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Premium shells are killing the game


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nemke1706 #1 Posted 29 November 2017 - 05:35 AM

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Hi guys!

After a lot of analysis I came to conclusion that premium shells are doing more harm to the game than good. Let's start:

 

The point of this topic is that armor has essentially became useless. That largely affects tanks and TDs that rely on armor, and sacrifice mobility for it (there are a lot of tanks like that)). Such tanks should be able to hold positions or slowly push, thus forcing the enemy to respond with different tactics.

Earlier that kind of play was possible, because premium shells weren't available for credits, so not many people used them. But now, every kind of novice can easily destroy a skilled player in a heavy tank by simply hitting the 2 key. That way, the best way to stay alive is Avoid getting hit = Mobility = Light and Medium tanks  or some of the fast heavys.

With the standard shells you can still penetrate but it does take a bit of skill and knowledge of the smaller weakspots (not just the lower plate which is sometimes very thick but premium shells still go through)

 

I have 2 ideas that can still keep premium shells alive, but limit their superiority (I dont think that their removal is likely to happen) :

 

#1 Like on SU-100Y, have the premium shell do more damage, but to have less penetration. That way it will reward flanking manouvers against heavily armored tanks but still keep their fronts usefull.

 

#2 Let the premium shells have bonus penetration only on stock and middle guns on each tank, but in the way that penetration does not exceed the standard penetration on the top gun. (And apply #1 on top guns)

 

What do you guys think about it? Would you like to see premium shells changed, removed or to stay as they are?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 


Edited by nemke1706, 29 November 2017 - 05:50 AM.


xx984 #2 Posted 29 November 2017 - 05:59 AM

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View Postnemke1706, on 29 November 2017 - 04:35 AM, said:

Hi guys!

After a lot of analysis I came to conclusion that premium shells are doing more harm to the game than good. Let's start:

 

Oh wow! I never knew that! Please share with us your infinite wisdom!

 

Not to come across as a d1ck, although that may already be too late, :hiding:

we don't need any more gold/prem shell threads, There is enough as it is. We all know its a problem at this point.

 

Although i must give you props, this actually is a semi-constructive thread, Unlike most of the prem shell threads which seem to be "Hurr hurr golds 4 noooobs remov ples WG thenx" and thats all, But please use the search, and post it in one of the many existing threads, or even post it in one of the feedback threads provide by the WG Staff in one of the various sections on the forum. Don't be surprised if this eventually gets locked by one of the moderators as there is loads of these threads already existing.



Jethro_Grey #3 Posted 29 November 2017 - 09:35 AM

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...and here i thought, premium shells kill tanks and provide a means to damage tanks that can`t be penned frontally on corridory maps.

The current implementation may not be the best, but it works at least.



Ze_HOFF_fverhoef #4 Posted 29 November 2017 - 09:50 AM

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xx984 has a point or 2 there.... (or how many premium ammo thread are??)

 

 

And yes, would be nice if premium shells would have some more drawbacks, meaning that picking the right shell for the job would be more important.

Instead of the current, if not sure to penetrate, better switch to premium.



pelaminoskep #5 Posted 29 November 2017 - 09:51 AM

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Never seen a thread like this...

 

But as we're being constructive, here goes: I think the difference between normal rounds and premium rounds is just way too big. In a T-54 the result is about 30% in penetration. 30%!!!

 

The difference should be about 5%. It's still an advantage worth to pay for, but it is not required. 



Jethro_Grey #6 Posted 29 November 2017 - 09:57 AM

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View Postpelaminoskep, on 29 November 2017 - 09:51 AM, said:

Never seen a thread like this...

 

But as we're being constructive, here goes: I think the difference between normal rounds and premium rounds is just way too big. In a T-54 the result is about 30% in penetration. 30%!!!

 

The difference should be about 5%. It's still an advantage worth to pay for, but it is not required. 

 

This would require an increase of the base pen of standard shells be viable.

pelaminoskep #7 Posted 29 November 2017 - 10:03 AM

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View PostJethro_Grey, on 29 November 2017 - 09:57 AM, said:

 

This would require an increase of the base pen of standard shells be viable.

 

If this is true, then there is something wrong with AP to begin with.

Jethro_Grey #8 Posted 29 November 2017 - 10:13 AM

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View Postpelaminoskep, on 29 November 2017 - 10:03 AM, said:

 

If this is true, then there is something wrong with AP to begin with.

 

Thats why i said that the current implementation is not the best one, but at least it works. 

 

The entire penetration, standard and premium shell system needs a complete overhaul. 

But it has to be done carefully to avoid making things worse than they are now. 

What also factors in, are the maps as they can influence ammo selection as well, as it is more likely for me to load premium ammo and shoot the front on a corridor map.

 

It|s a complicated system that needs a careful approach and WG better not make it half arsed.

 



pelaminoskep #9 Posted 29 November 2017 - 10:37 AM

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I really think a difference of 5-7% would make it a min-maxing thing rather than required in lots of situations.

uglycousin #10 Posted 29 November 2017 - 10:54 AM

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View Postxx984, on 29 November 2017 - 06:59 AM, said:

Not to come across as a d1ck, although that may already be too late, :hiding:

 

 

 

:P

 

Definition of d1ck

 
2
[by shortening & alteration]
2detective
  • Sam Spade not only became the model for later d1cks but also provided Hollywood with the classic private-eye film.
  •  —Charles Nicol

 


Edited by uglycousin, 29 November 2017 - 10:54 AM.


iztok #11 Posted 29 November 2017 - 11:05 AM

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> premium shells are killing the game

Ugh? :confused: Haven't noticed.

Signed: Scorpion G

 

;)



pelaminoskep #12 Posted 29 November 2017 - 11:27 AM

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View Postiztok, on 29 November 2017 - 11:05 AM, said:

> premium shells are killing the game

Ugh? :confused: Haven't noticed.

Signed: Scorpion G

 

;)

 

Hahaha

Jigabachi #13 Posted 29 November 2017 - 11:34 AM

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Good job with your analysis, but you are five years too late.
It's an old and well known problem. But it's not only premammo alone. It's premammo and the broken gamebalance as a whole that does kill the game, as for some tanks you are even forced to use premammo - or you have to retreat.

But the good new is: It will never change, because it earns WG money. Yay!

LeGod7 #14 Posted 29 November 2017 - 11:34 AM

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View Postnemke1706, on 29 November 2017 - 05:35 AM, said:

 

After a lot of analysis .......

 

that armor has essentially became useless. 

 

 

Your analysis is crap and inherently wrong.

 

Currently the best performing tanks in the game = have armour. (Maus, Type 5, all Jap heavies, Defender, IS3, Vk 1001 P, Obj. 907 etc.) 

Weakest tanks in the game = have no armour. (Leopard 1, lights at higher tiers, most mediums at higher tier etc.)

 

We are in an armour meta, armour wins games and premium ammo is all that is stopping the majority of games just being 90% Heavy tanks and armoured TDs.

 

Without premium ammo the game would be horribly balanced right now.

 

 



Aikl #15 Posted 29 November 2017 - 11:42 AM

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We really need a premium ammo sticky at some point.

 

I don't really care much, except that the lack of weakspots encourages premium ammo use a lot.



K_A #16 Posted 29 November 2017 - 11:51 AM

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View PostAikl, on 29 November 2017 - 10:42 AM, said:

I don't really care much, except that the lack of weakspots encourages premium ammo use a lot.

 

This. I don't particularly like shelling out the cash for premium ammo, especially now that I don't have premium account on all the time, but there are a lot of situations where you simply don't have a choice if you want to have a chance to win, a lot more often than some years ago.



ramram70 #17 Posted 29 November 2017 - 12:36 PM

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View PostLeGod7, on 29 November 2017 - 12:34 PM, said:

 

Your analysis is crap and inherently wrong.

 

Currently the best performing tanks in the game = have armour. (Maus, Type 5, all Jap heavies, Defender, IS3, Vk 1001 P, Obj. 907 etc.) 

Weakest tanks in the game = have no armour. (Leopard 1, lights at higher tiers, most mediums at higher tier etc.)

 

We are in an armour meta, armour wins games and premium ammo is all that is stopping the majority of games just being 90% Heavy tanks and armoured TDs.

 

Without premium ammo the game would be horribly balanced right now.

 

 

 

How would you know? You've played only like 600 games in three years.

 

Ontopic; Where did you get that info of currently best performing tanks? I've been looking for that info (performance after the current MM was implemented). Particulary I'm interested in IS-3 which totally sucks nowadays. It was a great tank until the current MM. Now it's nothing more than a gold magnet and without prem ammo it can't reliably pen those T10s it's against to almost all the time (yes, I'm a bit short of credits my self).

 

Limit the prem ammo, let's say to five rounds per battle (autofuc...autoloaders one clip), it will stop the spamming.

 

 



lgorek #18 Posted 29 November 2017 - 01:18 PM

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Have the same opinion GOLD ammo kill good play of this game. I play Type 4 Heavy  and see how many golf ammo hit me. I move from hill or building and first normal ammo bouce and next full gold ammo and next what is hapend 4-5 with penetration later and im in garage. 

Ze_HOFF_fverhoef #19 Posted 29 November 2017 - 01:24 PM

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View Postlgorek, on 29 November 2017 - 12:18 PM, said:

Have the same opinion GOLD ammo kill good play of this game. I play Type 4 Heavy  and see how many golf ammo hit me. I move from hill or building and first normal ammo bouce and next full gold ammo and next what is hapend 4-5 with penetration later and im in garage. 

 

The lesson should have been: Don't drive into the open, if you know multiple tanks can shoot at you. 

Driving super heavies doesn't mean stop thinking altogether. (though it comes close to that)



LR130 #20 Posted 29 November 2017 - 01:28 PM

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View Postlgorek, on 29 November 2017 - 01:18 PM, said:

Have the same opinion GOLD ammo kill good play of this game. I play Type 4 Heavy  and see how many golf ammo hit me. I move from hill or building and first normal ammo bouce and next full gold ammo and next what is hapend 4-5 with penetration later and im in garage. 

 

Good.

 

On a more serious note; If you drive around ingame in a typer 4 or 5 what do you expect???? The armor is just retarded. Japanese heavy=gold spam... unless i see it´s side or rear.






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