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Panther, the pretty good "on paper" tank but horrible in action

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komunistu33 #1 Posted 04 December 2017 - 02:46 AM

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I've just unlocked the tier 7 German medium tank, the mighty Panther. I've used my Pz. IV H crew and I have BiA, SA, Snapshot, and the other skill for firing on the move. For equipment I use Rammer, GLD and Vents, I recently got Vents instead of Optics/Binocs because.. I'll explain in a bit. 

 

The tank seems great on paper, a very good sniper, the gun seems godlike. I've managed to get my accuracy down to 0.29, the aim time down to around 2.19(I believe), so it should be pretty accurate but I've played it almost 50 battles and it seems worse than a tier 6 MT gun. In spite of my crew skills and equipment the gun seems to miss like crazy. It can't snapshot at all. For instance I had a game on mines (north spawn), I went to intercept the LTs that were climbing on the hill, I pre aimed and shot, 3 misses, THREE misses in a row. It is a derpy gun even though it is not advertised as such. I lost a game today, I was closing in on our cap, there were 2 seconds left on the the clock and I aimed at a Tiger 2s side armor from ~100m away, I aimed 90% in and shot (APCR) at his side and bounced, didn't even get the tracks, bounced and lost.

 

Even though it is advertised as the highest pen gun on any tier 7 MT it bounces way too much on things it shouldn't bounce. ~200mm of pen should have no problem in dealing with t7 HTs and t8 MT but it does. 

 

Playing this tank aggressively resulted in the enemy snap shotting me from afar (440m+) while I couldn't hit them with my "superior" gun. Playing this tank passively/camping meant my team (which is by default made of 3 top tier sh****rs 42%, 46% and 48%, 5 mid tiers which can't tell their [edited]from their face and 7 cannon fodder tanks, me included) would lose badly. 

 

How is this tank meant to be played? I can't brawl in top tier since I have a pew pew gun, I can't snipe because that feels useless. Whatever I do I seem to lose badly, it might be bad luck but still, this tank seems lacking 

 

 



Strappster #2 Posted 04 December 2017 - 03:08 AM

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View Postkomunistu33, on 04 December 2017 - 01:46 AM, said:

... the aim time down to around 2.19(I believe) ...

 

That's not great considering the base aim time is 2.21s. With vents and BiA you should see 2.11, which is the same whether you're playing it with the stock L/70 gun or the top L/100.

 

First thing I'd do is drop the GLD and fit optics. You need to maximise your DPM and that includes spotting targets. The Panther is the size of a house so don't think you're a sneaky flanker, you're a second-line support tank with a pew-pew gun so make the most of it. A GLD is useful in theory but does nothing for you unless you're stationary and not moving the turret. The Panther can't fit vstabs but with vents and BiA you shouldn't need them.

 

You've seen what happens when you play aggressively, the armour is there for lucky bounces and that's about it. Treat it like an auto-loader with a long time between shells - track your targets when you can and then keep at them until they explode or you're forced to pull back to cover. You've got a good health pool for a tier 7 medium, you can always spend a few hp to pew-pew some more.

 

You can be more aggressive when you're top tier but still be wary of over-extending. If all else fails, get up some speed and use your bulk to ram them, that's quite fun.

 

Good luck. :honoring:



komunistu33 #3 Posted 04 December 2017 - 04:32 AM

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I would trade GLD for Optics but the gun handling is just.. SO BAD, it's atrocious. Heh, I managed, EVENTUALLY, to get from 0% WR(I was stuck there for way too long) to 40%, 50%, and now 55%. I started playing as a sniping c**t and it seems to work out great. 

Strappster #4 Posted 04 December 2017 - 05:16 AM

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View Postkomunistu33, on 04 December 2017 - 03:32 AM, said:

I would trade GLD for Optics but the gun handling is just.. SO BAD, it's atrocious. Heh, I managed, EVENTUALLY, to get from 0% WR(I was stuck there for way too long) to 40%, 50%, and now 55%. I started playing as a sniping c**t and it seems to work out great. 

 

I'm glad you've found a way to get it working, it's not such a bad tank really. But you know that a GLD does nothing to assist with gun handling, right? The bonus is only to your aim time when the gun is stationary so at best you're saving 0.21s, which is immaterial if you're pew-pewing because you can be fully aimed by the time you've reloaded without the GLD.

 

Still, if you're happy then you're happy so whatever. :B



Excavatus #5 Posted 04 December 2017 - 08:24 AM

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panther is just an HP box to farm for people.. even worse in current MM.

as like many other german tanks, you are very prone to engine and ammorack damage.

gun look cool, but when you are stationary.. and that pathetic alpha will not make people afraid.

you are too big for hiding in bushes for sniping. it turns like a battle ship, and accelerates like a 3 year old on a bike

so yes.. I played that garbage.. I had great games in it from time to time..

But in general, with the current MM and current powercreep tanks.. it is dead..

for sometime in the past.. panther was very good.. like FCM.. now it is dead.. like FCM

 



komunistu33 #6 Posted 04 December 2017 - 03:41 PM

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View PostStrappster, on 04 December 2017 - 05:16 AM, said:

 

I'm glad you've found a way to get it working, it's not such a bad tank really. But you know that a GLD does nothing to assist with gun handling, right? The bonus is only to your aim time when the gun is stationary so at best you're saving 0.21s, which is immaterial if you're pew-pewing because you can be fully aimed by the time you've reloaded without the GLD.

 

Still, if you're happy then you're happy so whatever. :B

 

Welp, replaced GLD with CO and it's a beast, haha. Thanks for the advice, just got my 2nd mark. :teethhappy:

brumbarr #7 Posted 04 December 2017 - 05:18 PM

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Idk man, objectivly, I cant say the tank is good. But I am getting the results, it just kinda works. yeah, yo have no alpha. Gun handling isnt great but good enough. I think the tank is fine, its my best performing tier7 tank ever.

Here is my loadout:

Posted Image

 

And stats:

 

Posted Image

 

 

82% MoE after 40 games hype.



ares354 #8 Posted 04 December 2017 - 05:33 PM

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Panther dont fit its role, its WG fault.

Tank is forced by armor and camo to stay back and snipe. Gun is good with acc and pen, but dmg is not, to take shoots of opportunity. As tier 7 you do 135 dmg, its way to low. WG need to buff it to 17 pounder level, or STRV m42, to have 150 dmg per shoot. Like look on this; 88L56 do 220 dmg, 88L71 do 240, 88 L100 do 240,, they should buff it to 260. Same with 75 mm gun,, L70 do 135, L100 should do 150.

They should not add more  armor, but they should buff mobility and gun handling to make it best support MT of this tier, its only thing this tank will do well. ITs way to slow, ground resistance buff, and view range should be top with T20. Its tall tank, this make no sense to have 380 view range.

WG logic; if you are tall you have less camo then smaller tanks, ok. But if you are tall ,that dont mean you will get high view range, this make no sense. And dont give me balance reason thing.

brumbarr #9 Posted 04 December 2017 - 05:36 PM

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View Postares354, on 04 December 2017 - 05:33 PM, said:

Panther dont fit its role, its WG fault.

Tank is forced by armor and camo to stay back and snipe. Gun is good with acc and pen, but dmg is not, to take shoots of opportunity. As tier 7 you do 135 dmg, its way to low. WG need to buff it to 17 pounder level, or STRV m42, to have 150 dmg per shoot. Like look on this; 88L56 do 220 dmg, 88L71 do 240, 88 L100 do 240,, they should buff it to 260. Same with 75 mm gun,, L70 do 135, L100 should do 150.

They should not add more  armor, but they should buff mobility and gun handling to make it best support MT of this tier, its only thing this tank will do well. ITs way to slow, ground resistance buff, and view range should be top with T20. Its tall tank, this make no sense to have 380 view range.

WG logic; if you are tall you have less camo then smaller tanks, ok. But if you are tall ,that dont mean you will get high view range, this make no sense. And dont give me balance reason thing.

 

If you are sniping in the panther, you are doign it wrong. 

ares354 #10 Posted 04 December 2017 - 06:42 PM

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View Postbrumbarr, on 04 December 2017 - 05:36 PM, said:

 

If you are sniping in the panther, you are doign it wrong. 

 

Yes, in tier 9 I should use armor or trade...

Panther is suport, and lame one. 135 is nothing. I dont use food like u.

brumbarr #11 Posted 04 December 2017 - 06:52 PM

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View Postares354, on 04 December 2017 - 06:42 PM, said:

 

Yes, in tier 9 I should use armor or trade...

Panther is suport, and lame one. 135 is nothing. I dont use food like u.

 

Support doesnt mine sniping. And no tank has a set role you should always play. Playing as support only is a mistake.

 

And sure dude, food is going to make soo much difference.



ares354 #12 Posted 04 December 2017 - 07:01 PM

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View Postbrumbarr, on 04 December 2017 - 06:52 PM, said:

 

Support doesnt mine sniping. And no tank has a set role you should always play. Playing as support only is a mistake.

 

And sure dude, food is going to make soo much difference.

 

Not all drive with food, and again you ignore something.

WHY WG stoped add dmg per shoot with longer and longer barrel. As I showed you; 75 L48 110 dmg, L70 135 dmg, L100 135, should be 150 at least.. This and buff to mobility a bit, Panther wont be change much still same tank, but much better. 135 dmg is just way to low.

Same should be done with Panther 2, 260 dmg per shoot and more mobility, to be true support tank, and if need be flanker or what you want.

brumbarr #13 Posted 04 December 2017 - 07:28 PM

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View Postares354, on 04 December 2017 - 07:01 PM, said:

 

Not all drive with food, and again you ignore something.

WHY WG stoped add dmg per shoot with longer and longer barrel. As I showed you; 75 L48 110 dmg, L70 135 dmg, L100 135, should be 150 at least.. This and buff to mobility a bit, Panther wont be change much still same tank, but much better. 135 dmg is just way to low.

Same should be done with Panther 2, 260 dmg per shoot and more mobility, to be true support tank, and if need be flanker or what you want.

 

Using food wont make it a completely different tank. So it really doesnt matter for comparison sake.

135, 150, wont make a difference.

And the mobility is also fine ,they are pretty fast, going 50jph pretty easily.

The tank is fine. No need to buff it.


Edited by brumbarr, 04 December 2017 - 07:29 PM.


ares354 #14 Posted 04 December 2017 - 07:43 PM

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View Postbrumbarr, on 04 December 2017 - 07:28 PM, said:

 

Using food wont make it a completely different tank. So it really doesnt matter for comparison sake.

135, 150, wont make a difference.

And the mobility is also fine ,they are pretty fast, going 50jph pretty easily.

The tank is fine. No need to buff it.

 

It will make, sometimes is matter of shoot less to kill, less time you need to expose big tank like this. 135, 150 make difference, in same way as 220 vs 240 do.

IF you use food you have everything better, 10% better.

Mobility is fine ? vs what ? You are slower then T20, Comet, Leo, T34/100, A44, VK DB. Only Chi Ri is slower. KV 13 with superior armor is faster. Panther 1 is slow in compere to rest of MT of his tier.

Tank is fine, and panther 2 is fine, people dont play them much, coz those tanks sucks hard. People dont play them for good reason, even if E50m is so colled beast.

Havenless #15 Posted 04 December 2017 - 07:45 PM

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View Postares354, on 04 December 2017 - 09:43 PM, said:

 

It will make, sometimes is matter of shoot less to kill, less time you need to expose big tank like this. 135, 150 make difference, in same way as 220 vs 240 do.

IF you use food you have everything better, 10% better.

Mobility is fine ? vs what ? You are slower then T20, Comet, Leo, T34/100, A44, VK DB. Only Chi Ri is slower. KV 13 with superior armor is faster. Panther 1 is slow in compere to rest of MT of his tier.

Tank is fine, and panther 2 is fine, people dont play them much, coz those tanks sucks hard. People dont play them for good reason, even if E50m is so colled beast.

 

Tbh you should uninstall the game.



samuelx43a #16 Posted 04 December 2017 - 07:50 PM

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lolwat? panther I is perfectly fine, I quite enjoyed playing it, it is an excelent tier VII imo, and to be honest, it has the best freaking pen of all the medium tanks at that tier, something that I love

brumbarr #17 Posted 04 December 2017 - 07:56 PM

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View Postares354, on 04 December 2017 - 07:43 PM, said:

 

IF you use food you have everything better, 10% better.
 

No, everything is 4.6% better.

And it doenst matter, I play every other tank with food, so its only a fair comparison if I use food on the panther too. 



komunistu33 #18 Posted 04 December 2017 - 08:06 PM

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View Postbrumbarr, on 04 December 2017 - 07:56 PM, said:

No, everything is 4.6% better.

And it doenst matter, I play every other tank with food, so its only a fair comparison if I use food on the panther too. 

 

I played a game with food, I'm on a standard account and I think I made a small profit (~5-7k IIRC) but that was without firing a single prem round and also doing a lot of damage and spotting. With food I got my accuracy down to 0.29 but most importantly is the VR (up to ~480 or so) which is incredible at tier 7 and it adds a lot of assist damage. I'm up to 90% on marks, might use food a couple of games and see if I can cut even. 

HaZardeur #19 Posted 04 December 2017 - 08:12 PM

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View Postares354, on 04 December 2017 - 07:43 PM, said:

 

even if E50m is so colled beast.

 

First I was:

 

 

but that changed to:

 

 

 


Edited by HaZardeur, 04 December 2017 - 08:14 PM.


TungstenHitman #20 Posted 04 December 2017 - 08:18 PM

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Ya I found it a big disappointment, WG haven't done this legendary tank any justice and it's a bit sh** tbh. I didn't mind it too much and probably lucked my way through the grind with a 55% win rate, 116 battles, 139 kills, died 66 times. How did I play it? pfff... was never sure either tbh and it gets even better the Panther2 but at least that takes a vstab. The problem with Panther I found was the combination of pis* poor alpha and sh** aim time/soft stats. Now it has amazing accuracy on paper as you say and if you find some sack of a target sitting out on a hill for 3 hours and you right click lock that gun in place and give it 2-3 seconds to fully aim, ya it will land a shot BUT, even at that its only for 135 alpha which is complete and utter sh**, a problem that gets worse with the Panther2. You will really need to be landing 3 shots for every 1 shot you take. Obviously you are trying to take no shots but when you land 135 and have a fast reload the temptation is to take another shot and end up eating 400+ from an IS3 that should have no business hitting your cuppola from 400 meters but it does because reasons. As for bouncing and missing fully aimed shots, enjoy, you can also expect this to happen in a perfect hull down position and have a KV2 driving full speed at range in the open, without stopping, turn its turret and 1 shot kill you somehow, don't take any notice of that, this is WoT and will happen lol.

Equipment layout I went with was, rammer optics and binocs, played it a like stalking pervert sitting in a bush where map allowed and at least with its healthy view range, got a sh** load of spotting assist, then opened up with a volley from that mighty 135 alpha gun vs tier9, great fun really I swear!!







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