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It's time to do something with Panther mit 8,8 cm L/71

panther 8.8 Buff Panther 8.8 German premium medium tank

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Poll: What kind of Buff for Panther 8.8? (45 members have cast votes)

You have to complete 250 battles in order to participate this poll.

What kind of Buff for Panther 8.8?

  1. Aim time & Penetracia (26 votes [38.81%])

    Percentage of vote: 38.81%

  2. Gun depression (same as CDC and Mutz 58& other mediums W/O armor) (7 votes [10.45%])

    Percentage of vote: 10.45%

  3. Mobility (18 votes [26.87%])

    Percentage of vote: 26.87%

  4. Rate of fire. (10 votes [14.93%])

    Percentage of vote: 14.93%

  5. More damage per shot (6 votes [8.96%])

    Percentage of vote: 8.96%

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Unicums_worst_Nightmare #1 Posted 25 November 2017 - 04:35 PM

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It's time to do something with Panther mit 8,8 cm L/71.   

Give it same penetracia as Panther II or better Aim time and preferential matchmaking. 

Its Huge box tank. Compared to Mutz 58, Mutz 58 is smaller, autobounce angles(better armor) faster, better gun depression and top of that better penetracia. Only thing what is good about Panther 8.8 is RoF. 

 

Even t-34-3 has now some character and its interesting to play because 390dmg per shot.. But Panther 8.8 is so boring. Panther's playstyle as TD is boring. And in distance AP shells loses its penetracia. and caliber is even bad for overmatching. Boring as flanker too.  Tier X games is catastrophe. Everybody laughts about your penetration and dmg (240). And just drives over you.

 

My average dmg in this thing is only 1086. (yes, potato player) 

 

Engine Buff was good and gun depression -8 all around. But panther II feels faster better penetration aimtime accuaracy. and a bit worse RoF. In my opinion we need to put Panther 8.8 is same boat with Panther II. or different boats and different matchmakings.

 

It was worst Premium before and still it keeps this position. Yes yes I know Mutz is Nutz new era powercreep premium.. bla bla bla...

 

Sorry for my bad english. One day I will cut off those fool horns:deer:

 

 

 

 



Balc0ra #2 Posted 25 November 2017 - 04:48 PM

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View PostFunkyMoneY, on 25 November 2017 - 04:35 PM, said:

It's time to do something with Panther mit 8,8 cm L/71.   

Give it same penetracia as Panther II or better Aim time and preferential matchmaking.

 

As you said. It's called mit 8.8 cm L/71. Not mit 8.8 cm L/100. If they buffed the pen on that one, they  would have to buff it on every L/71 user. Inc the Tiger. As you can see when inspecting the gun. it's a shared gun on among even normal tank. Not a unique gun just for that premium like most of them have.

 

And I would not hope for pref MM. As WG sees that as a problem on tier 8 atm, and want's it gone. They even want to remove it from the IS-6 and KV-5 to name a few "when buffing it's gun ofc". So I would not hope for WG to give it to a tier 8 as it stands now. They have only done that do one Premium so far iirc. The AT-15A, that had +2 when it arrived. If any premium medium tank should get Pref MM... It's the M4 Improved with 92 pen vs tier 7.  


Edited by Balc0ra, 25 November 2017 - 04:49 PM.


Cpt_VV #3 Posted 25 November 2017 - 05:21 PM

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Yeah, it's wierd tank. Rly big. Just compare it with Emil, which is HT and you are MT. Dunow, it's just underperforms. Pen is okish, but fails often due to rly strange RNG on this tank. I've played Panther II same way as 8.8. WR in Panther II was at the end cca 62% (in one moment was 65%) but in Panther 8.8 only 47%. It's a team dependant vehicle. It means if you play as you should, support your tanks because it has nice DPM, you will win. If not, well, you're screwed. It's a huge hitbox, altough turret can bounce in its own tier, but you can't push and carry the game.

 

Anywayz, only solution is to rework it like they did with SuperPershing before and offer players who owns it to keep the tank or get the 100% gold refund. This tank needs some love because it can be awesome if they tweak it little bit.



Havenless #4 Posted 25 November 2017 - 06:27 PM

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Preferential matchmaking would be the way to go with these tier 8 mediums. Giving them small buffs here and there just won't make them competitive, like -10 gun depression or 212 penetration. That's how far behind they are in quality compared to genuinely good tier 8 tanks.

 

I always lol when I play a PMM tank like KV-5 and I run into these tanks. I easily pen them with almost every shot with my tier 6.5 penetration gun while they have to aim for weak spots. I also have tons of hitpoints, more alpha and more DPM. The fights are very one-sided, even with 300 alpha and armor full of obvious weak spots I can easily out-trade these tanks or just sh*t on them if they don't have much support. And I am supposed to be the one driving the "weak" tank that was given PMM. It is quite sad how toothless those tanks really are, they're sh*t in any and all duties. Lorraine 40t is the only exception. All others are just plain bad, some more, some less..

 

A tank with 240 alpha and 200 pen with fairly good mobility and no armor is never going to be competitive. Not against same tier tanks, and even less so against higher tiers. The tier 8 mediums would need 280-320 alpha and around 230 penetration each to be competitive. That's how massive the buffs would have to be for these tanks to be playable. Anything less than that keeps them useless.


Edited by Havenless, 25 November 2017 - 06:28 PM.


Emeraldweed #5 Posted 25 November 2017 - 06:32 PM

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i would say give it armor but meh

Havenless #6 Posted 25 November 2017 - 06:41 PM

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View PostEmeraldweed, on 25 November 2017 - 08:32 PM, said:

i would say give it armor but meh

 

Armor buffs for mediums are a failure unless they are tier 9-10 or have PMM. Spending most of the time in tier 9-10 battles would require so large scale buffs for the armor to be workable that lower tiers couldn't hurt it. If you buff its armor to like 200 EA it will be like T-54 Mod 1 which has its highlight feature(the armor) disabled in 75% of the battles.

 

With +2/-2 matchmaking playing armored tanks is nowadays a waste of time unless their armor is severely overbuffed or the tank in question has a strong turret to bounce higher tiers.


Edited by Havenless, 25 November 2017 - 06:41 PM.


Unicums_worst_Nightmare #7 Posted 25 November 2017 - 07:45 PM

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View PostEmeraldweed, on 25 November 2017 - 06:32 PM, said:

i would say give it armor but meh

 

Panther 8.8 must be all about gun. "Glass cannon" like CDC. Only bigger with not that good gundepression and mobility and penetration.  Armor buff isn't necessary it's wannabe Sniper/TD anyways. But how it's  now its really boring tank. Only what is good about it I like how it looks and this is only one reason why i play it at all.

 

In my opinion Rof fire buff to improve its main strenght. and penetracia buff to stop tier X laughts. 

But all famous German tanks are laughable. Tiger I and Tiger II, Panther II, Panther 8.8. they are boring to play. Its hard to find their role in battle. Not this not that something under average.



Aikl #8 Posted 25 November 2017 - 07:54 PM

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While WG isn't particularly known for historical approaches, they do lean towards semi-historical solutions whenever possible. Buffing the pen is doubtful. APCR as standard... eh, maybe. Probably not, and mostly an on-paper improvement.

 

Since the Panther 8.8 already is historically very doubtful, and leaning towards Panther II development, you could always include certain other stuff from it. A Turbopanther would indeed be kinda fun. Huge improvement? No. Fun and interesting? Heck yes!

 

 

From: https://en.wikipedia..._II_tank#Engine

It's worth noting that the idea of using the long 88 on the Panther II was also very much just a project idea, and hence it fits rather well that they used both the crazy idea of a long 88 and some semi-fantasy jet engine to propel the tank.



hasnainrakha57 #9 Posted 25 November 2017 - 08:49 PM

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Only fools would buy mit when the same thing is available in tech tree which you can get it for free.Buy another medium.Buy tanks which are different from eachother.

Unicums_worst_Nightmare #10 Posted 26 November 2017 - 02:15 AM

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View Posthasnainrakha57, on 25 November 2017 - 08:49 PM, said:

Only fools would buy mit when the same thing is available in tech tree which you can get it for free.Buy another medium.Buy tanks which are different from eachother.

 

Agree I was fool. Please guys please learn from my mistake. 

ExclamationMark #11 Posted 26 November 2017 - 02:31 AM

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Just remove the armour, it has none anyway.

After that, buff mobility and pen. Gun otherwise is pretty good, the pen just lets it down severely.



Search_Warrant #12 Posted 26 November 2017 - 02:49 AM

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View PostExclamationMark, on 26 November 2017 - 01:31 AM, said:

Just remove the armour, it has none anyway.

After that, buff mobility and pen. Gun otherwise is pretty good, the pen just lets it down severely.

 

Agreed. the gun should be amazing with that giant box target. keep enough armor to stop HE and its fine. just make the gun really good.

Balc0ra #13 Posted 26 November 2017 - 03:00 AM

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View PostExclamationMark, on 26 November 2017 - 02:31 AM, said:

Just remove the armour, it has none anyway.

After that, buff mobility and pen. Gun otherwise is pretty good, the pen just lets it down severely.

 

Well, as it's a shared gun. So either they buff it for all inc the Tiger, or rename it and keep it on the Panthers that needs it. As they have done before. But I don't own it. But have fought against it to know that speed kills it more then the armor does. So getting up to speed faster, and bleeding less of it would be ideal for it. Much like the Panther M10. And buff the gun handling if not the pen. If they could make it on pair with his lower tier brother. It would at least be a start.

 

View PostHavenless, on 25 November 2017 - 06:41 PM, said:

 

Armor buffs for mediums are a failure unless they are tier 9-10 or have PMM. Spending most of the time in tier 9-10 battles would require so large scale buffs for the armor to be workable that lower tiers couldn't hurt it.

 

Armor buffs might make it heavier, as other tanks with armor buffs have been. And for it to be effective vs tier X guns as you said. Would just ruin it more if it loses to much speed. Lowe is a fantastic support tank in +2 games due to the gun. Panther 88 is a support med. But lacks speed and a gun to do so. That's what they need to buff, not the armor. That and don't hope for PMM. WG sees it as a problem. And want's it gone from tier 8.


Edited by Balc0ra, 26 November 2017 - 03:03 AM.


Hiisi #14 Posted 26 November 2017 - 10:19 AM

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German smallturm turret needs a general buff. Turret cheeks needs more armor (similar to russian t-44 turret sides), So that cheeks would be autobounce (turret front should stay easy to pen area/weakspot.) 

 

P88: needs a lot of buffs. Pen needs to be 220+, gold pen 250+ accuracy to 0,30, aimtime to 2,3 and sligth gunhanling buffs (5-10%). Top speed to 50+ km/h (for easier reposition) Viewrange buff to 400m, because it’s a big tank with bad gamo. 

 

Currently ist just a bad tank. You cant pen anything from the front (and you are not that fast to aim and make snapshots) and you are too slow/unarmored/big/easy to spot that you cant flank. P88 should be about good gun and support playstyle.

 

in general many tier 8 medium tanks are just bad. Patton kr vs trump...

 


Edited by Hiisi, 26 November 2017 - 10:20 AM.


Havenless #15 Posted 26 November 2017 - 11:19 AM

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View PostBalc0ra, on 26 November 2017 - 05:00 AM, said:

Armor buffs might make it heavier, as other tanks with armor buffs have been. And for it to be effective vs tier X guns as you said. Would just ruin it more if it loses to much speed. Lowe is a fantastic support tank in +2 games due to the gun. Panther 88 is a support med. But lacks speed and a gun to do so. That's what they need to buff, not the armor. That and don't hope for PMM. WG sees it as a problem. And want's it gone from tier 8.

 

WG seeing something as a problem doesn't mean it's a bad thing. I'd rather have a few tanks without broken matchmaking and that are fun to play than everything suffering from the awful +2/-2. The reason why I've sold all tier 8 meds except for Lorraine is exactly that - they are bland and weak, and they're all the same cannon fodder for higher tiers that they shouldn't be facing. 

 

Frankly the only normal matchmaking tanks worth playing are TDs and the overpowered premiums that make money. The mediums are support tanks with terrible support capabilities and no initiative. Most armored tanks don't have armor 75% of the time, and even the ones that have workable turret armor are forced to play support in most games which makes them frustrating to play. Because I like to play actively I'd happily take a few more PMM tanks.



Dava_117 #16 Posted 26 November 2017 - 11:38 AM

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The poll miss the "it's just fine" option.

As Balc0ra said, it's a shared gun, so it would require to move the buff to all the standard tanks too. And 203mm pen, for a tier 8 med is good.

It also has -8° of depression, wich is good enought for hulldown.

There are tanks that really need a buff, but Panther is not in this list, IMO.



Hiisi #17 Posted 26 November 2017 - 03:43 PM

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View PostDava_117, on 26 November 2017 - 10:38 AM, said:

The poll miss the "it's just fine" option.

As Balc0ra said, it's a shared gun, so it would require to move the buff to all the standard tanks too. And 203mm pen, for a tier 8 med is good.

It also has -8° of depression, wich is good enought for hulldown.

There are tanks that really need a buff, but Panther is not in this list, IMO.

 

​It does seem that you haven't played P88 ever... So why you have this strong of a opinion in it???

 



Horatio__Caine #18 Posted 26 November 2017 - 05:22 PM

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View PostDava_117, on 26 November 2017 - 12:38 PM, said:

The poll miss the "it's just fine" option.

As Balc0ra said, it's a shared gun, so it would require to move the buff to all the standard tanks too. And 203mm pen, for a tier 8 med is good.

It also has -8° of depression, wich is good enought for hulldown.

There are tanks that really need a buff, but Panther is not in this list, IMO.

 

don’t make comments about the tanks you haven’t played please. 

ZlatanArKung #19 Posted 26 November 2017 - 06:46 PM

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View PostDava_117, on 26 November 2017 - 11:38 AM, said:

The poll miss the "it's just fine" option.

As Balc0ra said, it's a shared gun, so it would require to move the buff to all the standard tanks too. And 203mm pen, for a tier 8 med is good.

It also has -8° of depression, wich is good enought for hulldown.

There are tanks that really need a buff, but Panther is not in this list, IMO.

It is the shells that have the Penetration not the gun.

WG could just implement another shell with another Penetration if they wanted to improve its Penetration. 

Just check what they did with Chrysler Kingdom premium shells compared to T32 premium shells. 



Dava_117 #20 Posted 26 November 2017 - 07:27 PM

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View PostHiisi, on 26 November 2017 - 03:43 PM, said:

 

​It does seem that you haven't played P88 ever... So why you have this strong of a opinion in it???

 

 

You're not objective. Plenty of med have less pen (and some of the one with better pen uses APCR, so the effective pen is similar). Shell velocity is also high for an AP (1000), and the 0.31 accuracy isn't bad for a second line supporter. Also plenty of med have less gun dep. 

Obviously the chassis is not that good, considering it has an armour layout almost unchange from tier 6, but you should expect that, knowing it's a panther 1.

May be it doesn't shine, but has a good advantage over most of tier 6 med in the gunnery sector.


Edited by Dava_117, 26 November 2017 - 07:29 PM.





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