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Upcoming T92 Light Tank (Engine health issue / Penetration issue)

Premium pen Not competitive Issue Da Comrade Anti-Skill balancing Engine health

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Cobra6 #1 Posted 27 November 2017 - 06:08 PM

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Spoiler

 

I've thought a bit more about it and the more I do, the more I see this engine health value as just as and even bigger problem than the lack of premium pen.

 

Engine Health:

On itself the penetration would not really be an issue but we come to a second balancing factor that plays up: This tank's engine has got only 104 engine health, other tier 8 light tanks get between 250 and ~370 engine health meaning they won't instantly get destroyed.

A tank that is notorious for having it's engine knocked out every shot it takes, even from low calibre guns is the Swedish tier 6 premium Strv 42-57 autoloader and that gets it's engine destroyed every shot it takes while the engine has a measly 123 health. I played this a lot in skirmishes and every shot from a Type64 or Cromwell in the front destroys the engine, not damage, destroys it.

Imagine having a tank with even less engine health two tiers higher, basically any tier 6 tank an upwards can destroy the engine of this light tank on the first shot.

 

So want to circle a heavy or medium to make use of the standard ammo, all he has to do is hit you at the front and you will grind to a halt, good luck. Additionally if he hits you in the side it's almost a guaranteed shot to get both your engine and your tracks knocked out. Good luck with that small repair kit!

 

And it's true, tanks like the Type62 also have very low engine health but those tanks have one big advantage: Their engine is not at the front like in this tank so it does not risk getting shot so easily. If you peek over a ridgeline in your Type62 there is virtually no change the enemy will ever hit your engine because it's still below the ridgeline at the back. With this tank however if you poke even one centimeter to far your engine is exposed instantly and will get killed with any incoming shot.

In most engagements tanks will receive shots from the front and a light tank, a class that has mobility as it's defense, needs to have a viable engine that doesn't get knocked out by a Type64 in one shot if it's two tiers higher.

 

 

Penetration:

To a lesser extent the premium penetration is also an issue even though the T92 light tank as a package actually looks quite nice. But can we PLEASE for the love of god give it usable premium ammo penetration? Currently it has 210 HEAT penetration on the premium ammo which is less than a lot of T8 mediums have standard penetration.

Tier 7 light tanks have 210mm premium penetration, the competitive T8 lights have 220+mm of premium penetration up to 250.

 

As second problem is that these premium shells cost 5600cr per shot whereas the premium shells on the Bulldog cost only 4400, so not only are you getting underperforming penetration you are also paying 25% more for the privilege of bouncing.

This is absolutely detrimental for the credit making potential and is something that needs to be fixed as well.

 

 

In a world where we sadly have to live with abominations like the Defender and overbuffed Maus/Type5 heavies even light tanks need competitive premium ammo penetration and 210mm just won't do, especially not when it also costs 25% more than similar ammo on regular vehicles.

 

========================

 

UPDATE:

View PostGepard_PH, on 01 December 2017 - 05:06 PM, said:

The issue with engine (getting damaged from every hit) is planned to be fixed tonight during server restart. Engine durability will be increased.

 

Shell cost is balanced out by the profitability factor of the tank - it's one of the highest among Tier VIII. So all in all the credit farming potential is not different from other premium tanks.

 

 

 

 

Source

 

So engine fixed tonight, premium ammo will still happily tank all your credit earning potential as it's apparently balanced to lose matches because firing premium ammo will drain all your profit if you shoot it.


Edited by Cobra6, 02 December 2017 - 01:25 PM.


ExclamationMark #2 Posted 27 November 2017 - 06:09 PM

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just flank noob!!!!

THE_JACK_OF_HEARTS #3 Posted 27 November 2017 - 06:13 PM

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COBRA Moaning again about op tanks etc, same as the moaning he did last year. Give it a rest Cobra its past man, chill.

Kooallu #4 Posted 27 November 2017 - 06:17 PM

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how about remove goldammo from game and start flanking, its [edited]stupid to light tank pen maus/type frontally.

Cobra6 #5 Posted 27 November 2017 - 06:18 PM

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View PostTHE_JACK_OF_HEARTS, on 27 November 2017 - 05:13 PM, said:

COBRA Moaning again about op tanks etc, same as the moaning he did last year. Give it a rest Cobra its past man, chill.

 

What are you on about? It's actually getting released now :teethhappy: I know you are referring to my last year's #WalletClosed because they didn't put the T92 in the Advent Calendar but this thread is about it now with the stats it's getting on release ;)

 

View PostKooallu, on 27 November 2017 - 05:17 PM, said:

how about remove goldammo from game and start flanking, its [edited]stupid to light tank pen maus/type frontally.

 

 

It can be removed as soon as the Maus gets it's weakspots back so "Steve the IS-7 Driver" can't just press "W" and win the match like it's balanced now.

 

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Edited by Cobra6, 27 November 2017 - 06:19 PM.


redgismo #6 Posted 27 November 2017 - 06:18 PM

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Just watched _SaltyJedi_ playing it on his stream, seems pretty good, I don't remember him even loading heat yet doing 2-3k dmg per game.

Dava_117 #7 Posted 27 November 2017 - 06:24 PM

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T92, the shrodinger tank: it'a both a light an SPG untill you check it! :trollface:

Cobra6 #8 Posted 27 November 2017 - 06:31 PM

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View Postredgismo, on 27 November 2017 - 05:18 PM, said:

Just watched _SaltyJedi_ playing it on his stream, seems pretty good, I don't remember him even loading heat yet doing 2-3k dmg per game.

 

Of course it's not a bad tank, I'm not saying that at all. I'm just saying it needs to have the option to defend itself when it gets forced into a corridor in an unfavourable situation due to shoddy map design.

Especially since the engine health is so critically low that if you receive a shot the engine dies, you can't move and you can't circle of flank. 104 Engine health means that pretty much *every* shot that hits it destroys your engine, not yellow but red.

 

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Dr_Oolen #9 Posted 27 November 2017 - 06:53 PM

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Even if the t8 MM wasnt as good as it is, id still not buy it with that engine hp and that pitiful pen. I mean, 175 apcr is basically equivalent to 165 AP pen, and on top of that 210 heat, which is like 195 AP. On a t8 tank that sees t10 tanks 90% of the time, while t8 heavies have 200+ effective weakspots these days :XD One could also argue the dpm is lolwut low given the dank 150 alpha, but i wouldnt really be too mad about that. If it had 200+ hp engine and 190/235 pen (all the t8 lights should be buffed to 180+ AP equivalent pen anyway, with 230+ premium ammo), then id consider it fairly nice t8 prem LT.

Edited by Dr_Oolen, 27 November 2017 - 06:56 PM.


suvicze #10 Posted 27 November 2017 - 07:04 PM

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Yeah sure but then I want bc12t buffed because this thing is pretty much better in most things except speed and engine health...

Give bc same dpm, improve aim time and soft stats and you can have that T92 engine health buffed...

In terms of penetration its stats are pretty much comparable to any other T8 light which are crap so they could use a buff as a whole package.



5_InchFl0ppy #11 Posted 27 November 2017 - 07:25 PM

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If you buy this tank you are basically flushing money down the toilet.

 

 

 

 


Edited by Tac_p0liticallyCorrect, 27 November 2017 - 07:28 PM.


Bucifel #12 Posted 27 November 2017 - 07:38 PM

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please NO

NO more buffs to that imbecile premium ammo ! whatever it is, on what tank or anything else

or atleast...NO WITHOUT SOME DISADVANTAGE !

:facepalm:


Edited by Bucifel, 27 November 2017 - 07:39 PM.


Cobra6 #13 Posted 27 November 2017 - 08:21 PM

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View Postsuvicze, on 27 November 2017 - 06:04 PM, said:

Yeah sure but then I want bc12t buffed because this thing is pretty much better in most things except speed and engine health...

Give bc same dpm, improve aim time and soft stats and you can have that T92 engine health buffed...

In terms of penetration its stats are pretty much comparable to any other T8 light which are crap so they could use a buff as a whole package.

 

Bc12t does need a DPM buff for sure, I am not going to argue with that. It needs between 1800 and 2000 DPM to be even remotely competitive.

 

However, that is besides the point of releasing a new tank with two fundamental problems to it that can still be fixed before it's release, especially the atrocious engine health.

 

==================

 

I've restructured my first post because the more I think about it, the more troublesome this atrocious engine health actually becomes.

 

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TankkiPoju #14 Posted 27 November 2017 - 08:24 PM

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The tank looks like WG decided to put a Pepe meme in the game.

Jumping_Turtle #15 Posted 27 November 2017 - 08:29 PM

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It was nice as a tier 7. Not going to buy it as a tier 8.

undutchable80 #16 Posted 27 November 2017 - 08:31 PM

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Very interested Since I started this game on US lights and could do with a LT trainer. Just saw a couple of YT video's and agree that the engine & penetration could use some love before release. Or just drop it down to T7 and it will be perfectly fine. #walletalmostopen

Balc0ra #17 Posted 27 November 2017 - 09:07 PM

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They are playing it on their main accounts. Not review accounts. So I suspect it far from final. If you might recall, QB tested the Swedish tier 6 premium on his main account... with a single fire gun with crap dpm.

 

So lets wait to panic about stats, until we know it's more final.



Steel_Patriot #18 Posted 27 November 2017 - 09:34 PM

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Teir 7 tank @ teir 8 and basically the same engine crap that the STRV  M42-57 had on release where every shot killed its engine or burned it .I like my lights but i dont know if it's worth it in the current mm. Heat pen is crap too (Type62 has 220mm pen heat @ teir 7 and won't see constant teir x)

Balc0ra #19 Posted 27 November 2017 - 09:48 PM

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View PostSteel_Patriot, on 27 November 2017 - 09:34 PM, said:

Teir 7 tank @ teir 8 and basically the same engine crap that the STRV  M42-57 had on release where every shot killed its engine or burned it .

 

Oh god, I hated that about that tank. It was worse then the old German tanks when the gearbox up front had a hitbox and caused engine failure and fire on 8 out 10 hits. Instant hit in the tracks in the Strv would take out the tracks and engine at the same time. Burning it half the time. UDES was just as bad when I did grind that.


Edited by Balc0ra, 27 November 2017 - 09:48 PM.


LeGod7 #20 Posted 27 November 2017 - 10:04 PM

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Yeh that is the problem really it was a tier 7 light and it's basically barely changed into tier 7, but all it's competitors got buffed to become tier 8s.

 

As QB shows, it is very slightly better than a T71, but is a tier higher. It looks cool and that gun handling is nice, but 150 alpha? 175 pen is too low and 210 HEAT at 5600 credits is stupid.

 

  • Buff standard pen to 190 (all tier 8 lights need this), make the HEAT 235 at least and drop the price to like 2800 credits. 
  • Buff the engine HP to 250 like most other lights. This is just an annoying feature that will piss off players and brings very little to the gameplay.
  • Either buff the DPM or just change it over to 170 alpha like the Bulldog on the main tree. (Give the Bulldog back it's DPM it had on test as well)





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