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Wargaming thinking about rebalancing Premium ammo? :D


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Poll: Ammunition rebalancing (82 members have cast votes)

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Is Ammunition rebalancing needed?

  1. Yes (55 votes [67.07%])

    Percentage of vote: 67.07%

  2. No (25 votes [30.49%])

    Percentage of vote: 30.49%

  3. No opinion (2 votes [2.44%])

    Percentage of vote: 2.44%

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Bambodos #1 Posted 27 November 2017 - 11:29 PM

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I just read this in an article of Harkonnen on The Daily Bounce website.

 

I quote:

"We’re currently thinking that we need to tackle the question of shell types globally, better understand how they are used."

 

Source: https://thedailyboun...ontributors-qa/

 

Does this mean wargaming is thinking about it? Still looks a bit vague, but it would be really sweet!

 

In my opinion the ammo is in a dire need of a rebalance as the premium round is just all-round better on any and every tank, making the game very Pay-to-win. 

 

What do you think? And keep it clean in the chat...

 

 

 



Homer_J #2 Posted 27 November 2017 - 11:39 PM

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View PostBambodos, on 27 November 2017 - 10:29 PM, said:

 

In my opinion the ammo is in a dire need of a rebalance as the premium round is just all-round better on any and every tank, making the game very Pay-to-win. 

 

 

 

So how much does a 58% recent win rate cost?

Havenless #3 Posted 27 November 2017 - 11:39 PM

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No, it's just a politically nice thing to say.

TheOddRogue #4 Posted 28 November 2017 - 01:24 AM

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i awnts mlaåp pahs monehys to spam golds anfd gerts u nicums 

Strappster #5 Posted 28 November 2017 - 03:35 AM

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I'm pretty sure they've said something similar every time the question has come up and nothing's changed so I won't be holding my breath.

 

View PostBambodos, on 27 November 2017 - 10:29 PM, said:

In my opinion the ammo is in a dire need of a rebalance as the premium round is just all-round better on any and every tank, making the game very Pay-to-win.

 

APCR has less normalisation and seems to bounce at long range more often when I'm firing it. HEAT throws a hissy fit if you don't hit your target's flat armour at close to 90°, anything else and it's a little more than a sound effect and a lot of credits. I think saying it's simply better is a gross simplification, if it's anything at all.

 

The only way premium ammo makes the game pay-to-win is if you don't fire anything but premium because you believe it's an all-round better shell and you have to fund that habit. Learning to aim is much cheaper.



vasilinhorulezz #6 Posted 28 November 2017 - 08:33 AM

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If you drive Maus and Type 5, you deserve all the goldspam you get, if you drive anything with zero ammo, why do you care 2hat type of ammo shot you?

Anyway, on a serious note, there are a lot of problems around premium ammo, first of all:

Premium tanks that share ammunition with tech tree tanks, how is the premium ammo gonna rebalaced there?

Removal of weakspots and accuracy nerf, are they gonna rebalance every tank again?

Corridor meta that will make superheavies even more dominant (seriously, how is a Kv 1 gonna fight a O-I).

Rebalancing is a tricky thing, and there are a lot of stuff to take account for, in order to make it work.

Also WG has proven in a lot of cases how bag they are at this.

 



250swb #7 Posted 28 November 2017 - 09:18 AM

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" Looking at Japanese Heavy tanks, and in particular, at the statistics, we don’t think they are crazy or overpowered, but we do know that they hurt skilled players the most, as they are easy to play for more inexperienced players. There is certainly an emotional weight to it, and we’re looking at it very carefully. We’re currently thinking that we need to tackle the question of shell types globally, better understand how they are used." - Q&A report byThe Daily Bounce

 

The OP is clutching at straws to imagine this one sentence at the end of a paragraph about Japanese heavy tanks means anything about premium ammo. The comment could just as easily mean nerfing tanks and not the ammo. And WG would still need to address the policy of not nerfing premium tanks by reducing their ammo performance, or pay out in a massive compensation plan.


Edited by 250swb, 28 November 2017 - 09:24 AM.


anonym_kL7qtn3e52MB #8 Posted 28 November 2017 - 10:17 AM

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We lissun gusy...

 

We lissuned about TOXIC playerers

We lissuned to your complaints about information concerning events etc.    (http://forum.worldof...n-russian-now/    *COUGH COUGH...)

We lissuned when you asked about compensation for putting the M6A2E1 back on sale

We lissuned, but we ignored (see my avatar)

We have been lissuning to the community since 2010...

 

:trollface:


Edited by Spek_en_Bonen, 28 November 2017 - 10:19 AM.


Geno1isme #9 Posted 28 November 2017 - 11:06 AM

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View PostBambodos, on 28 November 2017 - 12:29 AM, said:

In my opinion the ammo is in a dire need of a rebalance as the premium round is just all-round better on any and every tank, making the game very Pay-to-win.

 

There is a lot more than that to rebalance:

- Massive cost differences (in damage/credit) between shells (e.g. German 8,8 L71 vs. Russian D-54S or British 20pdr)

- Massive differences in premium ammo effectiveness (e.g. E100 HEAT vs. IS-7 APCR, or T-54 HEAT vs. Tiger APCR)

- Extreme penetration falloff of T10 Lights

- Small-caliber HE being mostly useless

(just to note a few)



ExclamationMark #10 Posted 28 November 2017 - 11:09 AM

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Gold doesn't need rebalancing. Tanks like the Maus and Ebola5 do. 

edit: silly me, forgot about the Badger too.


Edited by ExclamationMark, 28 November 2017 - 11:10 AM.


Noo_Noo #11 Posted 28 November 2017 - 11:16 AM

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I think they're coming at it from the wrong angle. 

 

Premium ammo isn't pay to win (the exception is the Type 5) and never really has been. Despite  what the whiners will tell you it premium ammo span might make the average player penetrate one extra shot per game. That number increases as the players skill level goes up. 

maybe they could look at the way different shell types behave and tweak a few things (normalisation etc. ) but at the end of the day I'd rather see a bit better tank balance before poking round with the ammo.

 

It's a bit like having all the windows open in the house but choosing to put the heating on because you're cold. Kind of better to close the windows first.



leggasiini #12 Posted 28 November 2017 - 11:24 AM

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I feel like what they are meaning is tweaking of ammo types, including HE shells, which would probably also indirectly rework the Japanese HTs.

japtank #13 Posted 28 November 2017 - 11:31 AM

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View PostNoo_Noo, on 28 November 2017 - 11:16 AM, said:

premium ammo span might make the average player penetrate one extra shot per game.

 

Spouting lies doesn't make a truth.

First, you have no figures to back your claim, second some tanks need premium even to penetrate the sides of some opponents.

And while it is true that a very skilled player can never touch the '2' key, even the most renowned streamers dab it as soon as they see fit.

They probably do it because you never had the opportunity to lecture them :)



HundeWurst #14 Posted 28 November 2017 - 11:33 AM

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When WG is thinking about something that can have the following meanings:

  • "Blablabla we care for the opinion of the players" while laughing and counting all them money they make.
  • Lets make a Sandbox setup which is way more terrible, screwed up and flat out worse than what we currently have. And be damn sure they can ALWAYS make it worse.
  • It is the year 2021. WoT is low on players. Suddenly everyone involved figures out that there were and are issues which drove players away. Some kind of mediocre rework is scheduled in a rush.

 

View PostStrappster, on 28 November 2017 - 03:35 AM, said:

APCR has less normalisation and seems to bounce at long range more often when I'm firing it. HEAT throws a hissy fit if you don't hit your target's flat armour at close to 90°, anything else and it's a little more than a sound effect and a lot of credits. I think saying it's simply better is a gross simplification, if it's anything at all.

 

The only way premium ammo makes the game pay-to-win is if you don't fire anything but premium because you believe it's an all-round better shell and you have to fund that habit. Learning to aim is much cheaper.

 

APCR is flat out superior to AP. The normalisation is pointless since the base penetration is so much higher, also even on tier 10 there is A LOT of flat armor (sub 60 degree angle). Any tank with APCR is standard using premium only will make the tank much better. The only drawback is the credit drain, hence most players cannot do it.

 

Also HEAT is also often flat out better. Yes its more situational and you should not go full HEAT more or less due to the bad shell speed. But in 90% of all cases HEAT is better than AP as well.

 

Premium ammo is not balanced and a clear pay2win aspect. Its bad for the balancing. However it would also be A LOT of work to rebalance it. Meaning: With the premium ammo rebalance armor would need to be adjusted and hitpoints as well. Lots of work which would make the game better but would hurt WGs revenue hence it will never come.

 

PS: The only reason why this issues did not yet get adressed is their greed. Premium ammo makes them a lot of money. If changed it would have the potential to make the game a lot better. Yes its hell of a lot of work. But it would make the gameplay MUCH better. Would it be more work than HD maps? I doubt it. Would it have a way more positive impact than HD maps!? Most likely.

Well we dont know what kind of an impact HD maps are going to have. But from what I have seen and played the gameplay got a lot worse on HD maps. So yeah. WG your move.


Edited by WunderWurst, 28 November 2017 - 11:40 AM.


Draz_H #15 Posted 28 November 2017 - 11:33 AM

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View Postjaptank, on 28 November 2017 - 10:31 AM, said:

 

Spouting lies doesn't make a truth.

First, you have no figures to back your claim, second some tanks need premium even to penetrate the sides of some opponents.

And while it is true that a very skilled player can never touch the '2' key, even the most renowned streamers dab it as soon as they see fit.

They probably do it because you never had the opportunity to lecture them :)

 

Don't forget you obtain the moral highground if you don't play with premium ammo!

Noo_Noo #16 Posted 28 November 2017 - 11:45 AM

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View Postjaptank, on 28 November 2017 - 11:31 AM, said:

 

Spouting lies doesn't make a truth.

First, you have no figures to back your claim, second some tanks need premium even to penetrate the sides of some opponents.

And while it is true that a very skilled player can never touch the '2' key, even the most renowned streamers dab it as soon as they see fit.

They probably do it because you never had the opportunity to lecture them :)

 

No I dont have  figures but having done it myself it was roughly 1 extra round of damage (playing the T54). Sometimes it was more, sometimes it made jack sh** difference.

And in response to your further thoughts I never said good players dont use premium ammo. I was trying to say that if they go full premium ammo they would benefit more from it. Why?? because their in game awareness and positioning is far superior to the average donkey. That means they get more shots off during a game and  the premium ammo reduces the RNG associated with penetration rolls and whatever you want to call the thing that effects accuracy. 


So actually I haven't spouted any lies, I have expressed an opinion. Feel free to object or even debate that opinion but dont for one second call me a liar. Ignorant *******


Edited by Noo_Noo, 28 November 2017 - 11:48 AM.


HundeWurst #17 Posted 28 November 2017 - 11:46 AM

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View PostDraz_H, on 28 November 2017 - 11:33 AM, said:

 

Don't forget you obtain the moral highground if you don't play with premium ammo!

 

And what can I buy with the moral highground? Hookers and booze? Im not certain. :P

Noo_Noo #18 Posted 28 November 2017 - 11:50 AM

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View PostWunderWurst, on 28 November 2017 - 11:46 AM, said:

 

And what can I buy with the moral highground? Hookers and booze? Im not certain. :P

 

A warm fuzzy feeling inside from being a super hard nut on the Internet.

LeGod7 #19 Posted 28 November 2017 - 11:51 AM

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I thought the comment was in relation to HE particularly on Jap Heavies, because it is basically a big f8ck you to skilled heavy tank play and makes brawling Jap heavies annoying. 

ZlatanArKung #20 Posted 28 November 2017 - 12:24 PM

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Premium ammo combined with armour values needs a huge remake. But it will never happen.

But it is still worth complaining about imo.




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