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AMX 30 B


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Jeroenpeter #1 Posted 20 November 2017 - 05:38 PM

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Altough the buffs were really nice, the nerfs killed this vehicle.

-Give it back it's shell velocity (I can't snipe anymore, because i'm used to the old shell velocity)

-Buff heat pen to like 310-320 (Can't pen type 5 frontally without aiming (And thus giving him a chance to aim and derp 1400 HP away))

-Give back it's accurcy

 

I grinded the 30b because i wanted a special sniper vehicle with OK dpm, Ok gun depression, Good gun handling and nice mobility. Now i've got a brawler, but because of the weakspots everywhere, everyone pens it on short distance.

The turret armor is only useful at long range, but the tank is not good at long range because of poor penetration, bad gun handling and slow velocity.

And because this game only knows 2 kind of maps (City or ridgeline brawl) the cupola is so annoying when at a ridgeline, with enemy 140s and t62a just snapping shots in. So find a prototype without the huge cupola just like you did with the m48...



Poerhis #2 Posted 20 November 2017 - 05:50 PM

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To summarize. In addition to having amazing mobility, best in class dpm and great gun handling you also want best shell velocity, best accuracy and penetration you can use to fight a superheavy from the front? Without aiming that is.

 

Seems reasonable.

 

Tanks change. Adapt or migrate.



Jeroenpeter #3 Posted 20 November 2017 - 05:59 PM

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View PostPoerhis, on 20 November 2017 - 05:50 PM, said:

To summarize. In addition to having amazing mobility, best in class dpm and great gun handling you also want best shell velocity, best accuracy and penetration you can use to fight a superheavy from the front? Without aiming that is.

 

Seems reasonable.

 

Tanks change. Adapt or migrate.

*great gun handling*

I'm not even going to look ur tanks up, I can just tell u don't have it.

You can't use ur dpm, because of the low pen and pour gun handling, like 3/5 shots miss or bounce. I would love to trade some dpm for some gun handling and shell velocity.

The 30B needed a buff, not a rework. Just like the type 5 needed a buff and not a rework. 



brumbarr #4 Posted 20 November 2017 - 06:02 PM

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So you basicly want it to be the best tierX medium and have no weaknesses at all?

It alreayd has best in class dpm with great gun handling, and you want to remove all drawbacks?

NO, just NO.

I am ok with giving it more shell velocity or more pen, not with all of the buffs at once, that would be ridiculous.



Strappster #5 Posted 20 November 2017 - 06:07 PM

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View PostJeroenpeter, on 20 November 2017 - 04:38 PM, said:

... (Can't pen type 5 frontally without aiming (And thus giving him a chance to aim and derp 1400 HP away)) ...

 

Someone tell me again why WG doesn't listen to experienced players when they suggest balance ideas.



Poerhis #6 Posted 20 November 2017 - 06:11 PM

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The gun dispersion values are great, yes.  0,12 0,12 0,04 as compared to the M48 that has 0,10 0,10 0,08 for instance. The observed crappiness most likely comes from the tank being amazingly agile, so you are bound to be zooming and blooming around.

Sfinski #7 Posted 20 November 2017 - 06:12 PM

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View PostJeroenpeter, on 20 November 2017 - 06:59 PM, said:

*great gun handling*

I'm not even going to look ur tanks up, I can just tell u don't have it.

You can't use ur dpm, because of the low pen and pour gun handling, like 3/5 shots miss or bounce. I would love to trade some dpm for some gun handling and shell velocity.

The 30B needed a buff, not a rework. Just like the type 5 needed a buff and not a rework. 

 

Mate, it has better gun handling than 140... 

Aikl #8 Posted 20 November 2017 - 06:22 PM

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View PostJeroenpeter, on 20 November 2017 - 04:38 PM, said:

(...)

I grinded the 30b because i wanted a special sniper vehicle(...). Now i've got a brawler, (...)

 

Kind of the core issue here, and likely why WG is not too keen on making tanks speciul. I mean, it's not exactly illegal to rebalance tanks (especially non-prems), but I can kind of understand his frustration, and is essentially why we get the T10 gift tanks when they change (in addition to being nice cash cows).



Balc0ra #9 Posted 20 November 2017 - 06:25 PM

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View PostJeroenpeter, on 20 November 2017 - 05:59 PM, said:

*great gun handling*

I'm not even going to look ur tanks up, I can just tell u don't have it.

You can't use ur dpm, because of the low pen and pour gun handling, like 3/5 shots miss or bounce. I would love to trade some dpm for some gun handling and shell velocity.

The 30B needed a buff, not a rework. Just like the type 5 needed a buff and not a rework. 

 

I don't have the B, but I have the tier IX AMX 30 with the same gun. And it's a good snapper, as I feel it has better gun handling then most of my tier X meds, even the 3000 dpm 140. Nor did I have issues leading targets with it, even with the 30% slower shell speed. Unless you spam HEAT with 800m/s that is. Then sure. E

 

But when you give a tank 2x more turret armor, and over 400 more dpm suddenly. You usually have to down scale on something else when you give it those strengths. As you want the 3000 dpm, and still have the 260 pen and 1500 shell velocity on a 105mm gun, with 2x more turret armor so you can pen a tier X super heavy head on, while keeping the highest top speed, mobility and power to weight on tier X?  You can see that's not ideal right?

 

And how often do you brawl head on with tier X Super Heavies?. My tier 9 AMX 30 still has no issues doing damage to the Type 5.... because I don't go the HT line to seek it out head on. And with that way better ROF, keeping it in place is not and issue either if you use range. As the Type 5 is not a good range fighter.

 


Edited by Balc0ra, 20 November 2017 - 06:26 PM.


__H3H3__ #10 Posted 21 November 2017 - 09:18 AM

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Grind a Leopard :). Its the amx 30 b before is got buffed.

TungstenHitman #11 Posted 21 November 2017 - 10:55 AM

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I'm currently grinding this line, so is it a good tank or not? Should I go with the BatChat option instead?

 

View Postanother_Ghost_Shell, on 21 November 2017 - 08:18 AM, said:

Grind a Leopard :). Its the amx 30 b before is got buffed.

 

I'm also grinding this line too but the armor looks weak, I absolutely humiliated a Leopard with a T-10 on Himmelsdorf, was nothing much he could do about it... that's not to say another player wouldn't have handled the situation better but he panicked maybe and I just didn't even have to aim, them shots 400+ module wrecking soviet shells kept on plowing through his paper tank while I pinned him to a wall until his turret launched into the air lol.... maybe best not get caught in a dark alley with a burly Russian heavy if you have a delicate little snowflake. I'm actually re-thinking the lines I'm grinding, maybe a big ugly lump with massive armor, big alpha and a decent 2 key for all occasions is the way to play this game and not so much the accurate gunned paper boxes

Bennie182 #12 Posted 21 November 2017 - 01:55 PM

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View Postbrumbarr, on 20 November 2017 - 06:02 PM, said:

So you basicly want it to be the best tierX medium and have no weaknesses at all?

It alreayd has best in class dpm with great gun handling, and you want to remove all drawbacks?

NO, just NO.

I am ok with giving it more shell velocity or more pen, not with all of the buffs at once, that would be ridiculous.

it's hard not to read what you want it to be, when 'reading' someone's post, right?

 

the tank was fine and the "nerf" as I would describe it as well, has not made it interesting anymore for me to play it. I chose that line because of the capabilities it used to have, before they changed it. They could have done exactly those changes to the Leopard PTA, but they did it to the French line. If I had known they would change it I wouldn't have gone for it. Even invested a female crew in it for nothing.

 

View Postanother_Ghost_Shell, on 21 November 2017 - 09:18 AM, said:

Grind a Leopard :). Its the amx 30 b before is got buffed.

Sure.. I will just invest a lot of time to get something I already had, but on a different line...

As far as I know the AMX 30 was better then the PTA still is. I've been testing the PTA long ago and found the reload waaaay too long compared to other t9 meds.



TungstenHitman #13 Posted 21 November 2017 - 03:11 PM

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A Historical description of the AMX 30 was a tank that sacrificed decent armor as it was envisaged with anti tank weapons that armor was obsolete and in turn the tank was designed as a really mobile platform that with supreme long range capabilities superior to all tanks at the time apart from the Leopard so this tank should be one of the best sniper tanks in the game unless WG decided to break away from being historically accurate. Obviously WG has ruined historical tanks before but in this case if they have taken away the long range advantages from this tank then what are you left with? Most maps are small anyway so if the tank isn't that great on the few maps that are suitable then why bother with it at all? You could just use an E50 instead for the reasonable acceptable long rage stuff yet have 1000 times better armor for the city brawling side scrapping stuff? Or chose one of the Russian mediums... I really hope OP is just dramatizing this tanks long range nerfing

commer #14 Posted 21 November 2017 - 03:25 PM

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View PostJeroenpeter, on 20 November 2017 - 05:59 PM, said:

*great gun handling*

I'm not even going to look ur tanks up, I can just tell u don't have it.

You can't use ur dpm, because of the low pen and pour gun handling, like 3/5 shots miss or bounce. I would love to trade some dpm for some gun handling and shell velocity.

The 30B needed a buff, not a rework. Just like the type 5 needed a buff and not a rework. 

 

Yeah 0.04 turret traverse is crap. Though yeah the moving and track traverse is a bit worse it's still 3rd in class with 3rd in class aim time and only 0.01 worse acc than obj140

brumbarr #15 Posted 21 November 2017 - 03:26 PM

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View PostTungstenHitman, on 21 November 2017 - 03:11 PM, said:

A Historical description of the AMX 30 was a tank that sacrificed decent armor as it was envisaged with anti tank weapons that armor was obsolete and in turn the tank was designed as a really mobile platform that with supreme long range capabilities superior to all tanks at the time apart from the Leopard so this tank should be one of the best sniper tanks in the game unless WG decided to break away from being historically accurate. Obviously WG has ruined historical tanks before but in this case if they have taken away the long range advantages from this tank then what are you left with? Most maps are small anyway so if the tank isn't that great on the few maps that are suitable then why bother with it at all? You could just use an E50 instead for the reasonable acceptable long rage stuff yet have 1000 times better armor for the city brawling side scrapping stuff? Or chose one of the Russian mediums... I really hope OP is just dramatizing this tanks long range nerfing

It used to be like that, but that was kimd of problematic,  since you then had basicly 2 of the same tanks at tX ( leo and amx) and they both sucked. So WG had to differentiate them somehow. Although i am not sure about the way they did it.



commer #16 Posted 21 November 2017 - 03:30 PM

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View PostTungstenHitman, on 21 November 2017 - 03:11 PM, said:

A Historical description of the AMX 30 was a tank that sacrificed decent armor as it was envisaged with anti tank weapons that armor was obsolete and in turn the tank was designed as a really mobile platform that with supreme long range capabilities superior to all tanks at the time apart from the Leopard so this tank should be one of the best sniper tanks in the game unless WG decided to break away from being historically accurate. Obviously WG has ruined historical tanks before but in this case if they have taken away the long range advantages from this tank then what are you left with? Most maps are small anyway so if the tank isn't that great on the few maps that are suitable then why bother with it at all? You could just use an E50 instead for the reasonable acceptable long rage stuff yet have 1000 times better armor for the city brawling side scrapping stuff? Or chose one of the Russian mediums... I really hope OP is just dramatizing this tanks long range nerfing

 

It's a completely different tank. It's a mid range tank. Not enough armor to brawl close range but great gun stats and dpm so it can fight at 100-250m and dpm crapdown thanks to amazing snapshot ability. High dpm means you can also afford to miss more. Sniping meds are crapanyway given the corridor meta. The only thing that bums me is the crapheat. 

Bennie182 #17 Posted 21 November 2017 - 03:31 PM

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View PostTungstenHitman, on 21 November 2017 - 03:11 PM, said:

A Historical description of the AMX 30 was a tank that sacrificed decent armor as it was envisaged with anti tank weapons that armor was obsolete and in turn the tank was designed as a really mobile platform that with supreme long range capabilities superior to all tanks at the time apart from the Leopard so this tank should be one of the best sniper tanks in the game unless WG decided to break away from being historically accurate. Obviously WG has ruined historical tanks before but in this case if they have taken away the long range advantages from this tank then what are you left with? Most maps are small anyway so if the tank isn't that great on the few maps that are suitable then why bother with it at all? You could just use an E50 instead for the reasonable acceptable long rage stuff yet have 1000 times better armor for the city brawling side scrapping stuff? Or chose one of the Russian mediums... I really hope OP is just dramatizing this tanks long range nerfing

View Postbrumbarr, on 21 November 2017 - 03:26 PM, said:

It used to be like that, but that was kimd of problematic,  since you then had basicly 2 of the same tanks at tX ( leo and amx) and they both sucked. So WG had to differentiate them somehow. Although i am not sure about the way they did it.

as TungstenHitman said about the historic value: they could have changed the Leopard (PTA) instead of the French.

commer #18 Posted 21 November 2017 - 03:34 PM

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View PostBennie182, on 21 November 2017 - 03:31 PM, said:

as TungstenHitman said about the historic value: they could have changed the Leopard (PTA) instead of the French.

 

Playability is more important than historic value. If the game was historically accurate you would have Jtigers fighting m4s. 

Bennie182 #19 Posted 21 November 2017 - 03:36 PM

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View Postcommer, on 21 November 2017 - 03:34 PM, said:

 

Playability is more important than historic value. If the game was historically accurate you would have Jtigers fighting m4s. 

Then my point still stands.. they could have changed the German line instead, as they said, both lines were too similar.



commer #20 Posted 21 November 2017 - 03:37 PM

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View PostBennie182, on 21 November 2017 - 03:36 PM, said:

Then my point still stands.. they could have changed the German line instead, as they said, both lines were too similar.

 

How your point still stands. Since historic value is unimportant than who cares which line was changed. AMX30 was a slightly worse sniper than Leo so it was chosen for a rebalance. Also the 30b was a much MUCH less popular tank so it was chosen to encourage grinding towards it. 




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