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QB, you missed the ball on this one.


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brumbarr #1 Posted 30 November 2017 - 08:23 PM

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Jut watched QBs video on the march of nations event:

 

https://www.youtube....kjRUkf1C0s&t=0s

 

And while people think QB is normalyl nto very critical of WG, I think he  was overly critical here and missed the ball on the actuall issue.  He  made some very  stupid points and  completely exaggeratd the issue.

 

Lets take  a look at what tanks are in the top of MoN:

Tier10:

Germany: Maus, E50M

USA: M48 patton

UK: S Conq

Japan: Type5

Sweden  50/50 strv103b and kranvagn

USSR: obj907

france: everything

China: 5A/114

Czech: TVP ( duh)

 

Tier9:

Germany: E50

USA: M46 patton

UK, mainly conq, some cent7/1 and tortoise

Japan: type4

Sweden: Emil 2

Ussr: T54/430 v2/T10

france: amx30

china: WZ1114

czech: skoda 

 

Tier8:

Germany: skorpionG/M41 GF/Lowe + 1 person who did all battles in kanonenjagdpanzer and one in only vk1001p

USA: patriot

UK: caernarvon

Japan: OHO

Sweden: Prima victoria/emil 1

USSR: defender/kv5/IS6/T44100/T54mod1

France: amxcda/cdc/lorr40t/M4A1 rev/BC12t

CHina: WZ120/type59

Czech: tvp vtu

 

tier7:

Germany: E25

USA: T71DA, T29

UK: comet/at7/black prince

Japan: O NI

Sweden: Leo

USSR: eveything

france: amx 13 57

China: type62/WZ131
Czech: T34100

 

So there are the facts.

First off, the ranking isnt dominated by prems, only 8 out of 32 rankins have lots of prems in them. So plenty of opportunity for non prem tank users to get on the ranking. Well, you might still say thats a lot, alright, but in which rankings didnt the standard tanks have a chance? Which contain OP prem tanks? Only  in 4 rankings where OP prems dominating ( 907, E25, 13 57, patriot). In all other rankins the prem tanks where either not OP or the so called OP tanks where jsut as easily beaten by normal tanks.

 

So in 1/8th of the rankings f2p people didnt have a chance.

 

You might still ask wy so many prems i nthe rankings?  Simple several reasons:, the highest places are usualy the best players, do you really think they are going to keep standard tanks at tier8 or 7? No they wont, the only  tanks they have here are premiums, so naturaly there are more prems on the leaderboard.   Also, people play prems because they can make credits while competing, thats why you see T44100s and not T44s, because why not make some credits on the way?

So the ammoutn of prems i nthe rankings has nothign to do with them being OP  and certainly doesnt indicate that f2p players dont stand a chance.

 

You can also see that it doesnt matter what tanks where played, good players will win anyway,  there are kanonenjagdpanzers in the ranking ffs! and IS6s, KV5, cdc!! those arent OP tank,those are UP as [edited].  The good players jsut choose the best tank they have avaible, but they would still do as good if they picked the obj140 instead of the 907.

 

QBs point of banning all prems is therefore stupid, first of you exclude a lot of players whos only tank at those tiers are prem tanks.  Second  you exclude 95% of prem tanks that arent OP jsut because of 5 tanks that are. 

 

So you might say, lets only exclude OP tanks, alright, so where the hell do you draw the line? Is the E25 OP? no it isnt , its situational, so d oyou exclude that? Defender might seem very OP but what about the amx M4 49? Is that OP?  And if that one is OP, then why isnt the  lorr 40T excluded? or the  M4A1? That one is almost as good as the lorr. So wher do you draw the line.

 

And then again, if OP prems ave to be excluded, why are OP standard tanks allowed, they dominate the rankins way more than the prems, how is that fair? Do they have to be excluded aswell? Makes no sense.

 

The point is that the issue isnt allowing prems, its the lack of balance in this game, thats what needs fixing, not the contest. Either that, or you do rankings per tank, thats the only fair way to do it. Excluding prems wont solve anything and will exlclude more people than if they wher allowed in.

 

 

 



UrQuan #2 Posted 30 November 2017 - 08:36 PM

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You are making some good points here.

 

One thing regarding situational tanks. I feel that in this years version of MoN, they were better suited for the top-spots, because those tanks landing in a map/setup that plays to their specialisation can rack up some monstergames (5 games in a row like last year would hamper them, but just 5 topgames, helps them). However, this is far from a prem tank issue, more a tank issue not limited to prems.

 

All in all, this year's event was nice imo, albeit it did showcase how strong some tanks are. I was just not good enough for the T8 ranking (tried with KV-4, but couldn't play enough before frustration of T8 MM hit me) but got in at TX ranking with Maus easy (3rd class mind you, I'm no awesome player), which had more to do with the tank I used rather then my own skil imo.

 

And yes, good players will dominate those rankings, no matter what they use. Because they are good players, they know how to get the best out even bad setups & tanks. Still I'm mighty impressed by the CDC getting in there, not an easy feat. KV-5 & IS-6 I actually expected to see, as they are still very strong tanks when played well. They are just not that good against heavily armored tanks.

I still play my KV-5 from time to time in this MM & maintain my sexy 69% WR in it, that's not a sign of an UP tank to me.


Edited by UrQuan, 30 November 2017 - 08:36 PM.


etody77 #3 Posted 30 November 2017 - 08:37 PM

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Just 8 of 36 categories full of premium tanks because the other have no suitable premium tank. Think about E-25, it will never fight against tier 9, and a tiger have more chances to fight against tier 9 than against tier 5-6. This was the point ofthat video. In almost every video QB is more than friendly about WG, now he has right. It's not fair play to fight against a tank thatyou cannot buy, and it's better than the same tiertanks ingame

Tiger_Panzermeyer #4 Posted 30 November 2017 - 08:37 PM

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''QB is normalyl nto very critical of WG''

That's a massive understatement i stopped listening to Quickyshill a while ago,couldn't stand his shilling anymore,if you wanna get a objective opinion listen to Sir Circon or Sir Foch.



TungstenHitman #5 Posted 30 November 2017 - 08:42 PM

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Nah, I agree with the streamer he makes good points, especially how the premium time rewards are being dominated by players that most likely ALREADY have premium accounts that you'd think would logically accompany the the premium and clan reward tanks by players that look like their from top clans that would pretty much insist on such levels of committment to the game and clan.

    Also, I think it would have been only good taste and sensible to gift some sort of token reward to EVERYONE who participated, it's good for business and makes your customers feel good. Add to that the limitation of the competition to tier7 and higher. I found this a bit condasending to newer players and feeling like it's basically rewarding those who pay to win and have played this game the longest, totally dismissing and rudely excluding new and lower tier players from the event.. it was basically a big go **** yourself to noobs. From a fairness and business perspective, with hopefully attracting new players to keep playing, stimulating casual players to get more involved in this game, that was NOT a smart move 



_EXODUZ_ #6 Posted 30 November 2017 - 08:43 PM

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He did it on purpose knowing what his audience wants to hear.

brumbarr #7 Posted 30 November 2017 - 08:43 PM

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View Postetody77, on 30 November 2017 - 08:37 PM, said:

Just 8 of 36 categories full of premium tanks because the other have no suitable premium tank. Think about E-25, it will never fight against tier 9, and a tiger have more chances to fight against tier 9 than against tier 5-6. This was the point ofthat video. In almost every video QB is more than friendly about WG, now he has right. It's not fair play to fight against a tank thatyou cannot buy, and it's better than the same tiertanks ingame

 

But  there 28 ranks where it doesn matter if you have a prem or not. So the issue is minimal, and the solution he proposes is stupid. And he totaly exagerated the issue. THe issue is ther but its small. Not a big deal.

 

Not to mention the fat that looking at top10 is irrelevant, only top1000 matters, and there  it doesnt matter what tank you drive.



NUKLEAR_SLUG #8 Posted 30 November 2017 - 08:44 PM

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View Postbrumbarr, on 30 November 2017 - 08:23 PM, said:

Also, people play prems because they can make credits while competing, thats why you see T44100s and not T44s, because why not make some credits on the way?

So the ammoutn of prems i nthe rankings has nothign to do with them being OP  and certainly doesnt indicate that f2p players dont stand a chance.

 

 

Agreed. For me and I'm sure many others it was a good opportunity to combine grinding some credits with boosting some crews and getting rank on the MoN board all at the same time. Why would you not do it that way?

dimethylcadmium #9 Posted 30 November 2017 - 08:45 PM

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Crap thread, good players in OP prems made it impossible for good players WITHOUT OP prems to progress up the leaderboard.

 

How can someone collect more XP in a rhm borsig when there are people playing Skorpion G, which has the same firepower, more accuracy, and 2x the mobility? And don't give me the camo factor BS, good players double bush and dont get spotted in Skorpion and many of them ********* use illegal mods like Tundra, go to a mod website and look how many downloads per mod there are, tens of thousands

 

Same goes for 1357 GF, much better than 13 75, type 62 and m 41 90 GF are also OP because no nerfs when lights were changed.

 

also the "players dont have standard tier 8 tanks so they play premiums" is ONE BIG BS, simply not true, if that were true than Tier 8 as a tier would be underpopulated and it's the most popular tier in the whole game.

 


Edited by dimethylcadmium, 30 November 2017 - 08:47 PM.


brumbarr #10 Posted 30 November 2017 - 08:48 PM

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View PostTungstenHitman, on 30 November 2017 - 08:42 PM, said:

Nah, I agree with the streamer he makes good points, especially how the premium time rewards are being dominated by players that most likely ALREADY have premium accounts that you'd think would logically accompany the the premium and clan reward tanks by players that look like their from top clans that would pretty much insist on such levels of committment to the game and clan.

 

Pls show me 1 good point he made and quote what he said.

    Also, I think it would have been only good taste and sensible to gift some sort of token reward to EVERYONE who participated, it's good for business and makes your customers feel good.

Sure, whatever, lets give more participation rewards because everyone is special!

Add to that the limitation of the competition to tier7 and higher. I found this a bit condasending to newer players and feeling like it's basically rewarding those who pay to win and have played this game the longest, totally dismissing and rudely excluding new and lower tier players from the event.. it was basically a big go **** yourself to noobs. From a fairness and business perspective, with hopefully attracting new players to keep playing, stimulating casual players to get more involved in this game, that was NOT a smart move 

Lower tiers are one of the most unbalanced tiers in the game, OP tanks would dominate more and it would encourage sealclubbing. Not a great plan.

 



AngelofAwe #11 Posted 30 November 2017 - 08:51 PM

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Who cares if the video is wrong when there's 2:13? 
 

Strappster #12 Posted 30 November 2017 - 08:53 PM

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View Postdimethylcadmium, on 30 November 2017 - 07:45 PM, said:

... and many of them ********* use illegal mods like Tundra, go to a mod website and look how many downloads per mod there are, tens of thousands

 

Because the makers of an illegal cheat mod would certainly tell the truth about the number of downloads. If there's one group you can trust explicitly, it's the guys who make cheats.

 

:facepalm:



ogremage #13 Posted 30 November 2017 - 08:53 PM

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I felt a similar way about QB's video and agree with your points.

 

I agree Defender, AMX 13 57 and Obj 907 are basically OP. But many of the other premiums got played as it's more useful to grind credits + play MoN event than just play MoN event.

 

For China t8 I had both Type 59 and WZ-132 I could play and I liked them both and actually felt WZ-132 as a scout has better chances to get good XP, but I mostly played Type 59 to also earn credits.



brumbarr #14 Posted 30 November 2017 - 08:54 PM

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View Postdimethylcadmium, on 30 November 2017 - 08:45 PM, said:

Crap thread, good players in OP prems made it impossible for good players WITHOUT OP prems to progress up the leaderboard.

No they did not, good players would be on top without those prems anyway. Not to mention the rankin went to 4000, those places are not all fileld with prems.

 

How can someone collect more XP in a rhm borsig when there are people playing Skorpion G, which has the same firepower, more accuracy, and 2x the mobility? And don't give me the camo factor BS, good players double bush and dont get spotted in Skorpion and many of them ********* use illegal mods like Tundra, go to a mod website and look how many downloads per mod there are, tens of thousands

 Ask the lowe drivers, or kanonenjagpanzeer drivers that outperformed hundres of skorpion drivers.

 

Same goes for 1357 GF, much better than 13 75, type 62 and m 41 90 GF are also OP because no nerfs when lights were changed.

 

also the "players dont have standard tier 8 tanks so they play premiums" is ONE BIG BS, simply not true, if that were true than Tier 8 as a tier would be underpopulated and it's the most popular tier in the whole game.

This is true,  the players that participate here most likely have less tier8s,  and its for sure true when you look at the top10, none of those players keep there tanks after grinding and they grind those tanks in days.

 

Also the reason T8 is the most popular tier is because its filled with fuckign premium tanks!

 


Edited by brumbarr, 30 November 2017 - 08:55 PM.


speedphlux #15 Posted 30 November 2017 - 08:57 PM

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Timing gents ! With the upcoming discounts and having to buy a Deathstar tomorrow, do you think that when playing anything that is not Tier 10 or 9, I would be driving anything but Premium vehicles ? Nope ! My highest score was 300th and something at Tier 9 with the Brittish, because I was playing the Tortoise a lot. Something like 200 battles I think. In the breaks, when I died early and went back to garage, I just jumped in my Premium tanks, to make up some credits. So yeah - T-44-100, T25 Pilot, FV4202, Type 62, SU-122-44, Lorraine 40t, AMX CDC and so on. Wasn't even trying for this competition, which is visible by me not making any Tier 10 ladderboard places, despite enjoying few games here and there, when I simply wanted to be "top tier" for a change.

Do you seriously think that if a Premium/Reward tanks were forbidden from this competition, that some bob with 800 WN8, would be able to get in the Top 10 of Tier 10 Soviet tanks ? I don't have that tank as an example, but I'm fairly confident that if I had put my mind into getting in there, I would've made it. This competition only required you to have 5 exceptional games. Usually when I play around 20 games a day, without any stress of grinding stuff or making credits, I pick up at least two games that are above 1,3k base XP in my Tier 10s. So in 2-3 days, we're talking about 6,5k base XP score at the least. And from there on, is just a simple push to try and improve your scores bit by bit. And all it takes is one of those rare games where the stars align and hop - you improve your score by at least another 300 base XP points. Or 500 base XP, if you're lucky. I wasn't surprised to see stuff like leading person with 7,8k base XP total score. Wasn't surprised to see people with over 2k base XP single games at lower tiers. Just as much as any competition, this one was about putting in the effort. I couldn't and that's why I only got 2x Top 1k spots - Tier 9 Brittish and Tier 8 Soviet (T-44-100 clearly OP).

TungstenHitman #16 Posted 30 November 2017 - 08:59 PM

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View Postbrumbarr, on 30 November 2017 - 07:48 PM, said:

 

 

Well they gave out a T-34 85M to pretty much anyone that can mash the keyboard with their face for a few days so ya, it wouldn't have killed them to reward everyone who participated with a little something, even some shitty logo or a 1hr 50% XP. It isn't costing them anything and would have made everyone that participated actually bother with any future events of like. As it is now, I'm sure many players that participated but didn't get anything due to skill or simply not enough time to find 5 1300 base XP wins, will probably say **** off to any future events of same, not believe they will get anything so won't bother trying. I'm sure behind WG true purpose for this event (making money) having players (customers) left feeling like they shouldn't bother participating in future events, is very much not what WGs marketing strategists had intended.

 

Yes, lower tiers are massively unbalanced compared to very balanced tier8 and gold spamming mofos if 9 and 10 



dimethylcadmium #17 Posted 30 November 2017 - 09:03 PM

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No they did not, good players would be on top without those prems anyway. Not to mention the rankin went to 4000, those places are not all fileld with prems. "

 

Then why are in USSR 8 of 10 best players in 907? How come other mega uber mega unicums didn't get more XP in some other tanks? 

Why didn't you, or anyone from your ultra mega world superstar clan beat those 907 noobs in Top 10 with your 140's or IS-7s? why didn't those 8 top 10 players play object 140? why did they play 907 ?

 

" Ask the lowe drivers, or kanonenjagpanzeer drivers that outperformed hundres of skorpion drivers. "

 
Lowe is a very good HT, it can do better than Skorpion in many maps because of corridors and armor. Where is Tiger II?\
KanJPZ is a rare tank, not many people have it, i would be surprised if more than 100 people played KanJPZ in march of nations
 

"This is true,  the players that participate here most likely have less tier8s,  and its for sure true when you look at the top10, none of those players keep there tanks after grinding and they grind those tanks in days.

 

Also the reason T8 is the most popular tier is because its filled with fuckign premium tanks!"

 

Looking at top 10 is not enough, look at top 250 and you will see many have tier 8 standard tanks yet choose to play premiums because they are better.

 
T8 is the most popular because its also the 1st high tier where you feel power in tanks, without having to play expensive tier 9 and 10 tanks.

Edited by dimethylcadmium, 30 November 2017 - 09:05 PM.


brumbarr #18 Posted 30 November 2017 - 09:04 PM

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View PostTungstenHitman, on 30 November 2017 - 08:59 PM, said:

 

Well they gave out a T-34 85M to pretty much anyone that can mash the keyboard with their face for a few days so ya, it wouldn't have killed them to reward everyone who participated with a little something, even some shitty logo or a 1hr 50% XP. It isn't costing them anything and would have made everyone that participated actually bother with any future events of like. As it is now, I'm sure many players that participated but didn't get anything due to skill or simply not enough time to find 5 1300 base XP wins, will probably say **** off to any future events of same, not believe they will get anything so won't bother trying. I'm sure behind WG true purpose for this event (making money) having players (customers) left feeling like they shouldn't bother participating in future events, is very much not what WGs marketing strategists had intended.

 

Yes, lower tiers are massively unbalanced compared to very balanced tier8 and gold spamming mofos if 9 and 10 

 

Sure, I dont have a problem with givign all participants a badge.

 

Tier8 might be unbalanced yes. But tie9 is like the most balanced tier in the game. And tier10 really isnt that bad.  And gold spam, so what? Encouraging gold spam in low tiers where noobs are playing is even worse, and there goldspam matters even more.



dimethylcadmium #19 Posted 30 November 2017 - 09:08 PM

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View Postbrumbarr, on 30 November 2017 - 09:04 PM, said:

 

Sure, I dont have a problem with givign all participants a badge.

 

Tier8 might be unbalanced yes. But tie9 is like the most balanced tier in the game. And tier10 really isnt that bad.  And gold spam, so what? Encouraging gold spam in low tiers where noobs are playing is even worse, and there goldspam matters even more.

 

Tier 10 is easy mode in Tier 8 games for good players, and guess what? Good players play Tier 10 because they can seal club Tier 8s. Tier 8 should only see Tier 9, even 3 Tier 10 in Tier 8 battle is enough to rape all tier 8 tanks. Old MM was better for Tier 8

AngelofAwe #20 Posted 30 November 2017 - 09:09 PM

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View Postdimethylcadmium, on 30 November 2017 - 09:45 PM, said:

also the "players dont have standard tier 8 tanks so they play premiums" is ONE BIG BS, simply not true, if that were true than Tier 8 as a tier would be underpopulated and it's the most popular tier in the whole game.


Brave of you to post from an alt.

Here's a screenshot of EVERY tank I own at T8 and below. (L-60 didn't fit into the picture so +1)
How many non-premiums do you see?

 

Spoiler

 






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