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TD not longer competitive?


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nighteyes2013 #1 Posted 20 November 2017 - 01:10 AM

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With the recent say, 5 patches now , i get the feeling that wargaming is only putting effort in making heavy tanks better and better, and introducing more and more of them, especially at higher tiers. I am a typical TD player. And for some time now, i've noticed that the abilities of any of my TD's to pen anything, have been steadily decreasing. Unless i'm a higher tier, chances of actually doing damage without gold ammo have dropped to about 25% of pen's. Hitting weakspots at long range isn't an option. Getting closer without the armor also isn't an option. I'm really feeling TD's are actually getting nerfed here by making all other tanks better. Even in the upcoming patch again, fun TD's are getting nerfed. I suppose WG wants everyone to just buy heavies and start buying gold. 

 

For a long time now, the fun i get out of this game has been steadily going down, And its mostly to do with the fact that whatever i try to do, the chance of penetrations are so incredibly low due to too strong heavies. So its either buy gold, or stop playing. Well, im gonna stop playing. IMHO wargaming has been playing a subtle game to get more players to buy gold, and its seriously affecting the fun of the game.

 

I have been buying gold in the past, but only for premium tanks, or retraining crew, never for ammo. However i'm not spending another dime. I dont mind losing a game, as long as i get some fun out of the match itself. Win or lose doesn't really matter that much too me, I always just try to have a fun game, but that doesn't happen too often anymore. Typically, whenever i try a few rounds of WOT, it sometimes happens that you get some frustating games, and stop playing, only to pick it up later and have a better session. As long as the good sessions and the bad sessions are somewhat balanced, i would be fine with it. But its been a long time indeed when i ended a WOT session with any feeling of satisfaction, even when winning. 

 

Am i alone in this? or does anyone else notice the same thing here?



clixor #2 Posted 20 November 2017 - 01:19 AM

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It isn't just TD's . I think it's more an issue of accuracy. The nerfs to accuracy and RNG involved just made it that sniping with anything other than the most accurate guns is just very unreliable. Switching to gold may not even help if it's heat with bad shell velocity. So all in all this can indeed be a very frustrating experience.

Strizi #3 Posted 20 November 2017 - 01:22 AM

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Thats why so many games are full of tds which make playing offensive a disgusting thing right?

Edited by Strizi, 20 November 2017 - 01:22 AM.


yun9 #4 Posted 20 November 2017 - 01:24 AM

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You do realise that TDs are the ones that are impacted the absolute least by heavy tanks getting better right? The guns have much higher pen on average so the gameplay should change less and it did. The tanks that really got screwed over by the changes are the ones that are high DPM and low pen, and there aren't very many of those regarding TDs. 

 

Your level of fun might have gone down, but I can pretty much guarantee that it is not because of that TDs are worse. It's by far the most popular class right now and it's almost back to 2012 levels of TD spam.

 

View Postclixor, on 20 November 2017 - 01:19 AM, said:

It isn't just TD's . I think it's more an issue of accuracy. The nerfs to accuracy and RNG involved just made it that sniping with anything other than the most accurate guns is just very unreliable. Switching to gold may not even help if it's heat with bad shell velocity. So all in all this can indeed be a very frustrating experience.

 

Accuracy buffs is a bad idea, remember that the Grille 15 was so overpowered when it came out that it pretty much broke tier 10 just because of accuracy and alpha combo. This game does not need lasercannons hitting for 750 at 500m reliably, that's really bad for the game. 

Warzey #5 Posted 20 November 2017 - 03:25 AM

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TDs have loads of problems, but penetrating enemy heavies is not one of them. This is especially true for T8 and higher TDs. When bounces occur it's most likely due to poorly aimed shot or unfortunate accuracy RNG and not due to lack of penetration.

On the other hand this "rule" is not true in all cases, when we have extreme power difference between tiers (T6 vs T8 and T7 vs T9) TDs can potentially struggle to deal with high tier tanks. 



Kolmiopaavo #6 Posted 20 November 2017 - 06:01 AM

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Judging by the amount of tier 10 TDs in the matches recently I dont think theyre uncompetitive at all.

Edited by Kolmiopaavo, 20 November 2017 - 06:03 AM.


_EXODUZ_ #7 Posted 20 November 2017 - 06:51 AM

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Did you consider that you're not playing your TD's properly?

Bennie182 #8 Posted 20 November 2017 - 08:45 AM

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View Postnighteyes2013, on 20 November 2017 - 01:10 AM, said:

With the recent say, 5 patches now , i get the feeling that wargaming is only putting effort in making heavy tanks better and better, and introducing more and more of them, especially at higher tiers. I am a typical TD player. And for some time now, i've noticed that the abilities of any of my TD's to pen anything, have been steadily decreasing. Unless i'm a higher tier, chances of actually doing damage without gold ammo have dropped to about 25% of pen's. Hitting weakspots at long range isn't an option. Getting closer without the armor also isn't an option. I'm really feeling TD's are actually getting nerfed here by making all other tanks better. Even in the upcoming patch again, fun TD's are getting nerfed. I suppose WG wants everyone to just buy heavies and start buying gold. 

 

the fat words already made me want to push the "dislike" button.. wait there is none... :/

 

For a long time now, the fun i get out of this game has been steadily going down, And its mostly to do with the fact that whatever i try to do, the chance of penetrations are so incredibly low due to too strong heavies. So its either buy gold, or stop playing. Well, im gonna stop playing. IMHO wargaming has been playing a subtle game to get more players to buy gold, and its seriously affecting the fun of the game.

 

Wait.. that's good news! one bushcamper less! might as well be able to reach enemy base and have a chance to win =o neither will we miss you.

 

I have been buying gold in the past, but only for premium tanks, or retraining crew, never for ammo. However i'm not spending another dime. I dont mind losing a game, as long as i get some fun out of the match itself. Win or lose doesn't really matter that much too me, I always just try to have a fun game, but that doesn't happen too often anymore. Typically, whenever i try a few rounds of WOT, it sometimes happens that you get some frustating games, and stop playing, only to pick it up later and have a better session. As long as the good sessions and the bad sessions are somewhat balanced, i would be fine with it. But its been a long time indeed when i ended a WOT session with any feeling of satisfaction, even when winning. 

 

Am i alone in this? or does anyone else notice the same thing here?

I don't feel rewarded for playing actively, as being constantly punished by those bushcampers, for playing strategically well.

 

View PostStrizi, on 20 November 2017 - 01:22 AM, said:

Thats why so many games are full of tds which make playing offensive a disgusting thing right?

exactly... this.. the chance of being able to avoid them has dropped as well because of the increased numbers ingame. I doubt that your accuracy theory is right, but if so, I hope a lot of players will join you and leave. Then finally active players will be rewarded more.



iztok #9 Posted 20 November 2017 - 08:46 AM

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Hi!

> With the recent say, 5 patches now ,

>... I'm really feeling TD's are actually getting nerfed

It's the game meta for the last 3-4 years - mostly corridor maps, reduced bushes, short fire lanes... Nowadays if TD doesn't have turret or good armor it usually doesn't last long.

 

BR,  Iztok



Noo_Noo #10 Posted 20 November 2017 - 08:54 AM

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I'd say TD's are in a pretty good place right now to be honest. If Arty wasn't so utterly broken there'd be a few more TD whine threads I think. 

Skorpion is popular because it's damn good. High Tier Swedish TD's are invisible damage monsters that can mountain goat. FV4005 just been buffed and possibly a little too far. New Chinese TD line etc. 

Agree with comments above on the turretless TD's though. They do struggle more in the current meta. 

dennez #11 Posted 20 November 2017 - 08:58 AM

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So with each game literally infested with insane alpha bushwanking camping TDs you actually think they're on the decline? I wish.. I'd imagine - you being a "typical TD player" -  that your biggest problem would be to find a redline bush that isn't already occupied by 3 other TD's or clickers.

 



NUKLEAR_SLUG #12 Posted 20 November 2017 - 10:50 AM

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View Postnighteyes2013, on 20 November 2017 - 01:10 AM, said:

I have been buying gold in the past, but only for premium tanks, or retraining crew, never for ammo. However i'm not spending another dime.

 

 You're buying gold ammo with actual gold? Buy it with credits you donkey.

Edited by NUKLEAR_SLUG, 20 November 2017 - 10:51 AM.


Dr_Oolen #13 Posted 20 November 2017 - 10:52 AM

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View Postzlxzllzllxlzllxlzlx, on 20 November 2017 - 01:24 AM, said:

You do realise that TDs are the ones that are impacted the absolute least by heavy tanks getting better right? The guns have much higher pen on average so the gameplay should change less and it did. The tanks that really got screwed over by the changes are the ones that are high DPM and low pen, and there aren't very many of those regarding TDs. 

 

Your level of fun might have gone down, but I can pretty much guarantee that it is not because of that TDs are worse. It's by far the most popular class right now and it's almost back to 2012 levels of TD spam.

 

 

Accuracy buffs is a bad idea, remember that the Grille 15 was so overpowered when it came out that it pretty much broke tier 10 just because of accuracy and alpha combo. This game does not need lasercannons hitting for 750 at 500m reliably, that's really bad for the game. 

 

Well, blame WG for their dank balancing. TDs have been completely useless for some 3 years now and are being played so much purely because of the cancer balance of heavies. For an average/bad player its definitely preferable not to have to spam gold 24/7 to be able to pen a broken as [edited]heavy, and given their understanding of the game they probably dont even grasp how TDs are completely useless, and ARE being made more and more useless by the overbuffing of heavies, just as all other tanks are, but from their point of view doing 1.5k dmg without spamming gold sure is preferable to doing nothing shooting regular ammo out of meds/heavies. TDs ARE god awful and terrible and easily the most useless class to play (with few exceptions of e3/jpe/t95/soon t28, which are just as broken as the heavies), even more so than lights, but thats what only "good" players see. 

 

You pretentions "unicums" are simply blaming the wrong people here. Theres nothing wrong with TDs per se, they are in general completely useless and bad compared to all other tanks. Its WGs balancing of heavies and shitlord-level map design that is the problem, forcing people who dont press 22 in countdown to play TDs if they want to do more than nothing at all, and then force them to redline in base because the maps dont allow for anything else if youre a TD, because TDs are balanced so terribly that most of them literally cant do anything else than to redline.



UrQuan #14 Posted 20 November 2017 - 10:53 AM

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The high number of TD's in the game don't agree with you OP. If anything, it's lights & med tanks that are losing their competitive edge. 

Dragonlordcv #15 Posted 20 November 2017 - 10:54 AM

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View Postnighteyes2013, on 20 November 2017 - 12:10 AM, said:

With the recent say, 5 patches now , i get the feeling that wargaming is only putting effort in making heavy tanks better and better, and introducing more and more of them, especially at higher tiers. I am a typical TD player. And for some time now, i've noticed that the abilities of any of my TD's to pen anything, have been steadily decreasing. Unless i'm a higher tier, chances of actually doing damage without gold ammo have dropped to about 25% of pen's. Hitting weakspots at long range isn't an option. Getting closer without the armor also isn't an option. I'm really feeling TD's are actually getting nerfed here by making all other tanks better. Even in the upcoming patch again, fun TD's are getting nerfed. I suppose WG wants everyone to just buy heavies and start buying gold. 

 

For a long time now, the fun i get out of this game has been steadily going down, And its mostly to do with the fact that whatever i try to do, the chance of penetrations are so incredibly low due to too strong heavies. So its either buy gold, or stop playing. Well, im gonna stop playing. IMHO wargaming has been playing a subtle game to get more players to buy gold, and its seriously affecting the fun of the game.

 

I have been buying gold in the past, but only for premium tanks, or retraining crew, never for ammo. However i'm not spending another dime. I dont mind losing a game, as long as i get some fun out of the match itself. Win or lose doesn't really matter that much too me, I always just try to have a fun game, but that doesn't happen too often anymore. Typically, whenever i try a few rounds of WOT, it sometimes happens that you get some frustating games, and stop playing, only to pick it up later and have a better session. As long as the good sessions and the bad sessions are somewhat balanced, i would be fine with it. But its been a long time indeed when i ended a WOT session with any feeling of satisfaction, even when winning. 

 

Am i alone in this? or does anyone else notice the same thing here?

 

For years now you can buy premium (gold) ammo with credits but you have not realized it yet.... Its not WG fault its your won lack of observation and info gathering.... You can stop playing any time you want nobody will miss you nor WG.

Kalashnikova_blyat #16 Posted 20 November 2017 - 10:56 AM

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yes...buff TD is on the way :)

Cobra6 #17 Posted 20 November 2017 - 11:38 AM

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Welcome to "World of Steve the IS-7 Driver" where the only viable class will soon be superheavies :teethhappy:

 

It's not just TD's that are affected, it's all classes.

 

Cobra 6



tajj7 #18 Posted 20 November 2017 - 01:01 PM

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If this was true, why is everyone playing them? It is not uncommon to see tier 10 games with 5 or 6 TDs a side and they have a massive impact on gameplay.

 

There are also some TDs that have clear balancing issues and need a re-work, like the 183s, Swedish TDs etc. thanks to WG's extreme balancing. 

 

Of the top 50 most popular tanks in the game at the moment according to Vbaddict, 12 are TDs, which is higher than 1 in 5. 

 

There are issues with map design and armour power creep, but I'd reckon mediums and lights suffer from this more than TDs. 



Enforcer1975 #19 Posted 20 November 2017 - 01:22 PM

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View Post_EXODUZ_, on 20 November 2017 - 06:51 AM, said:

Did you consider that you're not playing your TD's properly?

How can you play a TD the wrong way? Drive 50m from base to the next bush and wait for the first tank to pop up.

First time i drove a medium to the front i had tunnel vision...in the Matilda. 



SastusBulbas #20 Posted 20 November 2017 - 01:33 PM

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View Post_EXODUZ_, on 20 November 2017 - 06:51 AM, said:

Did you consider that you're not playing your TD's properly?

 

Is there a proper way to play a TD these days in WoT  :confused:

 

Appologies, been having a nightmare grinding the AT-15 with wild notions of actually getting to tier 10 before they change it.  So far more luck and team dependant than skill, by the time you get anywhere and your team drives their tanks around backwards shooting each other it's over as your flanked artied dead.






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