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Operation gambit, and how new mechanics affect rewards

Operation Gambit Gambit Reward bonds reward tank sixth campaign campaign

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SirGruut #1 Posted 16 November 2017 - 05:04 PM

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Since the campaign has been going now for a while I UPDATED my estimations in the following text and on page 6. The main points are highlighted

 

I made this post and since the campaign has been going for a while now i should be able to estimate the received amount of bonds better. Important conclusions are once again highlited and the previous estimation is hidden in the spoiler

 

- everything from rank 5k-11k will receive 500 bonds

 

- Before the conversion half of my clan was top 2k with 700 bonds the other half was around 5k with 500 bonds. The clan boost was x4. From this I estimate that some people in the top 5k will have that x4 boost but most wont (the fame difference between members was pretty high on sunday). This is basically a "best case"

 

- People that tried ranked when it first came out and played some randoms or played ranked a lot but bought equipment should probably have around 1k-2k bonds left. This is a very rough estimate based on 2 parts:

 

* players that only tried ranked in the first week probably got at least to rank 3 earning 300 bonds, about 300 were given at the start (i think) and 400 is possible to earn for someone that doenst play a lot of t10

 

* People that play more ranked probably got up to 2k but not higher, since 3-4k only possible to earn by playing a lot of ranked without actually getting to the big prizes. This case is impossible since in the second month of ranked the player participation was low, and most people that made it to rank 4 got great rewards. This allowed them to either use 5k bonds for the equipment or grind out the little they have left in t10's and once again buy equipment. This is a very rough but plausible estimation

 

* Some people will have enough bonds form the start, but a big portion remains that wont.

 

- My previous estimation shows that someone that is ranked around 5k and part of a great clan (top 70) will make 2000 bonds (this will be WAY worse for most people since clan multipliers drop rather fast if you keep the amount of people getting them in mind.

 

- This would result in players having to grind 0-2k bonds in 3 weeks, lets go with 1k bonds to grind since personal bonds and campaign bonds will average eachother out.

 

- I played the T100 the entire saturday, i randomly selected 15 battles (which is a significant fraction of the 31 battles i played in the t100) 2 of these were grand battles. During that day (31 battles in the t100 and 4 in the super conq) i earned approximatly 125 bonds. from these T10 battles. This means that on average I earned 3.6 bonds/battle (on a day where i played 3.2k wn8 and had 65% win rate). Lets assume i earned 4/battle because that will make the numbers easier this is 10% higher tho! To maximize the number of T10 dumps (which give guaranteed bonds) i unchecked encounter and assault, 12 battle were played in platoon to once again increase the odds of dumps.

 

-  With an average of 4 bonds per battle it would take 250 battles to get 1000 bonds. This would take (with an average of 7 minutes/battles ) 1750 minutes which is 29.2 hours. While the campaign itself only takes around 135 battles! (20 battles in the last 4 days to get to position 7k in a 27 day campaign)

 

- There are 3 weeks left after the campaign to ge the necesairy amount of bonds, this would mean that one has to play (even on christmas and new year) and average of 1 hour and a half of T10 every single day. If one would need 2k bounds this would increase to 3 hours.

 

This is a very large additional time investment, its not impossible tho.

 

An additional issue is that playing T10 costs a lot of credits, clan wars does as well but the rewards are worth it (i lose about 300k on a full night without premium but with a credit boost active). I dont mind tho since i knew this would happen well in advance.

With the changes from this year there players will need to play and additional T10 battle which cost a lot of credits. According to VB addict a net loss of 15-25k credits/game. This means that next to the credits lost in clan wars one will have to earn another 5M credits just to play these T10 games. The only way to earn this is to either play T8 skirmishes with a T10 credit boost in a T8 premium for about 100 games or buy a premium account and lose less while playing t10 combined with earning more during skirmishes.

 

This means that the player will either have to play another 8 hours of non stop, fast T8 skirmishes (5 minutes/battle) or buy 10 days of premium time (play more T10 on the days you have one).

This means that the player has to either buy a T8 premium and play it for 8 hours or pay 5 euros for the premium time.

 

Earning a reward tank is therefor not just a case of "how well did you play" but more a case of "did you play our ranked game mode" or "do you want to spend money and lots of time grinding additional currency". 

 

I can say this because the amount of participants currently stands at 20k, this means that over 50% of the participants has a chance of getting the tank, way higher then any previous campaign! The chance to get a tank therefor doenst depend on the number of tanks handed out but the number of bonds one currenlty owns and the time one wants to spend grinding them. Its only slightly dependant on the amount one earns during the campaign since this is less then half for most people.

 

How to fix this:

 

- Give people more time to grind bonds, the christmas period is very busy and should be focussed around family and playing tank ithe free time. Not being forced to play T10 to get that reward tank you earned a month ago.

 

- Give a flat bond bonus to the top 11k or reduce the cost of the tank. The second option increases the influx of bonds towards the high end players which is probably unwanted by WG. A good cost for the tank would probably be around 2k bonds, this will still mean players have to grind additional bonds, but the fraction grinding will be lower and they will have to spend less time and credits grinding them.

 

- Give the tank for free, reduce the amount of bonds earned drastically.

 

- Since competitiveness was one of the issues: reduce the amount of tanks given out (8k is usual for a small campaign, the 11k for the big campaign was possibly due to the longer period, more participants and the time of year.

 

- Give away bonds during the holidays, this will once again cut in the amount of grinding and not only the CW players will get gifts but remind everyone about this fancy new currency and what to do with it.

 

I have spent a lot of time doing my research and analysing the results, I would highly appreciate some feedback from the community and maybe a reaction from the WG staff. I do know as well that some changes might be hard to implement recenlty but this is clearly is a big issue currenlty as this topic has almost 5000 views!

 

Disclaimers about the results: These are rought estimations since obtaining exact results is difficult/impossible. The bonds are estimated since they dont show up when uploading the replay on WOTreplays. This game lives on people that buy premium time/tanks and I fully agree with creating insentives to do so. I do feel tho that after playing CW for a month there should be no additional credit issues to get the rewards.

 

Spoiler

 


Edited by SirGruut, 28 November 2017 - 11:49 PM.


__H3H3__ #2 Posted 16 November 2017 - 05:15 PM

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Damn this is facked up. Especially for weaker clans..

FireflyDivision #3 Posted 16 November 2017 - 05:21 PM

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Well, you have to admit that any active player was able to win a tank in previous events. Now you actually have to be good :P

 



__H3H3__ #4 Posted 16 November 2017 - 05:28 PM

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View PostFireflyDivision, on 16 November 2017 - 05:21 PM, said:

Well, you have to admit that any active player was able to win a tank in previous events. Now you actually have to be good :P

 

 

Edited.

Edited by Asklepi0s, 28 November 2017 - 12:02 PM.
This post has been edited by the moderation team due to inappropriate remarks


Wizzmann #5 Posted 16 November 2017 - 05:31 PM

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View PostFireflyDivision, on 16 November 2017 - 06:21 PM, said:

Now you actually have to be in a good clan.

 

Fixed that for you. With those multipliers it matter much less how good you or even your team are, it matters more how good is your entire clan.

Cobra6 #6 Posted 16 November 2017 - 05:54 PM

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Well, I don't have many additional bonds, probably around 300 as I never play ranked and only get them from randoms.

 

I sincerely hope that Wargaming does not screw me over with these shenanigans or it will be the last campaign I participate in.

 

If I'm in the top 11000 players in terms of FapPoints/Clan performance I expect to get a tank.

 

Cobra 6



Dakteris #7 Posted 16 November 2017 - 06:00 PM

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Actually based on the previous campaign (Steel Corrida), the numbers would be 60 000 players and 1900 clans that would get in to this years Alley of Fame.

 

Block Quote

 

10. Awards

 

The calculation of awarding ranges for clans and players will be performed only among the players and clans that made it into the Alley of Fame. To make it into the Alley of Fame, both players and clans should fight at least 5 battles in the region and earn at least 100 Fame Points.

 

 



FireflyDivision #8 Posted 16 November 2017 - 06:16 PM

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View PostCobra6, on 16 November 2017 - 05:54 PM, said:

Well, I don't have many additional bonds, probably around 300 as I never play ranked and only get them from randoms.

 

I sincerely hope that Wargaming does not screw me over with these shenanigans or it will be the last campaign I participate in.

 

If I'm in the top 11000 players in terms of FapPoints/Clan performance I expect to get a tank.

 

Cobra 6

 

This sounds like a form of zesjescultuur :P

 

Anyway... I wish they keep these stupid bonds out of this. Just give tank to ppl/clans directly depending on rank.



SSGVastabat #9 Posted 16 November 2017 - 07:33 PM

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So basically, WG are on a mission to basically destroy their own game by doing moronic things like this, seriously how does WG expect anyone to even bother with this campaign, unless you play strictly tier 10, ranked battle seasons or get medals a lot, and not to mention have a minimum of 3,750 bonds saved up by the time the campaign ends, you have zero chance to buy a tank.

 

Like another_ghost_shell said, I already got the 907, but still, this is a massive slap in the face to the whole EU community regardless of whether you are a skilled player or bad player, this campaign just isn't worth it at all. 



MrTurner #10 Posted 16 November 2017 - 09:57 PM

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hmm if its going to be under 10k reward tanks the least, I'm not even bothering December

 

T



FireflyDivision #11 Posted 16 November 2017 - 10:11 PM

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I think it's a mistake to remove gold income from the provinces. That is the thing which makes clans that think they have no chance not play. 

Edited by FireflyDivision, 16 November 2017 - 10:11 PM.


handful_of_luck #12 Posted 17 November 2017 - 07:44 AM

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To own 4k Bonds isn't that hard. Just got them by playing random and some about 500 by actually playing Ranked Battles. You get around 100 Points per evening minimum if you play 2 hours t10. And since WG is throwing out these Creditboosters everybody can play t10 without a great loss of credits and if you own a prem acc and your clan is activating boosters as well you do even profit. So in my opinion it's still pretty easy to get the tank but there won't be something like paying to join a clan to get the reward, because you have to play actually not only 10 battles and then get the tank for being in a clan.

Y_O_L_0 #13 Posted 17 November 2017 - 01:02 PM

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View Posthandful_of_luck, on 17 November 2017 - 06:44 AM, said:

 there won't be something like paying to join a clan to get the reward, because you have to play actually not only 10 battles and then get the tank for being in a clan.

 

I don't remember where I read it, but there was something like WarGaming wanted to prevent this thing (people buying their spot in good clans to get the reward tanks without effort). Personally I don't care what other people sell or buy.

 

But buying reward tanks with bonds that you earn in Ranked Battles? At least they could announce this rule like at the beginning of the year, before the Ranked Seasons started, so we could have known that we will receive CW reward tanks from playing Ranked Battles.



SSGVastabat #14 Posted 17 November 2017 - 01:40 PM

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View Posthandful_of_luck, on 17 November 2017 - 06:44 AM, said:

To own 4k Bonds isn't that hard. Just got them by playing random and some about 500 by actually playing Ranked Battles. You get around 100 Points per evening minimum if you play 2 hours t10. And since WG is throwing out these Creditboosters everybody can play t10 without a great loss of credits and if you own a prem acc and your clan is activating boosters as well you do even profit. So in my opinion it's still pretty easy to get the tank but there won't be something like paying to join a clan to get the reward, because you have to play actually not only 10 battles and then get the tank for being in a clan.

 

So WG thought that hey everyone would have done this ranked battle stuff we chucked out a few months ago, so we are going to be sneaky and make previous CW reward tanks available for 4k bonds and not tell anyone until the ranked battle seasons have ended. Smart idea comrade, because everyone played ranked battles.....

Firstly, if my sarcasm wasn't a big hint, not everyone bothered with ranked battles, secondly not everyone wants to just sit and play T10 all the time or even play this game all the time and thirdly bonds and cw campaign had nothing in common so expecting people to have 4k bonds or close to it to go buy a cw reward tank is highly shortsighted of anyone.
The fact is, they literally only made the official announcement a day ago about how many bonds are needed to get a cw tank, how many bonds players would get from being top 11k at the end of the campaign, so unless you was already grinding out bonds for those improved equipment items you can gte, than barely anyone will have close to 4k bonds to get a reward tank.

 

They are called REWARD tanks for a reason, as in they should be rewarded to the players who put the time and effort into earning them, they shouldn't haven't to be paid for at all with bonds or any other currency but now WG are trying to mix random battles into cw/campaigns like they did with influence from strongholds.


Edited by SSGVastabat, 17 November 2017 - 01:44 PM.


ralesm1989 #15 Posted 17 November 2017 - 02:00 PM

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This campaign should have name - ''Operation Gamble''. Seriously, wtf is this??? So, spam campaign, spam randoms to earn bonds, perform really good at same time,  i mean, they failed it very hard once again. 

 

So, GIVE ALOT OF YOUR TIME, and finish in 11,000, but hey, maybe you dont win the tank even in that kind of situation. And also, no new reward tank. ''Reward'' tank, hell yeah, you have to buy it if you can.

 

Completely agree with SSGVastabat. What i was telling alot in previous time, WG will kill this game themselfs with those kind of really STUPID decisions.


Edited by ralesm1989, 17 November 2017 - 02:05 PM.


ralesm1989 #16 Posted 17 November 2017 - 02:37 PM

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View Posthandful_of_luck, on 17 November 2017 - 07:44 AM, said:

To own 4k Bonds isn't that hard. Just got them by playing random and some about 500 by actually playing Ranked Battles. You get around 100 Points per evening minimum if you play 2 hours t10. 

 

So, if i, for example, have  0 bonds now, which is perfectly possible, i need to spam campaign for 3 hours, and to perform it really good. Then i need to play it 3 weeks that good and often, and yet, i have to spam randoms in tier X for 2 hours so i can earn bonds needed. They made it so stupid this time, but, we got used to that.

 

EDIT: Sorry for not multiquoting posts...


Edited by ralesm1989, 17 November 2017 - 03:29 PM.


UnfaireSpielweise #17 Posted 17 November 2017 - 02:44 PM

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View Postralesm1989, on 17 November 2017 - 02:37 PM, said:

 

So, if i, for example, have  0 bonds now, which is perfectly possible, i need to spam campaign for 3 hours, and to perform it really good. Then i need to play it 3 weeks that good and often, and yet, i have to spam randoms in tier X for 2 hours so i can earn bonds needed. They made it so stupid this time, but, we got used to that.

 

I would not fall off my chair if bonds would be buyable in the shop soon.

ralesm1989 #18 Posted 17 November 2017 - 03:48 PM

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View PostUnfaireSpielweise, on 17 November 2017 - 02:44 PM, said:

 

I would not fall off my chair if bonds would be buyable in the shop soon.

 

Yeah, i said that already two weeks ago, but one of moderators explicitly said that bonds will not be sold for money.

lmperfection #19 Posted 17 November 2017 - 05:22 PM

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View Postralesm1989, on 17 November 2017 - 02:48 PM, said:

 

Yeah, i said that already two weeks ago, but one of moderators explicitly said that bonds will not be sold for money.

 

The E25 wont be sold again, the M6 mutant would only be fore pre-order package, we care about our players.

As you can see WG have lied a lot, I doubt Conway or Phelans posts on the forums will effect the companies need for more yachts, hookers and coke.



kebote #20 Posted 18 November 2017 - 11:42 PM

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View PostSirGruut, on 16 November 2017 - 05:04 PM, said:

As most of you might now the rules and regulations for the sixth campaign: operation Gambit have been released. There are some major changes to how fame points are earned and can be used. The biggest issue i have tho is that currenty the amount of players that will receive enough bonds to get a tank, only 2000!! This means that 8000 to 9000 players will have to use (a lot) of additional bonds to get a tank.

In the following section i will explain how i come to this result:

 

To start out i would like to mention that this top 2000 is based on the results of last year, where around 83000 people from 2100 clans participated. (google fifth campaign and you should find a link to the hall of fame in one of the posts)

 

Now for the calculations:

83000 participants means that rewards will decrease with steps of 830. 

 

Rank Bonds
1 - 830 1000
831 - 1660 950
1661 - 2490 900
2491 - 3320 850
3321 - 4150 800

 

Clan position will have an influence on your received bonds as well, since there were 2100 clans, this goes in steps of 21.

 

Clan rank Bonds multiplier
1-21 x 7
22-42 x 6.5
43-63 x 6
64-85 x 5.5
86-106 x 5

 

This means that if you would end around position 2000 and you would not make top 106 ( x 4 multiplier), which was common last year, you would receive 3600 bonds. Getting a tank would therefor cost you an additional 400 bonds.

Important to note is that clan position is a lot more important that personal fame since these multipliers are pretty big.

 

The issue is have with this is that after playing every evening for an entire month, only 2-3k players will be able to get a tank without additional costs. The remaining 9-8k players will have to use additional bonds they earned in ranked battles, if they have some left or participated in the first place. It gets even worse if you take into account that less people and clans might participate because no new tank got added and the bond reward will be pretty small for most players. Less participants will make it even harder for those who remain to get enough bonds for a tank!

 

I feel like this needs addressing since cutting the amount of tanks given out by 80% is a mayor issue!

 

link to rules and regulations: https://worldoftanks...bit-rules-regs/

link to hall of fame from last campaign: https://worldoftanks...e=0&aof_size=25

 

I think the tables are not correct, 10% of 83000 is 8300, wich get 800 bonds, the decreasing is not in steps of 830, firsts 5%-10% get the 800 bonds. Same as clans, with the numbers of past event, the cut is top 8300 individual-top 210 clan for the 800x5 bonds.

Edited by kebote, 18 November 2017 - 11:46 PM.





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