 120 mm guns), while this tank is a slow alpha trader with bad armor, so maybe to fit the line better, it should lose the big 120mm gun, and become faster;  did i mention nerf gold ammo pen? 

amx m4 51     + : very comfortable tank, okay top speed, good acceleration for a heavy, good gun depression, good soft stats (dispersion and aim time), very good armor ( for peaking corners like liberte and hull down positions, not sidescraping)

                       -   : when angeled, shoulder plates become a weakspot (which means this tank cant sidescrape), 127mm gun  is a joke (srsly, 258 pen on gold ammo...)

                       conqlusion : i think its good, very comfortable as it is, with 120mm, but comparing the stats to the conqueror (since i dont own one), its inferior to it in every aspect but top speed and acceleration. If 127mm gun was functional it would be and interesting alternative to the conqueror

                       proposed change : give gold ammo at least 300 AP/APCR pen or 310 HEAT, or do a thing like with su100y and isu130, where the gold ammo has lower pen but way more dmg, like 560 or 600

amx m4 54      + same as 51

                         - shoulder armor hasnt improved over the tier 9 so its even a bigger weakspot, still cant sidescrape, 280 pen on the 130mm gun

                         - with 120mm this is basicly just a worse conqueror in every aspect 

                      conclusion : again, slightly faster than british counterpart which is not even close to compensate for the firepower advantage the S.conqueror has.

                       proposed change : this tank, just by looking at it, and playing it, like i said, its very good, but other tanks are just better - wz1-5 and S.conqueror have really set the bar high so, again, gold ammo pen increase to the standard (320 or 300mm of pen).

 

 

EDIT : its obvious that amx m4 45 at tier 7 needs a rework, because its really bad atm. Maybe upgrade the speed to match the tier 10 and 9 heavy, and change the gun depression angles : -10 on front and -1 on the sides is horrible, it should have tier 8 all around the front and sides to match the line better


Edited by Uzzui, 19 November 2017 - 01:06 AM.


Brucalizer #13 Posted 19 November 2017 - 11:50 AM

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I enjoyed playing the new tanks quite a lot, although a DPM buff to the 120mm gun on the tier X is definitely needed, it only has 50 DPM more than the tier 9... On top of that I feel the 127mm and 130mm could do with pen buffs to make them competitive. Armour wise the turrets can feel a little frustrating with premium rounds going straight through some parts of the mantlet and the hull cheeks are the same thickness as the liberté which can make the tank very awkward in some encounters, but if the intention is for this vehicle to be unable to side scrape I'm ok with that. The HP pool seems maybe slightly low for such a large and Heavy vehicle, 2400 seems more suitable imo.

 

One thing I would really like changed that hasn't been addressed at all this patch, is the grind up to these vehicles... The AMX M4 45 is awful... the only way I've been able to play it with any kind of pleasure is by gold noobing my way through with the 105mm (and yeah btw wtf is up with that gun's prem rounds???). The tank has awful armour, awful gun handling and isn't really that manoeuvrable. Before anyone says anything, yes this bit isn't about the new tanks but the grind to these vehicles is equally as important as the performance of the vehicles themselves!



Brodie_ #14 Posted 19 November 2017 - 04:32 PM

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Hi there WG.

 

I found the AMX 65t to be a real disappointment.

It is slow, fat, easy to pen & has a glacial reload speed.

After the awfulness of the tier 7, it will really put people off going further up the line.

 

I found the tier 9 & 10 heavies to be quite good in certain respects.

Really nice gun handling.

Quite nice armour when you can keep it toward the enemy. 

 

Very unforgiving if the enemy even get a whiff of your side armour though.

Plus they are massive vehicles! 

 

At the moment I do not think I will bother going up that branch of the tech tree though. 

They are just not as good as other tier X heavies that I have. 

Tier X is an expensive silver pit. 

I will take my Maus or Super Conquerer instead. 

 

If the tier 8 was not so utterly uninspiring, I may bother.

But the tier 9 & 10 are not special enough for me to grind through that tier 8 POS.

 

I imagine that you are planning to sort out the mess that tier 8 matchmaking is in at the moment.

Grinding that tier 8 turd,  with things as they currently are is definitely not something I will be doing!

 

Plus I am still annoyed about 9.18...

Plus I trained my free girl the other day as a French heavy commander in anticipation of them being worth it. 

What a waste! 

(I already have 3 French female commanders, so she is superfluous now...) 

 

Oh yes! Nearly forgot. What the hell is the point of the 130mm on the tier X with that awful pen??? 

 


Edited by Brodie_, 19 November 2017 - 04:41 PM.


loiiba #15 Posted 20 November 2017 - 12:57 PM

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The AMX M4 54 IT IS A PIECE OF CRAP! If some one just looks at you, you will get pen. Every thing about this tank is wrong.

1 The tank is tall as a bloc and has 390 view range, for god sake IS-7 has 400 view range and it is a low profile tank and has some cammo values.

2 The frontal armor is useless when some body press the magic 2 your all frontal armor is 90% pen any were with auto aim. Uper plate pen, Gun mantle pen, Lower plate pen and the list go on.... PEN PEN PEN

3 How come the gun mantle is 300mm spaced armor but has no armor behind IT. How dose that count for spaced? If you move the tank around in tanks.gg you can see there are 40mm of armor behind the mantle but from the front they disappear the Houdini tank. And there is still more, right and left above the gun on the gun mantle you have too gigantic week spots 259.1 armor you don't even need gold to go true that and they are not so hard to hit. I have never seen a tank in this game that has week spots on the gun mantle.

4 The gun Handheling are ok, aiming time god, soft stats god, normal pen excellent, dpm crap but taking in consideration the gun handeling and pen rather god but stil bad.

5 Cammo non existing

6 View range 390 for a tank that big in my opinion 410 wood do it.

7 Side armor I hing it is put there just to protect the guy in side from the elements, not that the tracks cover something like on E5 and is prefect flatted.

8 With that kind of armor on the sides if arty splashes you from 5m away on the sides or on the bag you will get like 400 dmg no problem.

The list can go on but is to long. How come WG gaming can make a heavy tank so week and a TD the Badger so OP in therms o armor I think should be the other way around. But this is WG and in the last 2 ears they did only this kind of crap. 

 I HOPE THAT THEY WILL MASSIVE BUFF THE ARMOR OF THIS TANK IN ALL SIDES (gun mantle some armor behind the ''spaced'' mantle..., lower plate, upper plate sides and.....) BUT AS WARE GAMING DON'T GIVE A crapABOUT PLAYERS OPINION I can return on playing Ware Tunder


Edited by loiiba, 22 November 2017 - 01:25 AM.


Biostud #16 Posted 21 November 2017 - 06:26 AM

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Without having played the tanks it seems like there's one question that needs to be addressed. Why would I play this tier X tank instead of the Super Conquerer or E5?

 

 



Koz23 #17 Posted 21 November 2017 - 09:29 AM

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My first impressions of these vehicles are as follows.

 

Tier 8: ...terrible. Armor is pretty bad, and it feels too slow.

 

Tier 9: 127mm gun wasn't all that impressive for me because of the alpha. Maybe boosting up the damage to, say 490 (and tweak the reload), might make it a little bit more interesting. Also, how come the british 123mm gets 480 damage and this 127mm gets 460? I get it that damage sometimes is scaled down a bit for the sake of balance, but there are guns that do 490 at tier 9 (E 75, WZ 11111111111111111111111111-4), so it wouldn't really break the game or anything anyway.

 

Tier 10: I overall liked it, but the premium rounds on the 130mm gun don't feel sufficient enough.

And since we're at this subject, you guys need to look at the premium rounds for the "big" guns on each vehicl because they're either too good (325mm at tier 8) or very disappointing (like the tier 9 having a difference of 16mm or something like that between regular and prem, and tier 10 not having enough pen to deal with these god awful super heavies that got buffed lately).

 

And as a last note, the armor sometimes gets penned by premium rounds frontally and it feels a bit disappointing considering the frontal durability is one of the main features of these vehicles.



asari79 #18 Posted 21 November 2017 - 02:17 PM

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I have played all of the tanks and I don´t like any of them. They have ok front armour but it´s the only thing it have for it and it´s alot of heavy tanks with better armour from other nations.

The speed is ok for a heavy tank but there are alot of heavy tanks with simular speed and good armour. Some of the guns are ok if you don´t count dmp beacuse the dmp is so bad.

 

Since they have low HP they need to get alot better dpm for anyone to play with them. And some of there guns need alot better pen on there prem ammo.

 

 



stratejist #19 Posted 23 November 2017 - 10:29 AM

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130 mm gun pen must be improved.

Bennie182 #20 Posted 26 November 2017 - 12:18 PM

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View Postasari79, on 21 November 2017 - 02:17 PM, said:

I have played all of the tanks and I don´t like any of them. They have ok front armour but it´s the only thing it have for it and it´s alot of heavy tanks with better armour from other nations.The speed is ok for a heavy tank but there are alot of heavy tanks with simular speed and good armour. Some of the guns are ok if you don´t count dmp beacuse the dmp is so bad.

 

Since they have low HP they need to get alot better dpm for anyone to play with them. And some of there guns need alot better pen on there prem ammo.

"some guns" etc makes no sense, at least explain what you think should be improved, like other people do.


Edited by Bennie182, 26 November 2017 - 12:18 PM.






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