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BigWorld Engine, or how WoT works?

game engine havok

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nokis231 #1 Posted 18 November 2017 - 01:12 AM

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Many of us are unhappy because of the game source performance. But, let's see how it actually works, what are the components that are used, and others. Write down if this helped you understand something about how WoT works.

 

IMPORTANT NOTE : YOU CAN CORRECT ME, LIKE OTHERS DID WITH THE HAVOK PART. BUT FROM NOW ON, HARD HATE POSTS WILL BE REPORTED!

 

I. A game is made up of two big parts:

      1.Game engine

      2.Implementations of the Game engine

 

1.The game engine is the main part of any game, in which game assets created in external programs are used, and combined using the game logic. Game assets can be represented by static or dynamic objects, particles(= effects), sound sources, etc. As we are talking about BW engine, it includes some "on-place" editors, and World Editor. For the processing of the game logic and mechanics, it uses Python. BW Engine also features a strong server side feature, which I'll explain into another topic.

 

*NOTE: I can't tell you details about BW Engine, because I'm not allowed by WG. However, if you really want to find out something more, request my email.

 

2.Implementations of the GE are like addons. The main, mandatory implementations are : Graphics Engine, Physics Engine, Audio Engine and GUI Engine.

 

a.Graphics Engine: Is the one that processes the graphical elements of the game. This means it processes the objects on a map, map itself, lighting etc. They are processed using some implementations of the Graphics Engine, NOT GAME ENGINE. Examples are tessellation, global illumination, etc.

 

b.The physics engine is responsible for the buildings and fences destruction effect. How it works : Once the object is loaded into it's allocated memory, the physics engine splits it into fragments(number of fragments it's set through game scripts). You may not know that, but the physics engine in WOT also processes the physics and movement of the tank.

 

c.Audio engine is the one that plays a triggered sound from a group of sounds. In this case, we talk about Audio Kinetic Wwise, one of the best AE's at the moment. Sounds are grouped into groups, which are later grouped into banks( with extension *.bnk, in this case). When you press W, to move your tank, the soundbank is called, then the soundbank triggers a random sound, which should match to the called event.

 

d.GUI Engine is the one that processes the GUI(Graphical User Interface). WoT currently uses Autodesk Scaleform, which develops GUI in flash. The GUI elements are stored like movies, in files with extension *.swf (Shockwave Flash movie). Now, WG is not stupid to write the same script 2 times, so , they use to import gui scripts into other movie scripts. Example: The battle loading with minimap import scripts from the minimap.swf file, which is responsible for in-battle minimap.

 

I'll talk more about the Graphics Engine in a separate topic, and I will put a link into this topic for it.

 

NOTE: Thanks to the community, I found that Havok is no longer the physics engine that WOT uses. Anyone makes mistakes, but we are a community!

 

If you have any questions, please leave them down below.

 

LINK TO THE GRAPHICS ENGINE TOPIC: http://forum.worldof.../#entry15035869


Edited by nokis231, 18 November 2017 - 09:16 PM.


Erwin_Von_Braun #2 Posted 18 November 2017 - 01:18 AM

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Ok, cheers for the intel.

I have no idea what most of it means, but thanks anyways:)



Balc0ra #3 Posted 18 November 2017 - 01:28 AM

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You do know that the new HD maps is not using Big world right? As WG did notice that in 2014 they had more or less reached the peak of what they could do with the old engine, about the time when the first Havok test videos appeared. But the new HD maps is not using Havok either on the game engine, but the destruction engine on houses, walls etc So then we will get it. They said what the new engine for the graphics was called in one of the HD maps videos, but can't recall what it was called atm.

 

Edit: found it. The new graphic engine is called Core "not the old Java one" as stated in the dev diaries. That is basically an in house engine as far as I understood it. Not unlikely considering all the small assets and game studios they have bought over the years, and all the game engines tech that follows with it.  This uses several different separate engines for trees, grass, destruction etc. Like Havok, outland and Speedtree 6. So it's not the main engine doing all the work like now.


Edited by Balc0ra, 18 November 2017 - 02:27 AM.


RamRaid90 #4 Posted 18 November 2017 - 01:35 AM

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90% of what you wrote is ill-informed.

 

Havoc has never been used in World of Tanks for a start, it was tested and decided that without the game being updated there was no significant benefit. In fact most players would not have been able to run the game at all, and those that could run it would not benefit from it.

 

 

 

 



Balc0ra #5 Posted 18 November 2017 - 01:55 AM

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View PostRamRaid90, on 18 November 2017 - 01:35 AM, said:

90% of what you wrote is ill-informed.

 

Havoc has never been used in World of Tanks for a start, it was tested and decided that without the game being updated there was no significant benefit. In fact most players would not have been able to run the game at all, and those that could run it would not benefit from it.

 

He said it was in the EULA... half the stuff TM there has never been in the game. Just tested upon, never used on live.

RamRaid90 #6 Posted 18 November 2017 - 03:01 AM

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View PostBalc0ra, on 18 November 2017 - 12:55 AM, said:

 

He said it was in the EULA... half the stuff TM there has never been in the game. Just tested upon, never used on live.

 

Exactly, he's read the EULA. Therefore, ill-informed.

Strappster #7 Posted 18 November 2017 - 03:16 AM

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This thread isn't as much fun as the ones where someone's read The Patent.

nokis231 #8 Posted 18 November 2017 - 10:19 AM

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View PostErwin_Von_Braun, on 18 November 2017 - 12:18 AM, said:

Ok, cheers for the intel.

I have no idea what most of it means, but thanks anyways:)

Feel free to ask anything :)

View PostBalc0ra, on 18 November 2017 - 12:28 AM, said:

You do know that the new HD maps is not using Big world right? As WG did notice that in 2014 they had more or less reached the peak of what they could do with the old engine, about the time when the first Havok test videos appeared. But the new HD maps is not using Havok either on the game engine, but the destruction engine on houses, walls etc So then we will get it. They said what the new engine for the graphics was called in one of the HD maps videos, but can't recall what it was called atm.

 

Edit: found it. The new graphic engine is called Core "not the old Java one" as stated in the dev diaries. That is basically an in house engine as far as I understood it. Not unlikely considering all the small assets and game studios they have bought over the years, and all the game engines tech that follows with it.  This uses several different separate engines for trees, grass, destruction etc. Like Havok, outland and Speedtree 6. So it's not the main engine doing all the work like now.

I know what happened with HD maps, but the BW Engine remains. It has just been highly modified. 

View PostRamRaid90, on 18 November 2017 - 12:35 AM, said:

90% of what you wrote is ill-informed.

 

Havoc has never been used in World of Tanks for a start, it was tested and decided that without the game being updated there was no significant benefit. In fact most players would not have been able to run the game at all, and those that could run it would not benefit from it.

 

 

 

 

The oldest version of Havok WoT had, was introduced back in 0.8.0 .

View PostBalc0ra, on 18 November 2017 - 12:55 AM, said:

 

He said it was in the EULA... half the stuff TM there has never been in the game. Just tested upon, never used on live.

I also searched through game files & scripts and Havok was there.

View PostRamRaid90, on 18 November 2017 - 02:01 AM, said:

 

Exactly, he's read the EULA. Therefore, ill-informed.

Well, I really known that WoT never had Havok, but, by mistake, I opened the EULA  window and I have seen there. After, I searched through game files and found it.

View PostStrappster, on 18 November 2017 - 02:16 AM, said:

This thread isn't as much fun as the ones where someone's read The Patent.

 

 

Now, I know that some others did this kind of "stories" about WoT mechanical part, but I really felt that I have to clarify things.

 

Feel free to ask anything.



RamRaid90 #9 Posted 18 November 2017 - 10:28 AM

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View Postnokis231, on 18 November 2017 - 09:19 AM, said:

Feel free to ask anything :)

I know what happened with HD maps, but the BW Engine remains. It has just been highly modified. 

The oldest version of Havok WoT had, was introduced back in 0.8.0 .

I also searched through game files & scripts and Havok was there.

Well, I really known that WoT never had Havok, but, by mistake, I opened the EULA  window and I have seen there. After, I searched through game files and found it.

 

 

Now, I know that some others did this kind of "stories" about WoT mechanical part, but I really felt that I have to clarify things.

 

Feel free to ask anything.

 

Residual files possibly left over from testing, we know how good WG are at keeping things clean and tidy.

 

The Havoc physics engine was never used.



Homer_J #10 Posted 18 November 2017 - 10:31 AM

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View Postnokis231, on 18 November 2017 - 12:12 AM, said:

 

The physics engine, is, currently, Havok. 

Wot Devs were quite clear that they had produced their own physics engine.

 

Havok was to be used for building destruction and moving parts on tanks but was never implemented.

 

HD maps are using what WG describes as a completely new engine.  It may be based on BugWorld but it certainly does not perform like it, it's far better.



nokis231 #11 Posted 18 November 2017 - 10:47 AM

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View PostHomer_J, on 18 November 2017 - 09:31 AM, said:

Wot Devs were quite clear that they had produced their own physics engine.

 

Havok was to be used for building destruction and moving parts on tanks but was never implemented.

 

HD maps are using what WG describes as a completely new engine.  It may be based on BugWorld but it certainly does not perform like it, it's far better.

 

View PostRamRaid90, on 18 November 2017 - 09:28 AM, said:

 

Residual files possibly left over from testing, we know how good WG are at keeping things clean and tidy.

 

The Havoc physics engine was never used.

 

​Ok. Yes, it's BigWorld Engine, but really modified. I have BW Engine, complete, and I tried to make a game. I TRIED. It's so hard that I gave up. Hard to use, for nothing. Switched to UE.

 

And, fun fact about how WG keeps things clean and tidy. Just look at the screenshot.

See? Our good old tanks are no longer in the tech tree, but are in the game files.

 

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Phobos4321 #12 Posted 18 November 2017 - 10:51 AM

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View Postnokis231, on 18 November 2017 - 01:12 AM, said:

Many of us are unhappy because of the game source performance. But, let's see how it actually works, what are the components that are used, and others. Write down if this helped you understand something about how WoT works.

 

I. A game is made up of two big parts:

      1.Game engine

      2.Implementations of the Game engine

 

1.The game engine is the core feature of the game. As we are talking about BW engine, it includes some "on-place" editors, and World Editor. For the processing of the game logic and mechanics, it uses Python. BW Engine also features a strong server side feature, which I'll explain into another topic.

 

2.Implementations of the GE are like addons. The main, mandatory implementations are : Graphics Engine, Physics Engine. Also, the Graphics Engine can feature implementations like Tesselation, Global Illumination etc. 

 

The physics engine, is, currently, Havok. Yes, you read right. It's an older version of Havok. Read the first paragraphs in the in-game EULA.

 

Moreover, they can't switch the game engine. They bought it for 45.000.000$ . It's like you are buying an expensive house, but the comunity around you won't like it.

 

If you have any questions, please leave them down below. I'll update this topic as soon as possible.

 

quite some strange stuff here

 

afaik  havok was tested but had serious , really serious performance issues so it was dropped and wg build their own physics engine  

 

why shouldnt they be able to switch the engines ? wowp and wows  run on bw2  for example and as you could guessed  after buying bw1 they own bw2 too

with that they would gain  multicore support or something like lifting the  ~ 1,2gb ram limit they had with bw1

 

never forget bw1 is an engine about 12 years old, older than unreal engine 3

 

 

had some matches on the last sandbox server  and i can say whatever they did whtever engine they uses for it, it did work looking frar  nicer with at least the same if not even better performance 

 

the maps might being a distraction or you will get used to the new engine pretty fast but that are differnt issues  



Homer_J #13 Posted 18 November 2017 - 10:52 AM

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View Postnokis231, on 18 November 2017 - 09:47 AM, said:

 

 

​ Our good old tanks are no longer in the tech tree, but are in the game files.

 

WTF E100 is available on the Chinese server.

 

Jeeze man, it's more like you need to ask us questions than you answer any.

 

Fun fact, T-50-2 was used as the ball in the football mode.


Edited by Homer_J, 18 November 2017 - 10:53 AM.


nokis231 #14 Posted 18 November 2017 - 11:10 AM

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View PostHomer_J, on 18 November 2017 - 09:52 AM, said:

WTF E100 is available on the Chinese server.

 

Jeeze man, it's more like you need to ask us questions than you answer any.

 

Fun fact, T-50-2 was used as the ball in the football mode.

 

​I took the screenshot on my EU server, and, I know what Chinese server has, but the WTF E100 in the game files has the old textures.

RamRaid90 #15 Posted 18 November 2017 - 11:16 AM

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View Postnokis231, on 18 November 2017 - 10:10 AM, said:

 

​I took the screenshot on my EU server, and, I know what Chinese server has, but the WTF E100 in the game files has the old textures.

 

Because it was removed from the server, not from the game files. If they removed it completely from the game files knowing WoT devs then they would possibly wipe out progress to the grille 15 for those who would have had it unlocked.

 

Seriously, it's beginning to sound like you have no clue at all what you're talking about. This is all basic stuff.


Edited by RamRaid90, 18 November 2017 - 11:16 AM.


mathwat #16 Posted 18 November 2017 - 11:21 AM

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Plus the old replays wouldn’t work either if you removed old tank files.

Edited by mathwat, 18 November 2017 - 11:26 AM.


AliceUnchained #17 Posted 18 November 2017 - 11:24 AM

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No offense, but I basically stopped reading when you called the game engine the 'core feature of the game'. Perhaps it's just wonky translation from your native language, but that's just utter rubbish.

 

View Postnokis231, on 18 November 2017 - 10:19 AM, said:

The oldest version of Havok WoT had, was introduced back in 0.8.0 .

I also searched through game files & scripts and Havok was there.

Well, I really known that WoT never had Havok, but, by mistake, I opened the EULA  window and I have seen there. After, I searched through game files and found it.

 

So.... you know WoT does not use Havok. But then after you accidentally read the word 'Havok' in the EULA you magically found it in the game files, even when you just before stated that you know WoT doesn't use Havok? So which is it? Just because there are traces, or remnants, doesn't actually mean the game uses it btw.

 


Edited by AliceUnchained, 18 November 2017 - 11:28 AM.


RinTin_NL #18 Posted 18 November 2017 - 11:26 AM

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So the game file size goes form 20GB (HD) to 60GB or more?

Edited by RinTin_NL, 18 November 2017 - 11:27 AM.


Phobos4321 #19 Posted 18 November 2017 - 12:00 PM

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View PostRinTin_NL, on 18 November 2017 - 11:26 AM, said:

So the game file size goes form 20GB (HD) to 60GB or more?

probably more  the sandbox client was 28,2gb in size  with  about 8 maps in it if you scale it up to the ~42 maps 

 

ok tanks should be the same, they share textures among maps  but still there should be plenty of objects and textures waiting to be added to that client  so i wouldnt really be surprised to see a 60-80gb client somewhere in the future  if they go the hd sound ways like in wows  90-100gb seems possible

 

sheer size is rarely a problem if the files get nicely compressed for installation  and patches wont require you to replace all that giant archive files   



Strappster #20 Posted 18 November 2017 - 12:13 PM

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View Postmathwat, on 18 November 2017 - 10:21 AM, said:

Plus the old replays wouldn’t work either if you removed old tank files.

 

Generally speaking, old replays don't work with newer game versions; even a minor update can break replay files.

 

I suspect old tanks are still in the game files because no one's bothered to remove them, which is common with software development particularly on large-scale projects as you never know if something else will break. It could be something as simple as a wreck model using the assets from an older tank and removing it would mean that map not loading or causing a client crash when you try to view that area - better to leave the files alone than take the risk of removing them.







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