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IS LTs A THING OF THE PAST.... "No more spotting"


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MetalMicky #1 Posted 05 December 2017 - 12:58 PM

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Hi ALL, On recently watching a "CLAUS Kellerman" YouTube video about LTs. He remarked about the way LTs are being matched up as the TOP Tier. Or finding the LTs being over matched and there roles becoming less of a SPOTTING role, and more of an attacking role. Pointing out that is some cases more than often, your LTs has far better fire power than the MTs behind you, and then having them ping you to go spot for them???

The LTs are also being kitted out with VS, Rammers, optics, rather than Binocs, camo nets, etc. As there role seems to be changing from spotting to flanking. I've found the amount of time I've swapped out my LTs with optics,VS, Rammers on the Higher Tiers 7 onwards is becoming the normal.

 

Just wondering what you views are with the LTs of todays game play?

 

Respect to ALL, Cheers :) 


Edited by MetalMicky, 05 December 2017 - 12:59 PM.


SuperOlsson #2 Posted 05 December 2017 - 01:05 PM

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There are a few occasions and a select few maps where spotting is really good for winning, but generally playing the scout role includes you relying on teammates, which typically is mostly useful if you're trying to get yourself killed. If i can choose between scouting or dishing out the damage myself the latter is the way to go with LTs.

Fighto #3 Posted 05 December 2017 - 01:06 PM

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Alot of  players are window licking simpletons and have zero idea on how to take advantage of a good a scout. Most new scouts i get I have at least blue stats in but I will not spot unless its for my platoon or to help ME get a win, far to many times I have I spotted 5+ tanks and ended up with 50 spotting damage.

anonym_kL7qtn3e52MB #4 Posted 05 December 2017 - 01:08 PM

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I play my LT's with VS, Optics and Vents mostly.

Most of the time I start with spotting and change up to flanking during a round.

 

Some are just not suited to play like a spotter. I hate doing that with the French line for instance.

 



Balc0ra #5 Posted 05 December 2017 - 01:11 PM

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Simple reason... Assist = no WN8. And spotting xp gives way way less XP vs damage. Unless you are credit farming that is, then it's still viable. But for most. Damage just means a faster grind. Most LT's after the LT changes feel more useless in a +2 game and will spot vs damage farming as they lost lots of pen. But as top tier? I've even seen them ask lower tier meds to spot. So if I see top tier LT's on my team. I don't expect much early intel. Usually get it right. Even more so if you have Type 64's as top tier.

Edited by Balc0ra, 05 December 2017 - 01:12 PM.


MrClark56 #6 Posted 05 December 2017 - 01:13 PM

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simply said. NO

 

I have had my [edited]handed to me by some LTs, hiding in some bushes spotting for the hard hitters.. it is not nice...

 

but then when i play LT i get city maps...

 

I think LTs are in the place, but their role changes with the map, so it is up to us to determine how to play it effectively.



LeGod7 #7 Posted 05 December 2017 - 01:15 PM

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Light tanks should not have camo nets ever IMO, lights have excellent mobility and camo on the move, that should be used, not camping a bush hoping people will drive towards you.

 

Plus they have always been flankers and exploiters of gaps, again that is why they have excellent mobility and on the move camo, so they can slip through the lines and appear in annoying positions. 

 

Good light play should never just be about spotting, people over simplify it to that and that reputation comes from OP bush locations like on Malinovka or Prohk where people sit still doing nothing but just rack up 6-7k spotting damage.  They then think because of those broken map locations, that lights should be doing that all the time. 

 

Simple things like playing a proper support role, getting heavies and TDs to turn towards you so your teammates have easy shots, tracking things, finding lone heavies and TDs to circle to death, etc. that is proper light play.

 

Sitting in a bush at E1 on Prohk with a camo net and binos is stupidly easy, that is not good light play, that is just abusing an overpowered map spot. Good light tank play is when you've been all over the map, done your initial 'intelligence' spot so the team knows where the enemy is going, supported your team mates where they are strong be it open field or city street, got some damage in, helped spot for the push, helped support your long reload tanks from getting rushed, countered the enemy lights and then you finish the game with a healthy amount of damage and assistance damage.

 

You have the fastest and stealthiest tanks in the game, that means you can be wherever your team needs something, be it spots, a distraction, flanking shots or just a threat. Even just helping a big slow heavy or TD with a push is an important role, stopping them getting rushed or circled can make a difference when winning a game.  Many a game I have played a heavy and wished my lights hadn't thrown their tanks away early on so I had someone with good view range to support me and watch my back.

 

They are also some of the most powerful mid to late game tanks as well. 

 


Edited by LeGod7, 05 December 2017 - 01:19 PM.


juicyfruity #8 Posted 05 December 2017 - 01:17 PM

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I've had way too many games where I've lit up most the enemy team and got zero spotting damage. Teams would rather shoot team mates or buildings it seems.

 



HassenderZerhacker #9 Posted 05 December 2017 - 01:19 PM

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less and less maps allow passive spotting, it's really sad.

 

WoT is drifting further and further from normal use of tanks - mortar tanks (arty) are used to directly damage other tanks and spotting is done by driving around fast just near the enemy guns... complete nonsense.


Edited by HassenderZerhacker, 05 December 2017 - 01:20 PM.


HassenderZerhacker #10 Posted 05 December 2017 - 01:21 PM

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View Postjuicyfruity, on 05 December 2017 - 01:17 PM, said:

I've had way too many games where I've lit up most the enemy team and got zero spotting damage. Teams would rather shoot team mates or buildings it seems.

 

yes, lol. I got awarded patrol duty and recon medals and had just 150 spot damage, lol.

LeGod7 #11 Posted 05 December 2017 - 01:26 PM

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View PostHassenderZerhacker, on 05 December 2017 - 01:19 PM, said:

less and less maps allow passive spotting, it's really sad.

 

WoT is drifting further and further from normal use of tanks - mortar tanks (arty) are used to directly damage other tanks and spotting is done by driving around fast just near the enemy guns... complete nonsense.

 

Is it?

 

Not sad IMO, passive spotting is just over the top abuse of a game mechanic IMO, I wouldn't want to see more E1 on Prohk bushes in the game. 

 

We need better maps, bigger maps and maps that aren't 2/3 isolated corridors that you can't cross fire into, but I don't think we need more OP passive spotting bushes seeing as passive spotting is so easy.

 

Redshire doesn't have bushes like that, it has some bush spotting locations, but they are more risky and only work at certain times, Redshire is a great map for light tanks though. 



kaneloon #12 Posted 05 December 2017 - 01:47 PM

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One problem is the view range : now enemy scouts will spot each other 5 seconds after the start of the battle.
They won t have time to hide, their targets will be out of range of their team and the arty will be still moving, trying to hide.
So they switch to a damage dealer mode.


Cobra6 #13 Posted 05 December 2017 - 01:57 PM

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Problem is not the matchmaking, it's the fact that all players are getting better and better crews with more viewrange. However, Wargaming does not compensate for this in the camo values for light tanks so they get spotted further and further away, even at lower tiers now.

 

And at the same time Wargaming is doing everything in it's power to make light tank guns useless at range as well with terrible premium penetration and bigger shell penetration drop-off over range.

 

If light tanks get matches as any other class in the game, their guns should be as competitive as any other class in the game, not significantly worse.

 

Cobra 6


Edited by Cobra6, 05 December 2017 - 01:58 PM.


Balc0ra #14 Posted 05 December 2017 - 02:02 PM

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View PostCobra6, on 05 December 2017 - 01:57 PM, said:

Problem is not the matchmaking, it's the fact that all players are getting better and better crews with more viewrange. However, Wargaming does not compensate for this in the camo values for light tanks so they get spotted further and further away, even at lower tiers now.

 

And at the same time Wargaming is doing everything in it's power to make light tank guns useless at range as well with terrible premium penetration and bigger shell penetration drop-off over range.

 

If light tanks get matches as any other class in the game, their guns should be as competitive as any other class in the game, not significantly worse.

 

Cobra 6

 

Could be. But most still do damage farming over assist farming in their LT's, even as top tier. And regardless of what others might do or spot before them or not.  As it's still more rewarding that way for most. It would fix equally much if they gave XP bonuses for spotting assist for LT's vs other classes. So they would be more inclined to do their role. As many feel getting 600 xp for 8K spotting is a bad game, when the tier X med doing 2000 damage and yolo died got more xp then you.

Edited by Balc0ra, 05 December 2017 - 02:03 PM.


pecopad #15 Posted 05 December 2017 - 02:25 PM

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The secret appears to be to survive into late game.... problem is the teams melting...

 

Spotting only works when TD's go sniping where there are tanks, most of the times they just sit and wait to the end game to get one or two shots. (if you survive has a light the trick is to take advantage of this and spot for them)

 

Also, cammo on e25 and Swedish TD's should be nerfed... or just release a Swedish light....

 

6th sense on Lights, IMHO, should be immediate, not after 3 secs... that would be a good advantage for the Lights


Edited by pecopad, 05 December 2017 - 02:27 PM.


Fighto #16 Posted 05 December 2017 - 02:27 PM

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View Postpecopad, on 05 December 2017 - 01:25 PM, said:

The secret appears to be to survive into late game.... problem is the teams melting...

 

Spotting only works when TD's go sniping where there are tanks, most of the times they just sit and wait to the end game to get one or two shots. (if you survive has a light the trick is to take advantage of this and spot for them)

 

Also, cammo on e25 and Swedish TD's should be nerfed... or just release a Swedish light....

 

Ya when you survive your  a camping noob even if you covered 4-5km, dying like a retard is fine though.

pecopad #17 Posted 05 December 2017 - 02:32 PM

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View PostFighto, on 05 December 2017 - 02:27 PM, said:

 

Ya when you survive your  a camping noob even if you covered 4-5km, dying like a retard is fine though.

 

And when they ask you to spot a tank, you do it, light the tank and the guy does not shoot....

 

Another thing that p*** me off is when you are spotting, a tank yolo's at your position, and instead of shooting the yolo tank, the others just shoot the tanks you have lit, not the one you are asking them to shoot...

 

But its not just others fault, I see too much lights going to the same places, leaving flanks unspotted. Or just going over the hills and getting killed in under a minute...

 

There are always 1 or 2 light tanks that die on the countdown... when the game starts  I look and there are always 1 or 2 light tanks missing on my team ...:(


Edited by pecopad, 05 December 2017 - 02:35 PM.


Cobra6 #18 Posted 05 December 2017 - 02:43 PM

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Thing is, everyone expects lights to do spotting damage, in other words to rely entire on their team to actually do the right thing and win the match by shooting what you spot which I can tell you from experience, doesn't work. The majority of players in this game simply do not have a clue and are bad at it and this creates a big problem for light tanks.

Wargaming is doing their best to make their guns as unsuitable for long range engagement as possible to force them to act as the eyes of the team, but when the team does not use the spots provided and is consistently positioning themselves wrong on maps it is an exercise in frustration for a good light tank driver.

When my team fails to make use of my spotting damage I want to be able to influence the battle myself as a good player and engage targets at range as I don't have armour to protect me in a brawl.

 

This is why you will see good players asking Wargaming to make sure that light tanks can carry their weight, themselves, when needed and not having to rely on your team. Just like any other class in the game.

 

Light tanks effectively are long range vehicles, just like TD's, everything is geared towards that. Camouflage, good viewrange, good mobility, but unlike TD's light tanks get comparatively atrocious penetration so they can't actually properly work at range. This is wrong and should be addressed.

 

If a heavy tank player is playing their vehicle wrong: Being in the open and at long range, but the light tank vehicle is playing their vehicle right: Using viewrange and camo, the heavy tank player should lose that engagement. But that is not how it is in WoT because the heavy tank player is being protected artificially by the atrocious penetration at range of light tanks and the light tank has a very hard time properly engaging said heavy tank.

No, the light tank needs to close to brawling range throwing away all his class's advantages while giving all the advantages to the heavy tank in return just to try and damage the heavy tank properly. This is wrong to be enforced this way.

 

Cobra 6


Edited by Cobra6, 05 December 2017 - 02:52 PM.


THE_JACK_OF_HEARTS #19 Posted 05 December 2017 - 02:48 PM

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hey Cobra.

                     Saw your question today being answered on ageing jedis  Q and A.



suvicze #20 Posted 05 December 2017 - 02:49 PM

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Depends on the map and MM for me. If I am top tier in a light tank especially in something like 13/90 then spotting for the team is at the bottom of the list for me unless it is something like malinovka. I might do some initial spotting run while keeping myself safe but thats it. I mostly switched to this practice from experience though. When you are sitting in good position and spotting half the enemy team while your tanks are sitting out of render range yelling at you to spot than they can go [edited]themselves. I will simply go spot for myself and kill the targets myself or let them spot for me and be a meatshield while I rack up the damage from safe distance in the early/mid game when they cant do it themselves. I mean in majority of my games  I am one of the top direct damage dealer if not the top on the team while playing LT. If I can be top damage dealer in LT with shitty gun while majority of my team struggle to do half of my damage then sorry but I wont depend on these maggots for spotting damage and do it myself.




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